Please help--What is the SMALLEST .38?

MikeGoob · March 18, 2017, 09:13 PM

I want to get the smallest concealable 38 but I can't tell which that might be. The bodyguard? The scandium one? Something from Tarus?

Please help. Thanks guys

cc-hangfire · March 18, 2017, 10:05 PM

I trust some more knowledgeable wheelgun folks will come along shortly, but I'll report what I know about common guns.

I have a Ruger LCR & a S&W 642, and I had a Charter Undercover & a Taurus 85. The cylinder, barrel, & frame on all four are very close to the same. Just the geometry on getting 5 cartridges into a cylinder with modern metallurgy work out to about the same size for all these.

Ruger wins on conceal-abity due to how their grips attach. I have the bantam boot grip on mine & it makes the LCR most concealable. The Taurus 85 View & Non-view may have a smaller grip, but I haven't held one and I read that those grips are so small that they impact shootability - that would depend on your hand size. The Taurus 85 I had wore more standard sized grips and I didn't experiment with other options.

dahermit · March 18, 2017, 10:15 PM

I have both a Taurus 85 and a S&W 36. The Smith is slightly smaller and lighter. Neither are a problem, weight-wise when I carry one or the other in a pocket holster (front, right-hand pants/cargo shorts pocket).

pete2 · March 18, 2017, 10:33 PM

I like the 642 for pocket carry, the steel guns are too heavy for me other than a belt holster.

straightshooterjake · March 18, 2017, 10:57 PM

I suspect that what you really want is the smallest 38 that is good quality and reliable. In my opinion, the choices in this category are a J-frame Smith & Wesson or a Ruger LCR. Within those choices, my favorite is a no-lock Smith & Wesson model 642, but really any J-frame or LCR (or LCRx) is fine.

Some people will tell you that some other brands are just as good and maybe a little smaller or a bit cheaper. They may be right, but I'll still stick with a Smith or a Ruger.

If you really need something smaller than J-frame Smith, then I would suggest a .380 automatic. I am not a fan of the .380 round, but you can get a .380 that is a bit smaller and much thinner than any revolver. And if you need something that is very small and concealable, then you have to make hard compromises. I consider a .380 to be acceptable, but I'd certainly rather have a .38.

Onward Allusion · March 18, 2017, 11:21 PM

First thing that came to mind is the no-longer-produced Taurus View (or NON-View). At 10 oz, it's probably the lightest but has little to no grip. Still a good number of them on Gunbroker if you're brave.

On a more traditional scale, the S&W 340 or 360 PD Airlite is just over 11 oz.

Fogey · March 18, 2017, 11:40 PM

I have a Smith 642. When I carried it I used a Belly band that seemed to work well. I just could not see just five shots and went after the smallest, lightest, 9MM I could find. At that time it was a GLOCK 17. '86-'87 or such.

After several guns and some years I found out that I owned among other guns ranging from NAA 5 shot 22 Mag up and thru SAA 45 Colt and 44 Mag.

A couple KelTecs one a 9mm and a 40 S&W. The 40 was a hop toad. But the 9mm shot like my Glock 17 only a lot smaller and way lighter.

From there I went to the P 32 then up to the P38T. All have 2 shot extended grips. I've done the Fluff and Buff to all i have. They are very reliable.

With the new technology coming down the Pike I'm building confidence in the 380. I trust there is going to be some break-throughs like there has been with the 9mm in the last 15 years. IE,,,, Buffalo Bore and Hydro Shocks, etc!

I've always appreciated, "Fast, cheap, and Easy"! So my eye is on a new Glock 42. Another Kel Tec P11, 9mm, or converting my KT P40 to 9mm.

My requirements these days.. I'm (mid 70's).

Less than 1#. less than 1" wide, Minimum 380 calibre, at least 10 shots,
No holsters required.

I've been using side clips forever, it seems, and clip them IWB with no belt required. I can carry several of these little guys for the size and weight of steel snubby or my G 29 and so many more shots.

Just a couple days ago I wanted to see what I could get by with with zero printing in a public place. Our Senior Center and yes other oldsters there pack as well but few if any know who. Nor care!!!

I managed two P32 KT/s. Two P38T/s. One P11.
all clipped IWB,,, Wranglers full cut with suspenders and Wrangler snap shirt tail out.

AND was not uncomfortable. That's a lot of shooting with very little weight.
Not to even mention what my wife was packing,,, IF she was??? YMMV

When we got home from lunch there I began to pull them off me and lay them out to put away. She took one look and ask me ,,,," You expecting some trouble today?"

Itsa Bughunt · March 18, 2017, 11:48 PM

I had a Ruger LCR but the DAO irritated me, so I got a Taurus 85 instead. It's a nice gun and I shoot it well. I think I'd like a snub that's a little lighter though.

tallball · March 19, 2017, 05:00 AM

The Taurus View is easily the smallest one I have ever seen.

turkeestalker · March 19, 2017, 06:45 AM

I bought one of the Taurus Non-View revolvers last year purely out of curiosity,
and it is hands down the smallest and lightest five shot .38 Special on the market.

I was actually surprised how it groups at 7 yards, but would not consider it much more than a last ditch effort back up belly gun.
There is just no reasonable way to hang onto it.
I have to adjust my grip after each round fired even with my average size mitts.
It will consistently draw blood on the second cylinder full of standard velocity loads without a glove on my hand.

I have no doubt that it will work when you need it to but I don't believe that it is a good choice for a primary carry firearm.

Fogey mentioned his growing confidence in .380ACP and I'll admit that I can understand why.
Thinking along those lines, I recently had a chance to handle one of the Taurus M380 revolvers.
Smaller than any revolver that I've seen that throws a projectile that diameter.

Almost bought that one to satisfy my curiosity as well.... and I just may yet.

dgludwig · March 19, 2017, 02:54 PM

Quote:

I want to get the smallest concealable 38 but I can't tell which that might be.

Likely, a derringer-though I'm not an advocate of one.

lee n. field · March 19, 2017, 07:15 PM

Quote:

I want to get the smallest concealable 38 but I can't tell which that might be. The bodyguard? The scandium one? Something from Tarus?

Smallest -- probably Taurus' little "thalidomide gun", the View.

If you need to go smaller than the typical S&W 642 or Ruber LCR, you probably really want one of the micro .380s. An LCP or another of the Kel Tec clones.

jrothWA · March 19, 2017, 07:52 PM

M37 S&W.

Second would be the Charter Arms, Undercoverer.

Enjoy.

Bill DeShivs · March 19, 2017, 08:10 PM

"Thalidomide gun!" I love it!

FrankenMauser · March 19, 2017, 08:13 PM

As mentioned already, the S&W J-frames and Ruger LCR (and LCRx) are 'obvious' choices.
Right along with that, you'll find the (heavy) Ruger SP101.
And down a bit on the quality scale, there are the Charter 'Undercover' revolvers (J-frame size); and the Taurus offerings.

I own, have owned, or have spent a reasonable amount of time with the SP101 (various configurations), LCR, a Taurus, and some S&W J-frames (various configurations and "weight" brackets).

My personal preference is for the LCR.
While it feels a little bigger sometimes, it is much nicer to shoot than the J-frames, weighs notably less than the SP101, and isn't as hard on the hands as some of the 'exotic', light-weight J-frames.
Plus... With the LCR, I can actually hit a target at 25 yards. The J-frames with standard sights? Nope. Not a chance.

DPris · March 19, 2017, 08:38 PM

Quit shooting at 25-yard dimes with J-Frames!

Denis

2123 · March 19, 2017, 09:52 PM

Hard to find much anything smaller (compact) than a S&W 642.

Nice thing is, it's completely pocket proof. Nothing to snag on, and it can be easily fired from inside a coat-pocket.

L-2 · March 19, 2017, 10:26 PM

Although this thread is in the revolver sub-forum, the original question didn't specify revolver. Here's the smallest firearm I can think of in .38Special:

https://bondarms.com/bond-arms-handguns/girl-mini/

It's a Bond Arms derringer.

Bill DeShivs · March 19, 2017, 10:48 PM

Bond Arms Derringers are about the same size as a "J" frame S&W and are heavier.

DPris · March 19, 2017, 11:15 PM

Y'wanna go derringer & small, go Cobra in .38.
Quality not near as good, but smaller.

Middle of the road in derringers would be ADC, good quality, and smaller & lighter than the Bond.
Denis

James K · March 20, 2017, 12:01 AM

I have owned (and carried) some derringers, both one and two shot, SA and DAO; I do NOT recommend any of them. If you need a .38 or specifically a .38 Special, the other folks have responded well. But if ".38" includes .380 ACP, the Ruger LCP is pretty good - light, concealable, adequate for most uses and smaller than any .38 Special revolver. Plus, it holds 7 rounds, where most small revolvers hold only 5.

Jim

DPris · March 20, 2017, 01:00 AM

I don't recommend a derringer either, just responding to mention of the Bond to say it's neither small nor the smallest .38 Special.

Denis

FrankenMauser · March 20, 2017, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Quit shooting at 25-yard dimes with J-Frames!
Denis

A friendly poke, in jest. I understand.

But, in all seriousness, I've never been able to do much with the boat-rudder sight on the standard J-frame snubbies.
I've messed with everything from .357 AirLites, to AirWeights, to steel frames.
To me, that crappy sight is as useful as the "sights" on a derringer: Stick in someone's gut and pull the trigger.

The best I ever did was with my S&W 642 (Lady Smith Airweight .38 +P)
At 7 yards, I could hold a 5-8" group. As bad as that sounds, that's really all I could manage.
I was about as good with a S&W 360 ("Scandium"/Titanium AirLite .357), but that damned thing made bullets jump crimp every 3-5 rounds, no matter what ammo was used or who was shooting it.
Sure, it usually worked. But, how many times would it go bang before it locked up?

(It happened far too frequently.)

I'd rather have a Ruger LCP than a J-frame.
...Which, coincidentally, is pretty much what happened to my 642. I traded the 642 in on an LCR (.327 Fed). And then I bought an LCP a few weeks later, for when I wanted just a little more concealment.
In practical use, I carry the LCR and LCP about equally. (Favoring the LCR during the winter and the LCP during the summer ... with a few other things thrown in on special occasions, here and/or there.)

rodfac · March 20, 2017, 08:31 AM

StraightShooter, gives some good advice here:

Quote:

I suspect that what you really want is the smallest 38 that is good quality and reliable. In my opinion, the choices in this category are a J-frame Smith & Wesson or a Ruger LCR. Within those choices, my favorite is a no-lock Smith & Wesson model 642, but really any J-frame or LCR (or LCRx) is fine.

In that regard, I'd go with the Smith, then the Ruger. For a pocket piece, the Smith Airweights make sense. Rod

DPris · March 20, 2017, 01:05 PM

Agree the Js don't have good "combat" sights.

Last September did a piece that involved an older pre-lock/MIM 60 with four loads off the rest at 25 yards.
4 9/16 INS
6 INS
3 15/16 INS
4 7/16 INS

Best five-shot groups each load.
OK for torso, not OK for bull's-eye.

Denis

March 18, 2017, 09:13 PM	#1
MikeGoob Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Posts: 876	Please help--What is the SMALLEST .38? I want to get the smallest concealable 38 but I can't tell which that might be. The bodyguard? The scandium one? Something from Tarus? Please help. Thanks guys

March 18, 2017, 10:05 PM	#2
cc-hangfire Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2014 Posts: 304	I trust some more knowledgeable wheelgun folks will come along shortly, but I'll report what I know about common guns. I have a Ruger LCR & a S&W 642, and I had a Charter Undercover & a Taurus 85. The cylinder, barrel, & frame on all four are very close to the same. Just the geometry on getting 5 cartridges into a cylinder with modern metallurgy work out to about the same size for all these. Ruger wins on conceal-abity due to how their grips attach. I have the bantam boot grip on mine & it makes the LCR most concealable. The Taurus 85 View & Non-view may have a smaller grip, but I haven't held one and I read that those grips are so small that they impact shootability - that would depend on your hand size. The Taurus 85 I had wore more standard sized grips and I didn't experiment with other options. Last edited by cc-hangfire; March 18, 2017 at 10:13 PM.

March 18, 2017, 10:57 PM	#5
straightshooterjake Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2016 Posts: 122	I suspect that what you really want is the smallest 38 that is good quality and reliable. In my opinion, the choices in this category are a J-frame Smith & Wesson or a Ruger LCR. Within those choices, my favorite is a no-lock Smith & Wesson model 642, but really any J-frame or LCR (or LCRx) is fine. Some people will tell you that some other brands are just as good and maybe a little smaller or a bit cheaper. They may be right, but I'll still stick with a Smith or a Ruger. If you really need something smaller than J-frame Smith, then I would suggest a .380 automatic. I am not a fan of the .380 round, but you can get a .380 that is a bit smaller and much thinner than any revolver. And if you need something that is very small and concealable, then you have to make hard compromises. I consider a .380 to be acceptable, but I'd certainly rather have a .38. __________________ My blog: http://straightshooterjake.blogspot.com/

March 18, 2017, 11:21 PM	#6
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	First thing that came to mind is the no-longer-produced Taurus View (or NON-View). At 10 oz, it's probably the lightest but has little to no grip. Still a good number of them on Gunbroker if you're brave. On a more traditional scale, the S&W 340 or 360 PD Airlite is just over 11 oz. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

March 18, 2017, 11:40 PM	#7
Fogey Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2017 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 12	I have a Smith 642. When I carried it I used a Belly band that seemed to work well. I just could not see just five shots and went after the smallest, lightest, 9MM I could find. At that time it was a GLOCK 17. '86-'87 or such. After several guns and some years I found out that I owned among other guns ranging from NAA 5 shot 22 Mag up and thru SAA 45 Colt and 44 Mag. A couple KelTecs one a 9mm and a 40 S&W. The 40 was a hop toad. But the 9mm shot like my Glock 17 only a lot smaller and way lighter. From there I went to the P 32 then up to the P38T. All have 2 shot extended grips. I've done the Fluff and Buff to all i have. They are very reliable. With the new technology coming down the Pike I'm building confidence in the 380. I trust there is going to be some break-throughs like there has been with the 9mm in the last 15 years. IE,,,, Buffalo Bore and Hydro Shocks, etc! I've always appreciated, "Fast, cheap, and Easy"! So my eye is on a new Glock 42. Another Kel Tec P11, 9mm, or converting my KT P40 to 9mm. My requirements these days.. I'm (mid 70's). Less than 1#. less than 1" wide, Minimum 380 calibre, at least 10 shots, No holsters required. I've been using side clips forever, it seems, and clip them IWB with no belt required. I can carry several of these little guys for the size and weight of steel snubby or my G 29 and so many more shots. Just a couple days ago I wanted to see what I could get by with with zero printing in a public place. Our Senior Center and yes other oldsters there pack as well but few if any know who. Nor care!!! I managed two P32 KT/s. Two P38T/s. One P11. all clipped IWB,,, Wranglers full cut with suspenders and Wrangler snap shirt tail out. AND was not uncomfortable. That's a lot of shooting with very little weight. Not to even mention what my wife was packing,,, IF she was??? YMMV When we got home from lunch there I began to pull them off me and lay them out to put away. She took one look and ask me ,,,," You expecting some trouble today?" Last edited by Fogey; March 18, 2017 at 11:49 PM.

March 18, 2017, 10:15 PM	#3
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	I have both a Taurus 85 and a S&W 36. The Smith is slightly smaller and lighter. Neither are a problem, weight-wise when I carry one or the other in a pocket holster (front, right-hand pants/cargo shorts pocket).

March 18, 2017, 10:33 PM	#4
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	I like the 642 for pocket carry, the steel guns are too heavy for me other than a belt holster.

March 18, 2017, 11:48 PM	#8
Itsa Bughunt Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2017 Location: Red Sector A, Colorado Posts: 118	I had a Ruger LCR but the DAO irritated me, so I got a Taurus 85 instead. It's a nice gun and I shoot it well. I think I'd like a snub that's a little lighter though. __________________ A ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

March 19, 2017, 05:00 AM	#9
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	The Taurus View is easily the smallest one I have ever seen.

March 19, 2017, 06:45 AM	#10
turkeestalker Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2015 Location: Cottleville, Missouri Posts: 1,115	I bought one of the Taurus Non-View revolvers last year purely out of curiosity, and it is hands down the smallest and lightest five shot .38 Special on the market. I was actually surprised how it groups at 7 yards, but would not consider it much more than a last ditch effort back up belly gun. There is just no reasonable way to hang onto it. I have to adjust my grip after each round fired even with my average size mitts. It will consistently draw blood on the second cylinder full of standard velocity loads without a glove on my hand. I have no doubt that it will work when you need it to but I don't believe that it is a good choice for a primary carry firearm. Fogey mentioned his growing confidence in .380ACP and I'll admit that I can understand why. Thinking along those lines, I recently had a chance to handle one of the Taurus M380 revolvers. Smaller than any revolver that I've seen that throws a projectile that diameter. Almost bought that one to satisfy my curiosity as well.... and I just may yet. __________________ Vegetarian... primitive word for lousy hunter!

March 19, 2017, 07:52 PM	#13
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	ANy urrent J-frame, as I have a... M37 S&W. Second would be the Charter Arms, Undercoverer. Enjoy.

March 19, 2017, 08:10 PM	#14
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	"Thalidomide gun!" I love it! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

March 19, 2017, 08:13 PM	#15
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	As mentioned already, the S&W J-frames and Ruger LCR (and LCRx) are 'obvious' choices. Right along with that, you'll find the (heavy) Ruger SP101. And down a bit on the quality scale, there are the Charter 'Undercover' revolvers (J-frame size); and the Taurus offerings. I own, have owned, or have spent a reasonable amount of time with the SP101 (various configurations), LCR, a Taurus, and some S&W J-frames (various configurations and "weight" brackets). My personal preference is for the LCR. While it feels a little bigger sometimes, it is much nicer to shoot than the J-frames, weighs notably less than the SP101, and isn't as hard on the hands as some of the 'exotic', light-weight J-frames. Plus... With the LCR, I can actually hit a target at 25 yards. The J-frames with standard sights? Nope. Not a chance. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

March 19, 2017, 08:38 PM	#16
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Quit shooting at 25-yard dimes with J-Frames! Denis

March 19, 2017, 09:52 PM	#17
2123 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2014 Location: It changes.....a lot. Posts: 356	Hard to find much anything smaller (compact) than a S&W 642. Nice thing is, it's completely pocket proof. Nothing to snag on, and it can be easily fired from inside a coat-pocket. __________________ Airborne Rangers Lead The Way.

March 19, 2017, 10:26 PM	#18
L-2 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Nevada Posts: 523	Although this thread is in the revolver sub-forum, the original question didn't specify revolver. Here's the smallest firearm I can think of in .38Special: https://bondarms.com/bond-arms-handguns/girl-mini/ It's a Bond Arms derringer. __________________ (former) Glock Armorer 1911 Armorer LEO (retired)

March 19, 2017, 10:48 PM	#19
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	Bond Arms Derringers are about the same size as a "J" frame S&W and are heavier. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

March 19, 2017, 11:15 PM	#20
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Y'wanna go derringer & small, go Cobra in .38. Quality not near as good, but smaller. Middle of the road in derringers would be ADC, good quality, and smaller & lighter than the Bond. Denis

March 20, 2017, 12:01 AM	#21
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I have owned (and carried) some derringers, both one and two shot, SA and DAO; I do NOT recommend any of them. If you need a .38 or specifically a .38 Special, the other folks have responded well. But if ".38" includes .380 ACP, the Ruger LCP is pretty good - light, concealable, adequate for most uses and smaller than any .38 Special revolver. Plus, it holds 7 rounds, where most small revolvers hold only 5. Jim

March 20, 2017, 01:00 AM	#22
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	I don't recommend a derringer either, just responding to mention of the Bond to say it's neither small nor the smallest .38 Special. Denis

March 20, 2017, 01:05 PM	#25
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Agree the Js don't have good "combat" sights. Last September did a piece that involved an older pre-lock/MIM 60 with four loads off the rest at 25 yards. 4 9/16 INS 6 INS 3 15/16 INS 4 7/16 INS Best five-shot groups each load. OK for torso, not OK for bull's-eye. Denis