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Old February 21, 2017, 05:44 PM   #51
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.....WOW! Snowflakes...
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Old February 21, 2017, 05:48 PM   #52
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I got lost in all the shooting skirmishes.
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Old February 21, 2017, 06:19 PM   #53
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Cheaperrooter, not going to lie I only skimmed your long post, and skimmed the rest of the thread in general, but I think there is plenty of blame on both sides. Post count isn't everything, but as a member of many forums regarding many topics, within reason when you are new and have a low post count it takes time to build a reutation. I am by no means an expert, honestly it sounds like we're probably on a similar knowledge and skills level when it comes to firearms. I actually just started shooting 4 years ago but dove headlong into it and immersed myself in information and the knowledge of others. This forum has been an awesome source of learning for me. Like every forum, think are people you won't get along great with, but that's life and I haven't found that to be that bad on TFL.

While your complaint in your first thread was certainly valid, the tone was a bit confrontational at first at least as I perceived it, and I think that kind of got things of on he wrong foot. It definitely wasn't a typical first post, not that it had to be, just stating a fact. Also, the fact that your first two posts are complaining about 2 popular companies probably put some people off. Again, not saying they aren't valid complaints, just how things can be percieved. Add in the misunderstandings in what was going on (people thinking you had done a trigger job, etc.) and it'd easy to see why things got heated. I don't think posting a long diatribe really helped, but it's your prerogative.
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Old February 21, 2017, 06:31 PM   #54
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Quote:
, just how things can be percieved.
And, unfortunately, perception can sometimes trump reality.

Quote:
I don't think posting a long diatribe really helped,
How can you say that? I read it twice and thought it was brilliant!
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Old February 21, 2017, 06:52 PM   #55
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You may want to go back, re-read all your posts, and evaluate yourself from an outside perspective... Then you may start to understand why so many are responding to you in the way that they are.
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Old February 21, 2017, 06:53 PM   #56
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Before this one gets closed (and there are multiple valid reasons to do so), I'd like to mention a couple things, to everyone.

IF someone posts something that upsets you, please do not waste bandwidth and everyone's time having a spat in the open forums. Take it to PMs, and if you need to, take it to the moderators!

There is a mechanism for reporting posts, USE IT, please.

Also, there is a built in difficulty recognizing humor and sarcasm here. Misunderstandings will happen but using the smilies or just a simple declarative statement (sarcasm intentional) will avoid a lot of them.

Take a bit and review forum rules about insults, personal attacks, off topic rants and everything else.

Personally, I don't care if you have 40 posts, or 40,000 if you can't make your explanation in a way I can understand, then simply, you aren't making sense (to me).

Of course you know what you're talking about, but if I don't get it, then you "don't know what your talking about". It works both ways.

A mechanical question was asked in the OP. IF we can stay focused on that, there is room for discussion. IF not, then we're done.
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Old February 21, 2017, 07:15 PM   #57
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I'd like the OP to post pictures, I know that it isn't very easy to post pics here but I feel it might help clear lots of stuff up.

I'm interested in the outcome, I'm curious. My initial reaction was it was an AR10 charging handle, but think that would be obvious.
It is entirely possible that the OP got a counterfeit charging handle. It happens. Amazon has lots of counterfeit items.

Being that the BCM gunfighter is one of the top chargers, I wouldn't expect it to be defective. One thing that everyone says about BCM is the QC of the products is top notch. I don't own anything from BCM, but I've done enough inquiries over the years to know.
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Old February 21, 2017, 07:53 PM   #58
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I didn't read that but am pretty sure I'm better off for it.
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Old February 21, 2017, 08:25 PM   #59
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Please don't misconstrue, what I just wrote has nothing to do with defending myself, I hope it didn't come across is that? No, this is a general summation of what's going wrong and the downfall of all threads in all forums in America.

Pop in to any forum and look at how newbies are treated. It's universal thing. This had nothing to do with my defense guys. That's way over and really there wasn't a whole lot going on to that thread that I had to defend.

44 mag, good idea about putting things in parentheses that says pun intended or of course I'm being facetious at the end.

Disagree with you as to why you think the thread should be closed, I don't think it's gotten out of hand.

if every time there's a disagreement and the thread is closed, then things never have a chance to work out fully. I like the fact that this has been left open because in the process of it?

I made friends out of 2 that wasn't looking good initially. Because the thread was left open to allow everyone to work things out

Because it was left open, myself and Dubchicks worked things out and are smiling. And also I worked out the situation with Bartholomew in understanding he's really more of a joker and wasn't trying to purposely attack me.

That information could not of been gathered if the moderators were fast to lock them up. I think it's obvious when you should lock a thread, this is not one of the circumstances

But most importantly, really, please don't think this is some kind of a diatribe to defend myself, because if you think that, the much bigger issue was completely missed!

And Gludwig? ROTHFLMAO!!!!
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Old February 21, 2017, 08:34 PM   #60
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Bigbl87, very articulate and well written summation, not to sound condescending

But I don't know why anyone thinks, or yourself, I was trashing BCM?? I havent said anything bad about BCM, only good. Someone else mentioned me trashing them also.

But that is exactly what happens, people say things like that, then someone else reads your post just now, they pick up on it and think I'm trashing BCM, and it just keeps snowballing,next thing you know, i'm the guy that hates BCM.

But when in reality, not one bad thing left my lips about them still I enjoyed reading what you had to say
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Old February 21, 2017, 09:04 PM   #61
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I haven't read the whole thread. I'm not going to, either. I will, however, point out a couple of, well, . . . what I consider to be key points of 44 AMP's earlier post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP
. . . . IF someone posts something that upsets you, please do not waste bandwidth and everyone's time having a spat in the open forums. Take it to PMs, and if you need to, take it to the moderators!

There is a mechanism for reporting posts, USE IT, please. . . . .

Take a bit and review forum rules about insults, personal attacks, off topic rants and everything else. . . . .

A mechanical question was asked in the OP. IF we can stay focused on that, there is room for discussion. IF not, then we're done.
TFL has a very specific focus. We are dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearm ownership. It says so at the top of the forum rules page. To paraphrase Charles Emerson Winchester, "We do one thing, we do it well, and then we move on." In this thread, that one thing is the OP's mechanical question. Either do that, or move on.
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Old February 21, 2017, 09:04 PM   #62
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Time to get back on topic.

I didn't read your long post since no interest. But I am interested in learning how your BCM charging is causing your problem. Post some pictures. If you have other BCM charging handles, post some side by side pictures. My hunch is 1) the charging is fine, 2) you got a knockoff or more likely 3) your problem is due to some unrelated reason. But if you say its the charging handle and you know what your talking about, then I'd like to know more. With that said, I've never heard of a BCM charging causing this kind of problem. I've read where they failed due to breakage but not this.
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Old February 21, 2017, 09:23 PM   #63
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Good thing I decided at the last second to post this because with all the other stuff going on I completely forgot!

BCM was sent pictures and they responded that I had a lifetime warranty and if I will send it to them and they will send me a new one. Which already kind a new.

This is definitely not a Chinese knock off, if so it's the best looking knock off I've ever seen, fact it costs them so money for the knock off I don't think it's worth it

However Mobuck is very interested in having me send it to him so I will think about it tonight and ponder it and make a decision tomorrow!

As far as posting pictures, I don't think that's going to achieve anything because that's why BCM wanted the pictures and I took eight or nine of them at all different angles and though they didn't say one way or the other I'm sure they would have it had been a counterfeit because they wouldn't have offered me new one for that after seeing the pictures

I guess it would help for you to know that I already tried posting pictures when I started the thread, have a iPhone and I chose library but every time it said file too big file too big a file too big. And it was just a regular every day picture. That was it for me I was in going to rebuild the Empire State building for pictures!
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Old February 21, 2017, 09:40 PM   #64
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Get tapatalk
It makes posting pictures easy
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Old February 21, 2017, 09:41 PM   #65
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Bam


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old February 21, 2017, 11:31 PM   #66
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Many of us are interested in the outcome of this.

It is an odd circumstance for sure, so knowing how and/or why something like a CH can cause this issue would be enlightening.


And It seems we managed to hit the reset on things...

I think TFL is very newbie friendly. While I can ignore a confrontational tone (real or perceived) unless it gets personal, others are a little more sensitive to it.

If we keep things courteous, we should find that all are welcome here.
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Old February 22, 2017, 06:22 AM   #67
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Cheaproot--I think you may have some , well, OK points about the incivility of the internet etc., but to be honest I personally think you may not have thought all this through. Here's why:

You show up on here seeking advice as a "newbie" and some people, like me, actually took the time to read your post carefully. In my case it's rather intriguing because I've never heard of a failure due to a (proper condition and size) charging handle, though anything is possible in the world of AR malfunctions. : ) So I actually took the time to disassemble a couple of my AR's, switch handles, examine parts, drop BCG's etc. in an attempt to try to help you as well as possibly learn something myself in the process. So in essence, myself, and others here invested their time (at no compensation from you) to try to help you. Popping up on a forum is a bit like walking into a LGS and asking for advice--and there are 1,000 gunsmiths there ready to give it to you--but it's pretty darn hard to do that accurately when the weapon in question is not even in hand (no pictures doesn't help either). : )

Personally I simply don't give a rodent's posterior if someone wants to play uppity master armorer lord of all things known to mankind about firearms--because I know that I personally don't really know all that much, so if that's the price of getting expert advice for free--so what IMO. Most of the time, anyone who simply wants to prove he's swinging the biggest set in the jungle generally comes off as a fool anyway--and the ones who REALLY are the experts tend to be rather humble most of the time.

Just my less than 2 cents.
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Old February 22, 2017, 12:07 PM   #68
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Stag, it's called the Dunning - Kruger effect... The less you know, the more you think you know. (Overestimate your ability)

The inverse is also true, the more you know the less you think you know. ( You underestimate your abilities)

It comes down to knowing how much you don't know... Those with less knowledge tend to think they know most of what is entailed by a subject... they don't know enough to realize what they don't know.



As you, I also examined the action of my rifle, and was trying to figure out how it would cause an issue. The only things I can postulate in my head seem unlikely...

So I am interested, as knowing a possible point of failure, even if unlikely is useful info.
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Old February 22, 2017, 12:15 PM   #69
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Quote:
Bigbl87, very articulate and well written summation, not to sound condescending
No offense taken at all. My writing ability is one of my strong suits, so I don't mind hearing it. Got me through grad school, and I ended up as a correctional officer, life is funny like that sometimes, haha.

Like marine6680 said, I'm interested in the outcome. I have a BCM charging handle myself and love it, and I'm trying to figure out how/if it could be causing the issue(s) you're having, as I can't wrap my mind conceptually around how it could be related just based on my knowledge of how an AR functions.
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Old February 22, 2017, 12:37 PM   #70
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Quote:
Stag, it's called the Dunning - Kruger effect... The less you know, the more you think you know. (Overestimate your ability)

The inverse is also true, the more you know the less you think you know. ( You underestimate your abilities)

It comes down to knowing how much you don't know... Those with less knowledge tend to think they know most of what is entailed by a subject... they don't know enough to realize what they don't know.
I think I know what you mean, but maybe I don't really know enough to really know what you mean.
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Old February 22, 2017, 02:29 PM   #71
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Uncle Sam paid me to work on M16s (and some other things) for a few years, and while I am not familiar with the specific BCM product, I do understand a bit about how the rifle works.

And I am STILL trying to figure out how a charging handle could not only cause the described malfunction, but how it could do it in more than one rifle.

The charging handle rides in a fairly narrow track, and it only moves straight back and forth. When you pull back, it pulls on the bolt carrier key, to pull the action open. That's ALL it does.

Quote:
So I just sat there and cycled it manually one after another. Or I tried to. First round would go in, first round would not eject, the second round backed up behind it. Over and over and over again.
This is the problem described. First round chambers normally, then when the charging handle is pulled back, the chambered round does not eject.

IS the chambered round EXTRACTED?? (pulled out of the chamber, to any degree?)

When this happens, how far back in the receiver is the bolt? Is this a matter of the bolt leaves the round entirely in the chamber, or does it pull it partway out then jam?

IF its pulled partway out, is it not ejecting because the bolt has let go of it? Or because its not far enough back to clear the front edge of the ejection port?

How was the first round loaded, with the bolt back? or forward?

IS it POSSIBLE that the charging handle is slipping around the carrier key, and therefore when you pull the bolt open by hand its not opening all the way?
(which, if it were happening, would probably cycle normally when firing)

and please, get some dummy rounds! Once you have found a malfunction, testing with live ammo should not be done for function checking until you believe the problem is cured. Notice I said dummy rounds, not snap caps!

Snap caps CAN result in a "false positive". I once had a situation where there was an ejection issue with live rounds, ONLY one bullet weight & style, snap caps functioned perfectly, but dummy rounds, made to not just the size, but also the weight of live ammo (minus the tiny weight of powder & live primer) recreated the malfunction without the risk of cycling live rounds repeatedly for testing.
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Old February 23, 2017, 01:40 AM   #72
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Quote:
. Personally I simply don't give a rodent's posterior if someone wants to play uppity master armorer lord of all things known to mankind about firearms--because I know that I personally don't really know all that much, so if that's the price of getting expert advice for free--so what IMO. Most of the time, anyone who simply wants to prove he's swinging the biggest set in the jungle generally comes off as a fool anyway--and the ones who REALLY are the experts tend to be rather humble most of the time.
Your point is well taken, but maybe misdirected. I think everyone is still trying to attach that statement to me personally, to say I'm still trying to defend myself or that that whole thing was about the way that I was treated here on this forum and that was NOT the purpose of it.

I'm trying to present the bigger picture, the larger picture, and what you're saying may be true to YOU, but it doesn't bother you. Truth is it didn't bother me either. Things like that never bother me, because I've never been one to bite my tongue and so I would just dish it back.

The question of the day is, and what I was trying to explain in that post, is that it absolutely does bother newbies and after seeing the big birds running around they will have a tendency to just hide and not ever come out and enjoy the forum for what it is.

And that was also an explanation to explain why some people will always just naturally resent and hate a guy like me. Because of the way they view newbies, newbies should keep their mouth shut and when someone like me pops onto a thread and actually says something that's sarcastic, I am hated times 10 versus the senior guy who would have something exact same words

But Dang your description of the uppity type was absolutely hysterical and funny!
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Old February 23, 2017, 01:46 AM   #73
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OK everybody here is what I'm going to do. Before I send the handle back, and if someone can direct me as to the easiest way to post a video, maybe tapatalk if it does videos as well as pictures???

I will make a video showing the handle at many different angles, and then I will go through the process on video. Cycling a good weapon first, inserting the BCM and showing it malfunction, putting the stock handle back in and showing it working fine. I will then do that to two maybe three rifles.

Hopefully that will appease everyone since there seems to be a lot of intrigue over this.

Moebuck has offered to send me a replacement handle if he can't fix it if I'll send it to him. If he can he will send it back if I pay postage. But if he cannot fix it he said he would send me a replacement. But I think the replacement is a normal stock handle and not what I really want.

In other words it would be best for me to deal directly with BCM so I can get a BCM handle in exchange. Or any extra large handle for a scope.

So If anybody out there in this land has a reason that they would like for me to send this to Moebuck because of other interests I am unaware of, speak up now, with the understanding that if it can't be fixed, I can get a brand-new free from BCM and I would need something offered to me of equal value
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Old February 23, 2017, 02:22 AM   #74
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Frankly, Scarlett, I've completely lost interest.
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Old February 23, 2017, 03:26 AM   #75
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I don't think you can upload video to the site... even pics need to be resized and the file size reduced a lot...

YouTube is your best bet.
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