6.5 creedmoor – reloader 15 vs factory load

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

Out on the range today I will test two different loads loaded with Reloader 15 putting it up against Hornady Factory ammunition. This started to just find a light load for the medium range distance 100 to 300 yards with Reloader 15 but my buddy showed up with Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor 140gr factory rounds and we decided to make an impromptu video with the gopro.

DIES USED:
The loads were constructed with Redding Competition Dies and lightly crimped with the Redding tape crimp die that is part of the set.

C.O.A.L for loads 1 & 2 — 2.790

1st Load
Bullet — 107gr Sierra Match King
Powder — Reloader 15 — 40.5gr
Primer — S&B Large Rifle Primer
Case — Hornady

2nd Load
Bullet — 109gr Lapua Scenar
Powder — Reloader 15 — 40.5gr
Primer — S&B Large Rifle Primer
Case — Hornady

3rd Factory Load
Hornady 140gr ELD Match

https://youtu.be/r8n2qkFzrCs

[hounddawg]

well you just sold a pound of RL15, and a box of 109 Lapuas. I have a new 30 inch barrel that is giving me great 100 - 300 yard groups but I have been struggling to get the ES and SD's down for longer ranges. I am going to do a workup with that combo in my .260 Rem. My old barrel would not shoot the light stuff worth a damn but never tried them in the new one

BTW I subscribed to your channel, great video

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

Hounddawg

Glad it was of some use for you. I will be testing this load out to 200 and 300 yards also.

[hounddawg]

Question on the RL 15. The main reason I have avoided the RL series for my match loads is the reported temp insensitivity. I shoot at temps from low 40's to 100 + . I find Varget and H 4350 give me very stable performance Dec through August with minimal tweaks. Do you use different loads at different temps? Regardless of that those velocities were nice

I have some 50 or more 107 SMK's and a jug of Varget which is real close to RL 15. I might just run a test to see if this barrel likes a light bullet. It's a 8 twist

Another question was that .459 group factory ammo or handloads ? I am old and easily confused at times.

Also on the first group have you done a seating depth test. I would bet twenty five rounds you can tune that vertical out with seating depth. For a load that gives you a ES of 15 I think it would be worth exploring

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

I have not tested for temp sensitivity in 6.5 creedmoor but I have in 308 with Reloader 15. I was not able to tell much of a difference in the range of 50 -106 degrees temps. The 106 was the hottest temp day we have had in a long time. Though I will say my 308 loads were a full grain below max loads. RL-15 is temp sensitive but my opinion is it is much more sensitive at or close to max loads.

[Mr.RevolverGuy]

Oh an on the small group yes those were my reloads with the Lapua.

[Unclenick]

The temperature sensitivity issue came up for the military which loaded M118LR with Reloader 15. But that was in the desert in Iraq, where it could get to 120°F. Apparently, there were pressure signs then, so Federal went to IMR4064 for Mk.316 mod.0 sniper ammunition, as they'd had good experience with it. It has always had good immunity to increasing pressure and temperature. They just don't affect it as much as some other powders, and that's due to its grain perforation geometry. The raw material is the same as IMR4895, but, the grain geometry is different.

Twenty-five years ago, Dave Milosovich demonstrated this by loading 180 grain bullets in .308 Win to matching velocities from a bolt gun. 2200 fps took more 4895 than 4064, suggesting 4895 was slower. Same with 2300 fps, but the difference was smaller. 2400 fps took the same amount of both powders (within 0.1 grains). 2500 fps took less 4895 than 4064, suggesting the roles had reversed and 4064 was now slower. 2550 fps and the difference got bigger.

There are a couple of interesting lessons about powder in that experiment. One is that pressure and temperature don't affect all powders equally; at least, not in certain ranges. Starting from the 2200 fps load, a point in the characteristic curve of 4064 had been reached where it took more powder to gain each additional fps than was needed with 4895, where at lower temperature and pressure, it took less. This is all despite the fact the total energy content per grain is close to the same for both powders.

The other is just the reminder that burn rates are figured under one set of standard conditions for comparison and that those conditions are not what you have in your gun. As gun pressures and temperatures change, which powder is the faster burning of any two can change order. It clearly did in the experiment. Burn rate charts are therefore only vaguely useful at guessing which powder may be appropriate for which application, but they don't tell you anything specific about what sort of charge weight you are going to wind up with, much less that you can use two powders interchangeably, as some have incorrectly assumed.

BTW, Varget, which was designed to compete with 4064 and which does have temperature stabilizing additives, gains even fewer fps per grain in that upper pressure range than 4064. It is why some people find it wonderfully consistent and others can't get it to shoot well, as they can't get enough velocity out of it to reach their particular gun's sweet spot.

[jmr40]

A powder that is resistant to temperature changes in one cartridge, may not be as resistant in another. Reloder 15 is generally considered one of the better powders in extreme temps in 308. I've not seen any data to say how it works in 6.5 CM.

But regardless of that I believe there are better powder options for the 6.5 than RL 15. I've used it in my 308 with good success. But I've also gotten good results from several powders in 308. I've settled on Varget for 308 for really unexplained reasons. It does work, but so do several others.

[Bfglowkey]

If you looking for a good, temp stable powder from the RL line to use in the 6.5 Creed...RL 16 is amazing for all pills up to 147. If you want to push the 140-147 line at even higher speeds..RL 26. Also very temp tolerant. The SDs and ES with RL 16 is amazing to boot in the nodes.

[Unclenick]

Well, one reason Varget is so popular in the. 308 Win is that is a cartridge in which that powder's temperature compensation works really well. As near as I can discern, it doesn't do much better than any other powder in. 223.Rem. Powder behavior is complex.

The place I like Varget is in 30-06. The tendency to raise pressure and velocity gradually let's me get better case fill with it than I can with a number of other powders that are suitable for the Garand. This is with 168-grain and heavier match bullets. It works a treat with 175-grain SMK's, though for 1000-yard shooting I can load it rather higher than I care to mention in conjunction with a vented gas plug in the old warhorse.

[hounddawg]

@Bfglowkey
Some of the guys at the club have been using 16 in various flavor 6.5's

@ Unclenick

Varget is a versatile powder. It may not give the best performance velocity wise but it will always be consistent.

Well thanks to this thread I have probably 2500 various .264 bullets but I am going to have to try those Lapua's . Great ballistics. I suppose it is better to have bullets in times of no money than money in times of no bullets

[T. O'Heir]

That'd be an apples and oranges comparison. If you want to compare things, you need to compare 'like' things. A Hornady 140's MV is 2695 FPS. A 107 with 40.3 of Reloader 15 is running approximately 3,000 FPS.
And, of course, Hornady doesn't publish what powder they use. Mind you, Alliant has yet to publish 6.5 Creedmoor data on their site at all.

[m&p45acp10+1]

Reloaded 15 and 130 ELD Match is one of the best loads I have ever tested. Wi5h 140 grain bullets it gave easy sub MOA groups. Most being half to three quarter inch outside to outside groups. 8208 gave smaller groups at the cost of a couple hundred FPS of muzzle velocity.

[hounddawg]

For the OP , tried any H4350 yet? Excellent temp stability. I bought a pound awhile back to try in my .260 Rem but have not yet. H4350 and RL16/17 seem to be the go to's for the 6.5 CM guys in this area

[Rimfire5]

My two 6.5 Creedmoors like IMR4350.
One of the two shoots IMR4451 Enduron a bit more accurately than IMR4350.
Both of them shoot more accurately with the slower powders like IMR4350 and IMR4451 than with the standard .308 powders like IMR4064, H4895, RL-15 or Varget.

[std7mag]

So, handload 107gr MatchKings and 109 gr Scenars vs 140gr factory loads.

Kinda like comparing horse apples to deer scat....
Which one is different ??