338 Federal

[Marco Califo]

338 Federal is the 308 brass sized for a 338 bullet. I wasn't very interested in this cartridge until I saw that it compares well to 7mm Mag.
Is making 338 Federal brass simply passing 308 brass through the 338 Federal sizing die?
Have you done it?
Is there any need to fire form (fire 308 in a 338 chamber)?

[T. O'Heir]

Supposedly requires fire forming to expand the neck. The brand of brass likely matters too. Some is harder than others.
Midway currently has RCBS 2 die sets on sale at $29.99.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd338federal.jpg
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd308winchester.jpg

[Unclenick]

I just looked at the drawings for both in QuickLOAD. Identical except for the neck. Get one of the Sinclair mandrel die bodies and open them up. Probably a good idea to anneal first if the brass isn't new, never-fired brass.

[Marco Califo]

Thanks Unclenick. Does Quickload yield any data for 338 Federal and WC872 and 200 gr. bullet? I am thinking it may not have WC872 data at all. And that is a very slow powder. Hodgkin data uses all the usual 308 powders, none slower than 4064.

[Gunplummer]

I have stepped up/down with quite a few different cartridges. Looks like an easy one, but never tried it. The only problem I see would be using military brass. Sometimes the brass at the neck is too thick for the new case and has to be reamed or turned.

[math teacher]

Hornady's expander button is football shaped and should also allow you to size 308 cases to 338 Federal without fire forming.

[jmr40]

It shouldn't be a problem making brass from 308. I used to make 338-06 brass from 30-06 brass all the time. It is the same principle.

I wasn't very interested in this cartridge until I saw that it compares well to 7mm Mag.

It doesn't compare well to the 7 mag at all, except in recoil. This is an apples to oranges comparison. With equal bullet weights it matches 30-06 at the muzzle. But the 30-06 easily outclasses it as range increases beyond 50 yards in both trajectory and energy due to much more aerodynamic bullets.

Compared to the 308 it shoots bullets one weight heavier, to about the same speed. In other words it'll shoot 200's at about the same speed as 180's from a 308 offering a slight advantage up to about 200 yards. A 308 outperforms 338 Fed beyond 200 yards. The 338 Fed. will kill stuff at longer ranges, but it fits in a small niche offering slightly better performance than 308 at close range, but not quite matching 30-06.

At less than 200 yards no animal will ever know the difference if hit with a 338 Fed, 308, 30-06, 7 mag or any of about 2 dozen other rounds. The 7 mag and to a slightly lesser extent the 30-06 start offering some advantages beyond 400 yards.

I don't dislike the round, it just fits in a very small niche between cartridges I already have.

[Marco Califo]

JMR40, I read that, and viewed the table here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Federal

[Marco Califo]

Unclenick, thank you.

So, then, I think I would need these:

74901171 5WS Std 7/8-14 Expander Die
7490011 58WS Sinclair Expander Mandrel - oversized, 338 cal

plus, a set of reloading dies for 338 Federal, right?

Or, is it realistic to form the brass using only a sizing die? I noticed reviews on Midway.com that say just use the die, with good lube.

[trublu]

I have necked up .308 brass for my tikka in .338 fed. No problem at all. Use RCBS dies. Just FLR first. Neck size the fireformed cases on the next reload. Found that winchester brass tends to split though. I've just used whatever .308 brass i had scrounged up because it's a hunting rifle and I lose too many cases in the heat of the moment while hunting.

[Viper225]

If I were to build a Savage Striker, the 338 Federal would be in competition with the 358 Winchester as a close range power house round for it.
The 308 case based cartridges are hard to beat for most applications.

Bob

[Jimro]

Lots of cartridges compare favorably to the 7mm Rem Mag at the muzzle and inside point blank range. Pretty much ALL hunting cartridges 308 Win or more in case capacity compare favorably to the 7mm Rem Mag at hunting ranges.

If you want to compare the lowly 30-30 to the 7mm Rem Mag, The max point blank range is 286 yards with a 160gr Hornady FTX at 2,450. That's within spitting distance of the 320 yards of the 338 Fed (215 SGK at 2630), which is pretty close to the 349 yards of the 7mm Rem Mag (175 SGK at 2850).

That being said, the longer range you shoot, the more the 7mm Rem Mag comes into its own. The 338 Fed at 700 has the energy and drop of the 7mm RM at 800. But still, people shoot 308 Win's out to 1k all the time, so it isn't like there is a huge advantage for the 7mm Rem Mag on paper (there definitely is in time of flight though!).

Jimro

[ammo.crafter]

Viper is one the mark.

For large game at close ranges I use a .358Bellm.

I neck and trim to size .444 Marlin brass with only a onetime pass through .358 Winchester die.

[dahermit]

I have stepped up/down with quite a few different cartridges. Looks like an easy one, but never tried it. The only problem I see would be using military brass. Sometimes the brass at the neck is too thick for the new case and has to be reamed or turned.

As a purely academic question, wouldn't the thicker necks of military brass be desirable when necking-up inasmuch as the brass becomes thinner (and become too thin), when doing so? Ask'en for a friend.

[Jimro]

As a purely academic question, wouldn't the thicker necks of military brass be desirable when necking-up inasmuch as the brass becomes thinner (and become too thin), when doing so? Ask'en for a friend.

Yes, necking up thick military brass is no problem, unless you are doing something weird like converting 30-06 to 308 (a massive shortening), and then deciding you don't want 308 Win you want 338 Fed, and then you neck up without ever neck turning, then you could possibly run into a thick neck problem in the final product...

But a straight conversion between 7.62x51 and 338 Fed should just be single trip through the resizing die.

Jimro

[oldscot3]

I hate to be "that guy" aka Captain Obvious, but 338 Fed factory loads are commonly available for +/- $1.50 a round. That's not all that bad when lots of common calibers of rifle brass are running in the $0.80 per piece range. Of course, as an added bonus, there's the correct headstamp thing.

[Gunplummer]

The thick neck problem starts when you chamber the round. If the neck brass is too thick, the brass will "Choke" the bullet. With all the surplus brass out there, it pays to check. I made a 8MMx54R rifle once and used the 7.62 die with an 8MM expander ball. No problem. You can get away with a lot switching die parts.

[std7mag]

One thing I've been reading about recently, is that the bullets for 338 caliber are made for much higher velocity cartridges (LM, Ultra, WM), and that they don't actually expand well in the slower velocity of the 338 Fed.

www.ballisticstudies.com