bullet test media??

Mobuck · March 24, 2017, 07:15 AM

Has/does anyone use bundled wet cardboard for testing? When I was working, I had access to unlimited amounts of waste newsprint that I found worked well. Now, I have access to a supply of boxes that could be handled similarly but am concerned the wet cardboard will simply break up the bullets(over expand) rather than mush like wet newsprint does.
We've been using water filled milk jugs but even though spectacular on impact, I don't feel they give a realistic representation of bullet performance-there's no permanent cavity.

g.willikers · March 24, 2017, 10:30 AM

Supposedly, the best bullet testing media is a cadaver.
Not necessarily from your local morgue, though.
Pre-shot pigs are often used.

T. O'Heir · March 24, 2017, 12:48 PM

"...spectacular on impact..." Not as good as 48 ounce cans of tomato juice. The 12 gauge slug was particularly, um, spectacular. The lid of the can went up and over a 50 foot high back stop on a CF range. Called it a firepower demo. snicker.
Your issue is what cartridge's bullet you think needs further testing than what the manufacturer's ballistics engineers already did. It a rimfire or a centre fire rifle cartridge? Each requires different thickness of back stop.
A .22 LR will be stopped by about 2 feet of dry newspapers stuffed tight in a cardboard box. Any .308 will go right through that. And the .22's did break up. Seems to me the forensics types use 8 to 10 feet of water at an angle. NOT a swimming pool like those two idiots on Mythbusters.
Cardboard isn't solid. It's mostly air. Even when wet.

ShootistPRS · March 24, 2017, 06:44 PM

Back when I was testing bullets I wanted to know two things; How they expanded and how far they penetrated. I needed to have a media that was prone to give effects that could be duplicated every time.
That was impossible with paper wet or otherwise. I looked for a suitable test media and found two; ballistic gelatin and water and they were both used by Dr. Fackler. Of the two water was more stable and the least expensive. I built a Fackler box and started testing. I had to improve on the box several times to make it strong enough to stay together with rifle rounds and used it for several years testing my hunting bullets/rounds and my pistol bullets and rounds.
With the calibers I have added to my collection and all the new bullets with improved technology I may have to build another Fackler box and do some new tests.

thallub · March 24, 2017, 07:38 PM

Live wild hogs make fantastic test media.

ShootistPRS · March 24, 2017, 07:58 PM

They do indeed but the results are not easily duplicated from one shot to the next.

Gunplummer · March 24, 2017, 09:50 PM

Cadavers were tried with the Kennedy tests. They went to live goats and who knows what else. I don't believe anything but the real thing would work. I used to shoot into tied up newspapers @ about one foot to test reamers out. You would not believe how far a soft point bullet will go in without really expanding. On the other hand, a 160 gr 6.5x55 will literally tear a ground hog in half. I try to stick with the old "tried and true" bullets. It is hard because of all the "New, improved" bullets replacing them.

March 24, 2017, 07:15 AM	#1
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	bullet test media?? Has/does anyone use bundled wet cardboard for testing? When I was working, I had access to unlimited amounts of waste newsprint that I found worked well. Now, I have access to a supply of boxes that could be handled similarly but am concerned the wet cardboard will simply break up the bullets(over expand) rather than mush like wet newsprint does. We've been using water filled milk jugs but even though spectacular on impact, I don't feel they give a realistic representation of bullet performance-there's no permanent cavity.

March 24, 2017, 10:30 AM	#2
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Supposedly, the best bullet testing media is a cadaver. Not necessarily from your local morgue, though. Pre-shot pigs are often used. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

March 24, 2017, 12:48 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...spectacular on impact..." Not as good as 48 ounce cans of tomato juice. The 12 gauge slug was particularly, um, spectacular. The lid of the can went up and over a 50 foot high back stop on a CF range. Called it a firepower demo. snicker. Your issue is what cartridge's bullet you think needs further testing than what the manufacturer's ballistics engineers already did. It a rimfire or a centre fire rifle cartridge? Each requires different thickness of back stop. A .22 LR will be stopped by about 2 feet of dry newspapers stuffed tight in a cardboard box. Any .308 will go right through that. And the .22's did break up. Seems to me the forensics types use 8 to 10 feet of water at an angle. NOT a swimming pool like those two idiots on Mythbusters. Cardboard isn't solid. It's mostly air. Even when wet. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

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March 24, 2017, 06:44 PM	#4
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	Back when I was testing bullets I wanted to know two things; How they expanded and how far they penetrated. I needed to have a media that was prone to give effects that could be duplicated every time. That was impossible with paper wet or otherwise. I looked for a suitable test media and found two; ballistic gelatin and water and they were both used by Dr. Fackler. Of the two water was more stable and the least expensive. I built a Fackler box and started testing. I had to improve on the box several times to make it strong enough to stay together with rifle rounds and used it for several years testing my hunting bullets/rounds and my pistol bullets and rounds. With the calibers I have added to my collection and all the new bullets with improved technology I may have to build another Fackler box and do some new tests.

March 24, 2017, 07:38 PM	#5
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	Live wild hogs make fantastic test media.

March 24, 2017, 07:58 PM	#6
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	They do indeed but the results are not easily duplicated from one shot to the next.

March 24, 2017, 09:50 PM	#7
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Cadavers were tried with the Kennedy tests. They went to live goats and who knows what else. I don't believe anything but the real thing would work. I used to shoot into tied up newspapers @ about one foot to test reamers out. You would not believe how far a soft point bullet will go in without really expanding. On the other hand, a 160 gr 6.5x55 will literally tear a ground hog in half. I try to stick with the old "tried and true" bullets. It is hard because of all the "New, improved" bullets replacing them.