Please help!!!!

[PTS1]

I just tried loading my first and rounds ever and I have a problem. I am loading 140 grain sierra hpbt gamekings for a 270 wsm. I first seated the bullets to 2.800 as per the manual. When I tried to chamber the round in my rifle, chamber would not close so I started seating .01 at a time. I went down to 2.69 and it still wont close. Manual states minmum COL is 2.700. I noticed the sierra bullet seems to be "fatter" than the factory power-points toward the tip and I can see where the lands are touching the bullet. Would have to seat down to about 2.6 or lower for the scrathces to go below the neck. Funny thing is, started seating down 4 rounds at a time and one of them chambered perfectly at 2.72, but the others would not. And yes, I measured the box of sierra bullets..2.77. Any ideas?

[Gnarly]

PM sent.
----Gnarly

[PTS1]

Anyone? Please help.

[kyle663]

I would try a different brand of bullits to see if the same thing happens. it will give you an idea if it the bullits or maybe bad dies, etc

[Red_Eagle]

My Sierra manual is showing a COAL of 2.765". Is the brass trimmed and resized to specs?

[Sevens]

So the question becomes, WHICH manual states that minimum coal is 2.700 ? If that manual is not a Sierra manual, or a manual testing with Sierra bullets, I wouldn't say that it's etched in stone.

Here's what's good for you-- your situation is with Sierra bullets. If you had some no-name, bulk, over-run or pulled military bullets, you wouldn't have the option, but because you bought name brand bullets from a good company (Sierra, Barnes, Nosler, Speer, Hornady), you can call or e-mail them and they keep a staff of folks on hand for specifically this reason.

Call them or e-mail and they will tell you all you ever needed to know and more. They are friendly and helpful and there's a staff in place for exactly this reason.

[Red_Eagle]

Sierra has free tech support. 1-800-223-8799. Very fast and friendly too. Talked to'em last week.

[PTS1]

Thanks Sevens. I will call them now. Also, would seating down below 2.7 cause unsafe pressure? Like i said, I am a noob so please forgive the ignorance.

[Sevens]

If you are starting down at start loads (or reducing max loads by 10%) then you should be pretty safe with slightly reduced internal dimensions. YES, seating bullets too low can raise pressures, but if you aren't near max loads, you are in a much safer position to try.

[jaguarxk120]

Take some of your resized cases, no bullets and try to chamber them, Tgere may be a problem with resizing and the case may be distorted. TF

[HOGGHEAD]

Chambering a case by itself is a good idea. It is also a good idea to smoke the case before you put it in the chamber. If the case is dragging somewhere then the smoke will show you where. It is also a good idea to smoke the bullet.

One thing I have found over the years is that Sierra bullets are more consitent in weight over the Hornady bullets. But I have also noticed that the Hornady bullet has a more consistent Ogive over the Sierra. So I always seat the Sierra's a bit deeper than the Hornady bullet.

I do not pay a lot of attention to OAL for hunting loads. Normally the magazine in most rifles limit the OAL. Especially when you are shooting the heavy for caliber bullets. Tom.

[PTS1]

-Jaguar, I tried chanbering sized cases and they went in no problem. Thanks for the tip though. I just got off the phone with sierra and they said to get a fired case and bend the end of the neck just a bit to hold the bullet in place and chamber the round and measure how far back the bullet went in and start from there. They also mentioned that the hollow point is shorter than the standard lead tip and so the ogive is much higher-up and will have to be seated in further than normal. He also said I shouldnt have to worry about pressure if seating in deeper as long as bullet is not touching the lands. Sound about right to you guys?

[Sevens]

I would take their advice over most/all I'd get from any random posters in a forum (cue random poster fear mongering about how "pro's" don't have any qualifications over anyone else, yadda yadda yadda)

Keeping the bullet off the lands and allowing it to freebore for a short bit is a good guard against overpressure. I'd say, take their advice and work from there!

[Shoney]

Have you measured your case length???

You probably need to trim them, because your problem is a classic example of cases that are too long.

Let us know.

[R.Childs]

Give us some background on the rifle. Is it one you've had awhile? Have you ever shot it before? Do factory rounds cycle through it OK? Etc., etc.

[PTS1]

Give us some background on the rifle. Is it one you've had awhile? Have you ever shot it before? Do factory rounds cycle through it OK? Etc., etc.

It is a Vanguard 270wsm. Have had it 2 years and cycles factory 130 ballistic tips, 150 grain power points and 150 grain fussions with no problems. Very accurate with all 3 facotry loads (.9 to 1.3 m.o.a.) I also trimmed the neck after sizing to oal of 2.095. Specs calls for max of 2.1. Should I go shorter?

[Shoney]

2.095 That measurement is correct. What type of caliper do yo have? and have you calibrated it to say 0.277 on one of your bullets???

[Shoney]

Another thought came to mind after posting above. When I was a novice, I unknowingly set the seat/crimp die just a tiny bit too deep. This bulged the case ever so slightly at the shoulder, that you couldn't see it. They would not chamber. It took a lot of scratching of various parts of my anatomy before I discovered that problem. Back off your seat/crimp die (not the seating stem) an 1/8 turn at a time and test.

[PTS1]

Sorry took so long for me to reply, was out last week on vacation. Anyway, before i left, I finally figured out what was wrong. Turns out Shoney was right (sort of). It was the trim length causing the problems. The 2.095 trim was within specs for this round, however, after measuring the factory trim length it was 2.090. I trimmed mine down to this and presto, smooth feeding. Took out first batch of (4) 140 grain sierra BTHP at 58.0 grains IMR4350 and had a 1.25" group. Not bad, but factory ammo would do this. Next (3) were the same as first but with 59.0 grains IMR4350. .55" group! Now that is more like it! Thanks for all your help, everyone. Turned nightmare of first reloads to a dream. Will post pics of targets later.

[SL1]

PTS1,

Something is still wrong with your situation.

SAAMI specs for the 270 WSM are a maximum case length of 2.100". That means that SAAMI specs for 270 WSM chambers allows enough clearance for the 2.100" case length. The fact that you need to trim another 0.01" off the case to make it chamber properly means that your chamber is too short OR your dies are not properly adjusted.

If your chamber is really too short, then you have a safety problem waiting to bite you whenever you get a factory round that with a case that is at SAAMI max, which can happen any time. So, you need to find out if you really have a too-short chamber.

The "OR" is that you may actually have a chamber to SAAMI specs (or larger), but you may have set one or more of your dies wrong. I assume you are using a standard 2-die set for this bottleneck cartridge. IF so, I don't think the problem could be coming from your sizing die because you said your sized cases chamber fine without a bullet in them. But, if you have set your seating die so that the crimp shoulder in the die pushes down on the case mouth too much, it can bulge the case just below the mouth enough to make it hard to chamber a cartridge. That is especially true when using hard bullets with the case mouth not in a cannelure. Your Sierra Game Kings are not particularly hard, but I think I remember that they do not have a cannelure. Trimming the case some more would reduce the bulge and allow the cartridge to chamber, which is what you found. It is also possible that your seating die is bulging the case somewhere else instead of the neck just below the mouth, but that is not as common.

You can check for the die adjustment problem by backing off your seating die BODY about 1/4th of a turn, which should give you another 0.018" of length clearance between the crimp shoulder in the die and your case. You will have to turn your seating stem IN some to compensate for the die body moving out, so that you get the same overall cartridge length. If you can chamber a cartridge with a 2.100 case with the die backed-out this way, then it is only a die adjustment problem. Remember, you have to try this with a bullet seated in the case to the same length as the cartridges that will NOT chamber.

It is hard to check the chamber dimensions accurately enough to find a 0.005" error in the neck length. If you did not find your problem with the die manipulations I discussed above, then I think you had better have a COMPETENT gunsmith check your chamber.

SL1

[PTS1]

SL1: Well, looking through my reloading manuals has confused me a bit. According to the Lee manual, the case length should be a max of 2.10. It does not refer to anything about trim length. The Sierra manual has a trim length of 2.090, which is where the cases are at now (and chamber fine). Also, I have the Lee case length gage and when trimed using this tool, it measures at 2.090. I inspected my cases after firing and did not see any signs of over-pressure. However, you got me thinking about my chamber legnth of my rifle (weatherby vanguard). The max I could seat out the game kings was 2.705. The manuals call for a max of 2.80. I figured this was just do to the ogive of the G.K.B.T.H.P. Last night, I tried some Hornady 130 grain S.P. interlocks. While most loads I looked at had the overall legnth between 2.76 to 2.78, mine would touch the lands at 2.766 and I backed it out to 2.746 for safety. Could I just have a short chamber? By the way, I measured my magazine to 2.90, but I don't know if I could find a bullet I could seat out close to that. Thanks in advance for any insight. Addition: I forgot to mention, I am not setting a crimp on the cases. I backed out the die 1/2 turn after touching the case as stated in the instructions.

[SL1]

PTS1,

Since you backed your seating die off contact with the case about 1/2 turn from touching the case mouth, it does not sound like that die adjsutment could be your problem. My only remaining question is whether you did that with a bullet in the case, or with an empty sized case. If the case was empty, then it was aobut 0.002" smaller in diameter than it is with a bullet in it, and might have not contacted the die at teh same lenght where a case with bullet seated would have. Still, a half-turn is about 0.071", so I would THINK that it would not have mattered.

You are confusing me with talk about cartridge overall lengths in combinaton with solving your problem with the Game King bullets by trimming the case. I am presuming that you kept the overall length the same when you trimmed the case, which would tell me that the overall length was NOT causing the bullet to jam into the rifling to cause your chambering problem, rather it was the case hitting the chamber throat or ncek in some way.

One other thought about how you might be producing these confusing results: bullets are not all the same length, even in a single box. So, measuring the COL with different bullets may be giving you different results from what really counts, which is the length at the diameter on the bullet that contacts the rifling. That is hard to measure without a special gauge. I use ONE bullet to do all of my length measurements when I set up a die for a new bullet in a cartridge.

Regarding the maximum and trim-to case case lengths in manuals, SAAMI set the maximums, and the reloading companies often specify 0.010" or 0.005" less as a length to trim cases to an identical length. This gives some room for safe growth before the next trimming, and allows for uniform length that can be essential for consistent crimps (if used).

SL1

[Big Caliber]

Shoney... Which part of your anatomy did you scratch to cause the light to shine?

[Shoney]

Big Caliber: The secret is in "parts" of the anatomy, not just one. The use of tools is permissable and no particular sequence or order is required.

I feel the best "combo's" are scratched when sitting, or when bending over.

[SL1]

Well, That sure reads like a thread killer! Don't you guys know the meaning of "PM"?

SL1