Brands of brass

[Tlewis81]

Read an article awhile back somebody wrote saying they shot for ex. Brand a b and c brass with the same load combo....results were varied as much as 1.5 inches at 100 yards if i recall any expierences with this or something similiar?

[cw308]

Didn't read the article but I could see it happening. Some cases may be thicker causing less volume & more neck tension. I like FC & ADI brass which is thicker then most, lower my charge 1 grain from loads listed In load book.

[Marco Califo]

Yes they vary. No surprise they group differently.

Follow this link and page down to the brass section. The explanation and charts will give you an idea of what the differences are/can be.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

Of course, what this means is that you must sort your brass, and it is desire-able to have many of a certain type. For example I will load any high end loads in once or twice fired LC brass. Federal, which are made of a softer bass formula, go into my generic, "any brass" low end loads bucket.

[FrankenMauser]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.


I just shared a first-hand example a few weeks ago (June 12 - the data was obtained June 8th).

Here's the quote from that thread:

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser's Ghost

(...) I have a very recent example to provide as a reason for sorting when precision matters.

.30 WCF
150 gr Speer HCRN (discontinued )
2.545" COAL
2.228" case length
32.5 gr IMR4895
WLR primer, lot *638G
Tested in "tight"-chambered 16.25" barrel. (Loose by match standards, very tight by production .30-30 standards.)

Load initially developed in FC brass (single lot).

Load later tested in other brands of brass.

Benchmark velocity (FC brass): 2118 fps
R-P brass: 2066 fps
Win brass: 2161 fps
W-W brass: 2144 fps
R-P brass, lot 2: 2226 fps


All extreme spreads were under 50 fps - most under 30 fps.
Standard deviation peaked at 19.98 fps for the R-P brass (lot 2). All others were 13 fps or less.

If you didn't catch it, the two different lots of R-P brass were 160 fps apart (7.7%).
I have not weighed, nor checked H2O capacity of either lot; but I can tell you that lot #2 was from the '60s or '70s and the other lot was from about 2010. Externally, though, they look exactly the same.
Same components.
Same conditions.
Loaded at the same time.
Fired at the same time.
Dramatically different result.


Mix one of those 2226 fps bad boys in with the already-slower 2066 fps lot, and you'll have a flyer. In this case, it isn't just the trajectory that matters, either. When this load hits 2,200+ fps, the groups scatter - ragardless of brand of brass.

For these particular loads in R-P brass, fired from that rifle, the velocity difference results in a 2.25" higher point of impact at 200 yards. And the difference is 6.1" at 300 yards. Significant.

The obligatory caution was included at the beginning of this post, because I absolutely DO NOT advocate or suggest switching brands or lots of brass with established loads. The only reason I was willing to do it in this instance, was due to predicted 'low' chamber pressures in an already 'low pressure' cartridge, using a powder that tends to be very mellow, predictable, and 'forgiving'.
Do not try switching brass with established loads, at home.

[F. Guffey]

Read an article awhile back somebody wrote saying they shot for ex. Brand a b and c brass with the same load combo....results were varied as much as 1.5 inches at 100 yards if I recall; any experiences with this or something similar?

Yes I do and yes I have. There was an article written in about 1970 +/- a few years that no one read; but me. The article was about a writer, shooter and reloader that purchased 500 cases from one case manufacturer; it could be said the cases were from one lot. The writer/shooter/reloader sorted and separated the cases. After that he started over by sorting cases that had the same problem etc. etc. And then he started loading and firing and then he sorted again. He found sorted cases that had a problem shot accurately if he indexed the cases; when he did not index the cases the groups turned into patters like a shotgun.

When finished he settled on 47 of the 500 cases. He was the only reloader/shooter/good shot I know of that considered the length of the powder column and the diameter of the powder column.

Anyhow, I settled on sorting cases by head stamps and I was not going to shoot R-P and LC 30/06 cases with the same load because at the time there was .060” difference in the length of the powder column and I never got into that ‘repeat after me’ saying military brass is heavier because it is thicker because that is a half truth.

F. Guffey

[Tlewis81]

Thanx guys....ive just been noticing the same thing as i reload more and more great info

[603Country]

Not trying to be a contrarian, but a couple of years ago I was testing 223 loads in a new rifle, and found a good accurate load. Just as an afterthought, I loaded up about 50 rounds in cases that I had put back for plinking by the grandkids. They were a mixed lot of several makes, some neck turned and fully prepped and some were not. Some had been reloaded a lot and some had not.

Ten shot groups with that brass were not as tightly arranged as groups from the 'good' brass were, but they weren't bad. Let's say they were a bit more dispersed, but for hunting purposes it wouldn't have mattered at all. They were surprisingly good. All shooting was at 100 yards.

The 10 shot groups with the semi-retired brass ran about 1/4 larger.

[kerreckt]

30-06, 7mm Rem, 308, 243, all these, I sort by head stamp. 223 gets sorted for the bolt rifles but the AR ammo doesn't get sorted. No handgun brass gets sorted. That's what I do.