shotgun at auctionmaybe model 11

johnwilliamson062 · July 12, 2009, 05:14 PM

Ok, i saw an old shotgun at an auction today. There was a stainless shotgun I liked. It was reported to be a model 11. It was an auto loader and appeared like an A5 for the most part. Here is the odd thing, there was no bolt handle. There was a textured area on the barrel which you could grab and pull in and that would cock/chamber the first round. Could obviously get a little hot if you are firing a lot. It just seemed really odd to me. I have been looking at photos on google pics of both Rem model 11s and Browning A5s and have found none similar.

Looks like this, except in better shape. Even had the same recoil pad.
http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmit...03_012208C.jpg

Dave McC · July 12, 2009, 09:21 PM

It's not a Model 11, which were made by Remington..

It's a Model 1911 Winchester. The model called "The Widowmaker".

At one time, Winchester would swap these for a Model 12, no questions asked.

The junker in the pics is an 11.

I'd give it a pass. While the 1911 was a good pointer, the drawbacks of the mechanism kinda leave me unenthused.

If you want a shooter, keep looking for an 11.

HTH....

johnwilliamson062 · July 12, 2009, 09:40 PM

Well, my limit on it was $250 since I did not know anything about it. It sure looked neat. I will look up the Win 1911 to get some more info. I sure would not want to use that to shoot sporting clays or something or duck hunting. You might burn your hand in a hurry.

Thanks for the info.

http://www.icollector.com/images/115..._0049_1_lg.jpg
That would be it.

Goatwhiskers · July 13, 2009, 07:26 AM

One thing to remember about the Winchester M11 is that when it was designed we were just coming into use of smokeless powder and what we call "low brass" or low power loads were considered to be high powered loads. The gun WAS NOT designed to use modern "high brass" loads and will fail due to the recoil. I had one in some years ago that would double on standard field loads, but worked just fine with trap loads. Here endeth the lesson. Goatwhiskers the Elder

johnwilliamson062 · July 13, 2009, 08:02 AM

well, that means it is pretty worthless. If I am shooting a string of 50 birds nad we move quickly I will not be aable to chamber rounds by the end. No wonder it was made for 14 years and I never heard f it...

I still may pick one up in the future to put in my collection as a unique design.

amd6547 · July 13, 2009, 12:20 PM

Winchester screwed up royally with John Browning and the Auto 5. Previously, Browning sold the rights to his designs to Winchester outright. With the Auto 5, Browning wanted royalties. Winchester said no, so Browning took his design to FN and Remington.
Seeing the sucess of the Auto 5, Winchester brought out the "widowmaker"...The reason it has no bolt handle, is that Browning had patented the the bolt handle.

July 12, 2009, 05:14 PM	#1
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	shotgun at auctionmaybe model 11 Ok, i saw an old shotgun at an auction today. There was a stainless shotgun I liked. It was reported to be a model 11. It was an auto loader and appeared like an A5 for the most part. Here is the odd thing, there was no bolt handle. There was a textured area on the barrel which you could grab and pull in and that would cock/chamber the first round. Could obviously get a little hot if you are firing a lot. It just seemed really odd to me. I have been looking at photos on google pics of both Rem model 11s and Browning A5s and have found none similar. Looks like this, except in better shape. Even had the same recoil pad. http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmit...03_012208C.jpg Last edited by johnwilliamson062; July 12, 2009 at 05:45 PM.

July 13, 2009, 12:20 PM	#6
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	Winchester screwed up royally with John Browning and the Auto 5. Previously, Browning sold the rights to his designs to Winchester outright. With the Auto 5, Browning wanted royalties. Winchester said no, so Browning took his design to FN and Remington. Seeing the sucess of the Auto 5, Winchester brought out the "widowmaker"...The reason it has no bolt handle, is that Browning had patented the the bolt handle. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

July 12, 2009, 09:21 PM	#2
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	It's not a Model 11, which were made by Remington.. It's a Model 1911 Winchester. The model called "The Widowmaker". At one time, Winchester would swap these for a Model 12, no questions asked. The junker in the pics is an 11. I'd give it a pass. While the 1911 was a good pointer, the drawbacks of the mechanism kinda leave me unenthused. If you want a shooter, keep looking for an 11. HTH....

July 12, 2009, 09:40 PM	#3
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Well, my limit on it was $250 since I did not know anything about it. It sure looked neat. I will look up the Win 1911 to get some more info. I sure would not want to use that to shoot sporting clays or something or duck hunting. You might burn your hand in a hurry. Thanks for the info. http://www.icollector.com/images/115..._0049_1_lg.jpg That would be it.

July 13, 2009, 07:26 AM	#4
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	One thing to remember about the Winchester M11 is that when it was designed we were just coming into use of smokeless powder and what we call "low brass" or low power loads were considered to be high powered loads. The gun WAS NOT designed to use modern "high brass" loads and will fail due to the recoil. I had one in some years ago that would double on standard field loads, but worked just fine with trap loads. Here endeth the lesson. Goatwhiskers the Elder

July 13, 2009, 08:02 AM	#5
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	well, that means it is pretty worthless. If I am shooting a string of 50 birds nad we move quickly I will not be aable to chamber rounds by the end. No wonder it was made for 14 years and I never heard f it... I still may pick one up in the future to put in my collection as a unique design.