45ACP Shotshell

[849ACSO]

So, there's very few things I hate and am afraid of more that snakes.........

I carry a 1911 almost exclusively (yes, even when I mow). I have loaded numerous .38 Spl shot loads in the past because they're easy, but I decided to do a little research and cook up some 45ACP shot loads that would cycle my pistol. I have been tinkering with this for a couple of weeks. Mission accomplished as of today.

This load data is not published, so use it at your own risk.

I took .308 Win cases and cut them off at 1.15". I used a copper tubing cutter. This measurement was based on trial and error for the throat in MY pistol and what would fit in the magazine. It would likely work in most chambers and magazines, as after I found what worked for mine, I shortened it a few more thousandths.

Next, I chamfered/de-burred the case mouth, and ran the case through a 45ACP sizing/de-capping die, and primed with a Lg Pistol Primer.

Next, Making sure to lube around the case mouth, I ran the case up into a 40/10mm seating die to neck down the mouth. I ran it in an 1/8" or so, took it out and checked head spacing in my barrel, and repeated until I found the proper head spacing. The die was then adjusted accordingly.

Based on other research and experiments, I opted to use Titegroup, which was the fastest powder I had available. Based on what I could get for shot payload (140 gr), and what data is available for TG in 45ACP loads, I settled on 5gr of Titegroup.

Once the powder was in the case, I used a 45ACP case and mallet to cut an over powder wad, and used the head of a nail to seat that wad card, which was cut from a primer sleeve. I added about 140gr of #8 shot and then cut an overshot wad of the same primer sleeve using a 10mm casing and mallet and placed it over the shot.

I then rolled the edges of the case mouth over using an old Lee Classic Loader crimp die for 38 Spl and mallet. I put a small drop of Gorilla Wood glue on the over shot wad card and smeared it around in there to help weather proof and keep the card in place.

After letting the glue cure, I loaded 7 in my Kimber mag, set up a piece of cardboard, and backed off about 15 feet. All 7 rounds shot, cycled the pistol (even though the empties just kind of "dribbled" out the side) and it patterned well enough to kill those that would slither up to me. Since I rapidly shot the rounds into the same piece of cardboard, I didn't measure the pattern, but it made a mess of the spot I was using as a bulls-eye.

Anyway, I figured I would throw that out there for anyone who felt the need to make shot loads for a 45ACP. instead of paying outlandish prices for commercial CCI's.

You may have to tinker with the powder and shot payloads to get YOUR gun to cycle, but as I've shown, it can be done.

[Scorch]

I got the forming/loading dies set from RCBS and it does all the sizing for you (forms to the right shape, you cut off the case, then move to loading). About 9 gr of Unique with a cut-off 410 shot cup filled with #8 shot and topped with a 357 gas check gave me the best results. They work OK out to about 20-25 feet.

[g.willikers]

So what's wrong with just wearing high boots and carrying a big stick?
Heck, most snakes are harmless and more than eager to not make your acquaintance.
And they do work overtime to keep the vermin population down.
A grown man afraid of snakes.
Tsk, Tsk.

[849ACSO]

I don't mind the ones that I don't see that are no where near me. If I were in the North Atlantic, in a row boat during a winter storm and a snake was in the boat, I would shoot the snake, knowing it would sink the boat. I would still be less afraid of making the swim............

[BigJimP]

I don't like snakes either....but it seems like you are taking this a little over the top...and "wild-catting" that load seems a little to risky, in my view, potentially giving you a squib round...or at least malfunctioning. ..in the gun.

I used to carry some snake shot ....in .357 mag and .44 mag revolvers .....when I was fishing on heavily infested rattle snake areas of some great blue ribbon trout rivers / creeks....but I don't think in 20 yrs ( and hundreds of trips).... I fired over 10 rds . Mostly just having it made me feel better....but good boots, a watchful eye and moving thru areas on the banks carefully....resulted in very few encounters...

But just my opinion.../ I don't know how many of these loads you'll fire in 20 yrs / last time I checked, even in .44 mag they were about $1.50 per round....

I loaded 20 boxes of 9mm ...this morning in a couple of hours.....for my own training in next 2 weeks, that seems like a better use of my time..../ and spending $20 for commercial snake shot seems like a bargain...rather than wildcatting this load....

[evtSmtx]

I like a s&w governor for that task

[849ACSO]

spending $20 for commercial snake shot seems like a bargain...rather than wildcatting this load....

Some of us reload to try new/different things. Through research, I know that the use of 308 brass to make 45ACP shotshells is widely accepted. In fact, RCBS makes a set of $200 dies to do just that. I didn't feel like spending $200 for dies, and in fact, didn't feel like spending $20 on factory shot loads that won't cycle my gun.

This process isn't exactly new. Just new to me. The powder charge is different than any other info I've found, so I figured I would pass that long for others, since I've done the work that they may want to cash in on. They function fine, as I have shot them several times over again to check reliability.

Anyway, if you choose a different path for your "needs" to "fill your time", have at it.

[Sevens]

Well I definitely found the idea, process and explanation of it all to be totally interesting and I love the ingenuity, especially when it comes to handloading. Very cool.

With that said, I don't think I would be satisfied with this project until the subject gun has sent MANY out, flawlessly. I'm thinking if it could do a hundred rounds without a single failure, that would make me happy.

One comment...
.308 rifle brass is built around the use of a large rifle sized primer. As such, the pocket is DEEPER than intended for a large pistol primer. Same diameter, but a LR primer is taller.

Would it be possible to instead use .460 Rowland brass?

[T. O'Heir]

Shot, fired out of a rifled barrel, flies in a spiral sending the shot all over creation and leave great big holes in the pattern. No spirals or holes with a stick.
Mind you, Kaa is only trying to keep that big ugly thing from stepping on him or chopping him into little pieces with that noisy machine. You leave him alone, he'll leave you alone. And I'm not a fan of him either.

[849ACSO]

308 rifle brass is built around the use of a large rifle sized primer. As such, the pocket is DEEPER than intended for a large pistol primer. Same diameter, but a LR primer is taller.

The primer does sit a touch deeper, but I have no problems with hitting it hard enough to set if off.

I'm not sure of the .460 case dimensions without looking, but either way, that's going to put me spending money on cases because that's a case I don't already have a supply of. I have tons of .308 brass laying around that I'm not going to reload again for one reason or another. This project didn't cost me a penny, because everything I used, I already had, and some of it was destined for the trash bin, so it's a win/win for me.

As far as the 100 rounds, I have 35 down the tube with no problems. I have 7 cases, and have reloaded them 6 times, but fired them 5. I suspect this may be last go round for these cases, as I'm guessing mouth crimps will begin to split soon.

[jmorris]

I did this a couple of years ago but I modified a die I had and used cut down .410 wads.

This is the thread with photos and a video.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...hlight=45+shot

Patterns better than any other pistol/shot combination I have used.

[849ACSO]

Your crimps look WAY more uniform than mine. I don't have access to a lathe, so I won't be making any seater/crimp mandrels. Looks great though.

[briandg]

Sweet. If I was handling out advice, I MIGHT suggest using rifle primers if you insure that they will fire in you gun, maybe magnums, it would be trial and error. What size shot and weight of charge?

[briandg]

You know, the other guy I know who carries a big gun with shot finds water mock every other time he knows, and they die, but he's just as likely to gently carry any other snake he finds to a safe place.

[Old Stony]

Years ago a friend asked me to see if I could work up some snake loads for his 1911 as he was moving to S. Africa and was afraid of the snakes where he was going. At the time there weren't any commercial loads available for the .45 acp. I played with some different techniques and found they would sure lead the barrel without a plastic wad.
I eventually just purchased an RCBS set of dies which came with instructions and was pretty simple. It used a cut down .410 wad and a .41 gas check over the top of everything that was held in by a light crimp. They worked okay, but weren't effective very far.

[briandg]

South Africa, home of the forty foot long eatyoohole snake. Eight bore with paradox loads.

[jmorris]

Brian I have never had a problem using pistol primers.

My .410 wad loads hold 84.9+\- grains of #12 or around 425 pellets pushed by 6 grains of 231.

[briandg]

The Speer capsule call for nine, and 231. Shot and bullets are very different in behavior, and I'm not the one to try building a load, and I'm interested to see what other people come up wit.

Way back, I read about a guy while split bullets, stuck them back together, and then packed all the shot into them that he could. Then the jacket fell off like a sabot. Seemed kind of stupid.

Another guy filled the shot cavity with beeswax before capping it, to hold it together and minimize leading dunno.

But, I don't do the stuff, but like to hear about it.

Btw, rock salt rounds work best with bp . That I did experiment with, we had a really vicious dog that used to cause trouble. I don't know the exact terminal effects, but it m axe him hate me more than ever. The experiment failed.

[jmorris]

The Speer capsule call for nine, and 231.

I was un aware that Speer had shot capsules for 45 ACP, do you have a link? Also where did you get that data from? I use 6 grains of 231 along with the Speer capsules for 45 long colt. Edit: or are you saying #9 shot? I have used it as well, just get a larger payload with #12 and better patterns.

The only ones I have bought from them were for 38/357, 44 and 45. For use in non semiautomatic firearms.



CCI makes 45 ACP shot rounds pretty much the same way that the op and I did.



They do make a capsule for 9mm but you cannot buy just the capsule.


As an example of shot size and payload the CCI big 4 9mm rounds have around 12 #4 shot in them with a total payload of 45 grains. The regular ones have a 53 grain payload with closer to 250 #12 shot in them.



And don't ask me why it looks like spent primers in the big 4 cases, I just got the photo off their site.

[briandg]

I was referring to the.357 capsules. Nine shot and 231 was the only load suggested. Twelve would work far better under vermin conditions. The only .45rounds I have ever seen were just like the chi.

[jmorris]

Remington made some 45 ACP shot rounds that were crimped like blanks up until sometime in the '90's.

Here is one on the right.

[briandg]

Now that you post that I remember seeing them. Sure must be a cool project.

[Scorch]

Would it be possible to instead use .460 Rowland brass?

I finally settled on 45 Win Mag brass, it's thinner than 308 brass, it's only a touch short, and you can adjust for that in the crimping stage.

Don't use military 7.62X51 brass, it is much thicker than commercial 308 brass, and the case mouths will not open up when you fire.

The difference in height of the pistol vs rifle primer makes no difference, your 1911 has .050" of protrusion.

I found the shot cartridges to be of little use. Usable range was 20', not enough for game animals typically. And since I am not worried about snakes, I saw little use for the shot cartridges in real life. But they are kinda cool, if nothing else just to say you did it.

[briandg]

Just to say you did it...

accomplishing something off the wall like this is great. catching all of the pokemon is ridiculous. If we take a problem or question and work it through to the end, its what made edison who he was.