daddy needs help...

hogdogs · March 12, 2008, 12:29 PM

My daughter is VERY limited in gun handling skills. She has only fired one rifle. I need tips on how to incorporate the safety differences of handguns. Not hat they are more "dangerous" but that it is inherently easier to violate the rules like sweeping the muzzle on others. she knows the basics but I want to impart the habitual measures...
Brent

copenhagen · March 12, 2008, 12:36 PM

I wonder if giving her a pen laser would help. Maybe if you have a hand gun with one of those high speed laser gee gaws on it you could clear it and hand it to her and let her see where the dot goes. Maybe let her practice reloading, immediate action, etc with the laser turned on in low light. Make sure that she knows that anything that dot touches is dead. I would probably just jerry rig a pen laser to one of my hand guns if you do not have a laser device that can be turned on. I guess with those crimson traces you could always tape the switch down. If you are worried about her getting the laser in her eyes (she should not be pointing the gun at her eyes anyways!) you could have her wear some UV proof sun glasses too- I would figure that would help as far as safety.

hogdogs · March 12, 2008, 12:55 PM

I am confident her personal safety is fine. It is just that it is so much easier to keep the hand gun in hand and easier for an inexperienced shooter to forget it is an extension of their hand. She has been excellent with the savage rifle. i remember a post by some one saying to basically "hover" behind the new shooter ready to secure the shoulders to reaffirm the muzzle always points down range. I like the laser idea and can always tape one to her hand so she sees with no gun how easy it is to "sweep" non-targets and more important how to always keep it from infringing on the safety of others. She is a quite responsible 16 year old but the habitual safety measures are lacking since she has only been shooting the rifle since October. she was an AVID RABID gun hater until I pretty much forced her to "give it a whirl" and now she does her part to make sure my son's Boa gets fed...

After her first "kill" I told her that she was forever EXPELLED from peta and other such groups...

Brent

chris in va · March 12, 2008, 12:57 PM

Buy a longish wood dowel that fits the bore of the handgun. When she sweeps it, the dowel will magnify exactly where the gun is being pointed.

One other thing I like to do is 'freeze frame'. Whenever someone points the muzzle somewhere besides downrange, I say FREEZE and ask, "so where's it pointing right now?".

As for trigger discipline, maybe duct tape the trigger guard so they HAVE to keep it off the bang switch?

markj · March 12, 2008, 02:36 PM

Teach her finger off trigger and muzzle up when not on target, I use a squirt gun

when teaching kids at first.

MLeake · March 12, 2008, 02:41 PM

I prefer muzzle downrange, when available, and holstered, when not at a range.

pax · March 12, 2008, 03:03 PM

hogdogs,

http://www.corneredcat.com/Teaching/newshooter.aspx

That should help, I hope.

Also, in re muzzle direction -- tell her the handgun is a Star Wars light saber. Everything it crosses will be cut in half ...

pax

Lurper · March 12, 2008, 03:06 PM

You should work on letting her understand the basic safety rules and how the are applied. They should be used anytime you handle a firearm regardless of on the range or not. This might help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUtqZ-xjVo4

markj · March 12, 2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Muzzle up?

Our range on the outside part is muzzle up when moving a weapon. So it is kinda how I do it. Pointed down means you shoot yer foot. My Uncle (30 years deputy) taught me that too.

A kid needs to understand basics, it is how I learned and my kids too. No accidents yet .

MLeake · March 12, 2008, 03:12 PM

Muzzle up has also been used at military ranges where I've shot, but only in those instances where instructors handed out the weapons, and holsters and belts were not issued (IE initial or recurrent qualification).

Muzzle down could result in a shot foot, and adds a higher ricochet potential if in a hard packed or paved area.

But when holsters are available, holstered is a much safer way to move a pistol around, just as scabbarded is the preferred method for a katana.

hogdogs · March 12, 2008, 04:20 PM

PAX, I had your website in mind as it is so in depth. Since we are starting with a much older person (seems weird to me) I am not at the same advantage I would if I was starting with the toddler and following all the cornered cat methods. Heck if I tried that on the same time frame she would be 21 before she ever gets to fire the gun.

The only real concern I think she needs to perfect is that "NEWBIE" mistake following the first or second shot of spinning around and sweeping Daddy squealing about her bullseye.

We have most of the rules drilled in well. But it is just the ease of which a handgun can be "swept" that has my last 3 brown hairs turning grey and I ain't even bought the thing yet...
Brent

March 12, 2008, 12:29 PM	#1
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	daddy needs help... My daughter is VERY limited in gun handling skills. She has only fired one rifle. I need tips on how to incorporate the safety differences of handguns. Not hat they are more "dangerous" but that it is inherently easier to violate the rules like sweeping the muzzle on others. she knows the basics but I want to impart the habitual measures... Brent

March 12, 2008, 12:36 PM	#2
copenhagen Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 592	I wonder if giving her a pen laser would help. Maybe if you have a hand gun with one of those high speed laser gee gaws on it you could clear it and hand it to her and let her see where the dot goes. Maybe let her practice reloading, immediate action, etc with the laser turned on in low light. Make sure that she knows that anything that dot touches is dead. I would probably just jerry rig a pen laser to one of my hand guns if you do not have a laser device that can be turned on. I guess with those crimson traces you could always tape the switch down. If you are worried about her getting the laser in her eyes (she should not be pointing the gun at her eyes anyways!) you could have her wear some UV proof sun glasses too- I would figure that would help as far as safety. __________________ 'The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.' Thomas Jefferson National Rifle Association Life Member

March 12, 2008, 02:41 PM	#6
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Muzzle up? I prefer muzzle downrange, when available, and holstered, when not at a range.

March 12, 2008, 03:03 PM	#7
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	hogdogs, http://www.corneredcat.com/Teaching/newshooter.aspx That should help, I hope. Also, in re muzzle direction -- tell her the handgun is a Star Wars light saber. Everything it crosses will be cut in half ... pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

March 12, 2008, 03:12 PM	#10
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	muzzle up vs down vs holster Muzzle up has also been used at military ranges where I've shot, but only in those instances where instructors handed out the weapons, and holsters and belts were not issued (IE initial or recurrent qualification). Muzzle down could result in a shot foot, and adds a higher ricochet potential if in a hard packed or paved area. But when holsters are available, holstered is a much safer way to move a pistol around, just as scabbarded is the preferred method for a katana.

March 12, 2008, 12:55 PM	#3
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I am confident her personal safety is fine. It is just that it is so much easier to keep the hand gun in hand and easier for an inexperienced shooter to forget it is an extension of their hand. She has been excellent with the savage rifle. i remember a post by some one saying to basically "hover" behind the new shooter ready to secure the shoulders to reaffirm the muzzle always points down range. I like the laser idea and can always tape one to her hand so she sees with no gun how easy it is to "sweep" non-targets and more important how to always keep it from infringing on the safety of others. She is a quite responsible 16 year old but the habitual safety measures are lacking since she has only been shooting the rifle since October. she was an AVID RABID gun hater until I pretty much forced her to "give it a whirl" and now she does her part to make sure my son's Boa gets fed... After her first "kill" I told her that she was forever EXPELLED from peta and other such groups... Brent

March 12, 2008, 12:57 PM	#4
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Buy a longish wood dowel that fits the bore of the handgun. When she sweeps it, the dowel will magnify exactly where the gun is being pointed. One other thing I like to do is 'freeze frame'. Whenever someone points the muzzle somewhere besides downrange, I say FREEZE and ask, "so where's it pointing right now?". As for trigger discipline, maybe duct tape the trigger guard so they HAVE to keep it off the bang switch?

March 12, 2008, 02:36 PM	#5
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	Teach her finger off trigger and muzzle up when not on target, I use a squirt gun when teaching kids at first.

March 12, 2008, 03:06 PM	#8
Lurper Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 943	You should work on letting her understand the basic safety rules and how the are applied. They should be used anytime you handle a firearm regardless of on the range or not. This might help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUtqZ-xjVo4

March 12, 2008, 04:20 PM	#11
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	PAX, I had your website in mind as it is so in depth. Since we are starting with a much older person (seems weird to me) I am not at the same advantage I would if I was starting with the toddler and following all the cornered cat methods. Heck if I tried that on the same time frame she would be 21 before she ever gets to fire the gun. The only real concern I think she needs to perfect is that "NEWBIE" mistake following the first or second shot of spinning around and sweeping Daddy squealing about her bullseye. We have most of the rules drilled in well. But it is just the ease of which a handgun can be "swept" that has my last 3 brown hairs turning grey and I ain't even bought the thing yet... Brent