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Old May 13, 2012, 10:57 PM   #1
Kevin_d77
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Sig P220 Question

Good evening all, quick question for the collective. I stumbled upon a Sig-Sauer P220 that a family member has, but isn't doing anything with. I have been wanting to add a .45 to the collection and figured this could be just the deal I am looking for. I was told that the gun was bought from a former employee that needed some cash so he had to part ways with it. This transaction took place in 2000. The story goes that the pistol was used in all sorts of competitions etc and had multiple barrels and work done to it. I know nothing about these guns and am clueless as to what I should be looking for. Also, from what I have read the old variants of this gun were much nicer than the newer ones. I have searched all over the gun for clues to when it was made. There are no markings under the barrel with the multiple letter codes or anything to that extent. It does have Germany stamped on the gun but that is the only identifying feature I can find. The serial #starts as G294 if that helps in identifying any information. The gun has the original black hard case, 5 magazines (3 6 capacity and 2 7 capacity I think) and the owners manual. In the manual, I did see on one page the book may have been printed in 1998.

So, my question is what would be a fair price for this gun, assuming it shoots properly? I'm hoping that he can find the extra barrels and all of that good stuff, but as is, what do you think would be fair price for the gun. I can't wait to get out there and shoot it sometime this week. It really is a nice looking and sturdy feeling gun.

Thank you for all of your help!



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Old May 13, 2012, 11:45 PM   #2
IMightBeWrong
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With those pictures, I find it hard to believe it was shot all that much! Looks to be in fantastic condition. I'd jump on it if I had the cash and the opportunity.
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Old May 14, 2012, 12:08 AM   #3
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You can look up the manufacture date by the serial number here, should give a relatively accurate idea of when it was made:

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc...5/m/7320040262

Looks to be 1998. I had a '96 one that was in similar condition for a while, great gun. That one looks in great shape! It is of the older design with the carbon stamped slide instead of the milled stainless. I prefer the older style anyway but either is good.

With the slide and frame marked as "Made in Germany" I'd say it is all German manufacture. I've encountered a number of late '90s SIGs that didn't have the two letter date codes under the front of the slide even though they were imported. I think they stopped doing them around that time (I've seen some from the 2000s that were the same too).

As for price. I'd say $500-$550 if it has standard sights. Maybe $625-$650 if night sights. I'd want to know exactly what "work" was done and by whom if you can find that out. Stuff like that kinda scares me. Also is the current barrel in there now of SIG manufacture? If not see if you can find some markings so we can figure out who it is from and make sure it is a quality vendor. Bar-sto would be one.
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Old May 14, 2012, 12:48 AM   #4
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Agree with TunnelRat. The P220 is a nice pistol and one of my favorites. You might want to check current listings and completed auctions on GunBroker. I know there is a similar P220 on Gunbroker currently in the three to four hundred range, but it is an ongoing auction and could sell much higher.

As TunnelRat stated, you should attempt to get documentation on and a closer examination of work on the gun.
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Old May 14, 2012, 01:13 AM   #5
Westgunn
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Personal opinion: I'd stick at $550. Good looking gun, btw.
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Old May 14, 2012, 05:47 AM   #6
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I paid $500 for mine a 2003 model but the one you have is in a whole lot better shape.
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Old May 14, 2012, 06:43 AM   #7
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Plus ... it's a "Made in Germany" !
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Old May 14, 2012, 07:04 AM   #8
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If the rails look good Id buy it. somewhere around $500 would be fair,maybe more if you really want it.
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Old May 14, 2012, 08:22 AM   #9
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Is the "plus its made in Germany" comment sarcasm or is that really a good thing? I'm quite ignorant when it comes to this gun (well most guns actually) so I am trying to learn as much as possible. This would only be gun #2 in my collection, the first being a SA XD40 service model in bi-tone (love that gun, looks beautiful and shoots well!) I had planned on getting a .45 as my next piece and was looking at the XDM 4.5". This Sig came at a perfect time as it is the correct caliber, much cheaper and still an excellent shape. And from what I am reading from all of you, still a really nice gun!

As for the barrels, the one currently in it has a Sig stamp on it so I would assume that this one is the factory piece. My step father is currently looking for all of the additional items that he bought the gun with, so that should be interesting. Are there any other key items that I should be looking at or for to check for modifications etc? I can always take pics to post for you guys to take a look at. I field stripped it yesterday to take a look at it and it was pretty flawless. Looks like it could be shot right now without any worries.

So let me know anything else I should look for or be on the look out for. I am pretty excited about adding this piece to my collection (of one haha) and getting it out on the range. So any info or items or interesting facts etc that I may need to know will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks for taking the time out for a newbie! Looking forward to becoming an active member of this very interesting forum!
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Old May 14, 2012, 08:29 AM   #10
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I hear a lot of rave reviews on the all German built guns.

Mine are hybrids. Part German and part American made. Only had issues with one and that was resolved by customer service.

I think you will like it.

Nice looking gun and does not look like it has been shot much.

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Old May 14, 2012, 09:54 AM   #11
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The "German Made" SIGs are a bit of a controversy. There is a popular opinion these days that SIG's quality control and customer service has gone down hill. I'd agree with that to a point. I have a seen many a new SIG with cosmetic blemishes, sights out of line, etc, but nothing that should affect performance. Still on a $800-$1200 gun, depending on the model, you would hope not to see that at all. The German made SIGs had relatively few issues at all and are somewhat prized because they are what SIG made their name on. Early American SIGs are also of good quality. The carbon steel slides of the older SIGs are also nice because they are somewhat lighter and to me the balance feels better. They are somewhat less rust proof, but I am not a Navy Seal .

With a SIG barrel I'd be pretty confident in purchasing it if it is in as good of shape as you say. I'd get it out to the range and shoot it first if you can, as it is a family gun that should be easy. But I'd have no reservations about buying it if I was you.
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Old May 14, 2012, 10:02 AM   #12
Kevin_d77
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From the pictures and descriptions above can you tell if this is a German made model with the carbon steel slide? I currently have the gun at home and plan on heading to the range this week with it. Any suggestions on ammo? Is there anything in particular I should watch for while shooting this particular gun?

Pardon my ignorance and tons of questions, but as an engineer by trade being inquisitive is in my nature. I always want to learn as much as possible about items that interest me and have no problem putting in the research. I probably researched the Springfield XD40 line for a month before purchasing that weapon and I'm thrilled that I did! Thank you all for your help!
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Old May 14, 2012, 10:28 AM   #13
4V50 Gary
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Are both roll pins at 12 o'clock?
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Old May 14, 2012, 11:17 AM   #14
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You should be able to run just about any ammo through it. I can with mine.
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Old May 14, 2012, 11:28 AM   #15
Kevin_d77
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Pardon my ignorance, but roll pins? Tell me what I'm looking for and I can check. And what will that tell me?

And I know for my .40 the 180gr is typically what I send down range. For the .45 is 230gr is the typical range ammo? Any preferences for the range and /or home defense?
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Old May 14, 2012, 12:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
For the .45 is 230gr is the typical range ammo?
230gr is the "standard" weight for .45ACP. Most range ammo is 230gr. When you get into defensive ammo, there's a lot of 185gr +P loads... the 230gr bullets tend to be moving in the 830-850fps range, and with some designs that can make them marginal for expansion. A faster and lighter bullet can give more reliable expansion.

Personally, I use only 230gr ammo for both range and defensive use (I use the Winchester PDX1, which is 230gr, for defense... my lightweight 1911s aren't really intended for the +P stuff).
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Old May 14, 2012, 01:09 PM   #17
TunnelRat
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Yes it appears to have the carbon steel slide. A picture of the top of the slide would cement it but I think the internal extractors were only used on the carbon steel slides.

It should digest any ammo you give it. 230 gr. ball should be fine.

Not sure what he wants to know the position of the roll pins for unless to see if the slide has been disassembled before. You'll have to hear back from him. You can see one roll pin in the picture you posted. Look at the slide. See that little circle at the top of the slide serrations? That's where one of the roll pins goes. Knocking that out is necessary to disassemble the slide. I wouldn't recommend it unless you feel pretty confident as an amateur gunsmith and have watched a disassembly video online or elsewhere.
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Old May 14, 2012, 03:09 PM   #18
Rinspeed
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Quote:
Plus ... it's a "Made in Germany" !



Actually it was made here in the states.
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Old May 14, 2012, 04:25 PM   #19
Kevin_d77
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Ok, I will check the pins tonight when I get home and I will definitely take a pic of the slide as well. Is there anyway to actually determine if this is a German gun? Seems as though Sig has a bit of a racket going by charging $50 for a written date of manufacture letter etc. Seems as though there should be an easier way (and free too!) to accomplish this task than waiting two weeks for a written report! Hmmm.....dunno I guess I can just try calling. Heading to Walmart now to pick up some ammo. The anticipation of shooting this badboy is getting to be too much!!!

Thanks again for all the help! This is a great forum community! Glad I joined for sure!
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Old May 14, 2012, 04:29 PM   #20
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If it doesn't have date codes and proof marks it's not a German made 220.
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Old May 14, 2012, 05:01 PM   #21
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So are those of you stating it was made in the states saying the slide is not original? It's stamped Made in Germany. On the other side, it's marked Sigarms Inc, Exiter, NH which I understood to be the importing arm of Sig?
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Old May 14, 2012, 05:16 PM   #22
Rinspeed
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So are those of you stating it was made in the states saying the slide is not original? It's stamped Made in Germany.


All the sheet steal slides say made in Germany or W. Germany because they never brought the tooling to make them here in the states. I think they started using the one piece SS machined slide around 02 or so. Assembly of the 220 started in the states in 1995.
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Old May 14, 2012, 05:47 PM   #23
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I love Sig's and have had many of them, German made or not I've had very few problems with them.

No one can say how many rounds the gun has through it, especially through a picture.

The gun might have 10,000,000 rounds through it and then refinished to make it look pretty.

If you like the gun and want to buy it then go for it. Remember you never know what someone else did to it before you got it, unless you are a qualified gunsmith and take the thing apart.

Most of my guns have been used and I have rarely been disappointed.
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Old May 14, 2012, 06:00 PM   #24
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If it does not have these date codes then it was assembled in Exter. All the parts were made in Germany but assembled here.



It is a folded carbon steel slide which IMHO is better than the milled stainless with the internal extractor. I would however not pay a premium. It is a nice $500 to $575 gun depending on your local market. This is still way below the cost of a NIB Sig. Look for the smile on the top of the front of the barrel. If it has not been shot much then the lines will not be as prevalent. Nothing wrong with a good Sig smile but it is a indicator of wear between a 1000 round gun and 100 round gun.





You need to inspect the rails. If you see any damage like this pass. If it checks out you could do a lot worse than a P220. It is still one of my all time favorite 45s.





Quote:
No one can say how many rounds the gun has through it, especially through a picture... The gun might have 10,000,000 rounds through it and then refinished to make it look pretty.
I disagree with this statement. If you know what to look for you can determine if a Sig has been a hard use pistol or a safe queen. Refinishing is not that hard to spot. The condition of the roll pins is also a dead giveaway. Rail condition etc... it is not hard to tell a 1,000 round count gun from a 10,000 even if its had a paint job.
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Old May 14, 2012, 06:21 PM   #25
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WV You forgot to quote my "No one can say how many rounds the gun has through it, especially through a picture."
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