Pffffftt

Evil Dog · June 10, 2007, 04:03 PM

Hmm.... not a sound I like to hear when out shooting. Was out yesterday burning off the last of a thousand rounds or so of 38 Spl that I had loaded probably 8 or 9 years ago.... 160gr cast SWC and 4.8gr Unique if I remember correctly.

This had all been loaded on a Dillon Square Deal that I had bought at a yard sale. Have long since traded off that press as it had the habit of occasionally dumping the entire tube of primers for no reason at all. Had also experienced several high primers... less than 1% but still more than I care for.

Yesterday I am out at the range basically just firing it off into a dirt berm just to get rid of the last 150 rounds. Then one just went "pffffft".... wasn't any doubt in my mind what had happened.... no powder. Bullet was lodged between cylinder and barrel effectively locking everything up. Fortunately I had an aluminum cleaning rod with me and it was no big deal to drive the bullet back to where the cylinder could be opened. Happened again 2 more times in that particular box of 50... definitely not a good thing. That cleaning rod is never going to be the same again.

Decided to just pull the bullets from the last box and a half rather than shooting them... found 3 more sans powder. Evidently that Dillon powder measure didn't always function as designed.

For the past 6 years or more all of my loading has been on an old Pacific single stage press. Progressives may be faster but I think I will stay with the one-step-at-a-time method. No high primers, no questionable powder charges.

Will add a piece of 5/16" brass rod to my shooting bag just in case.

amamnn · June 10, 2007, 08:33 PM

Unique does not meter all that well in loads under 6 grains, in my experience. Since you say there was no powder we will assume you checked carefully--lately there has been some trouble with CCI small pistol primers. I had 5 bad ones here recently and the shop where I got then reports a few more. I blamed the first two on the light Unique load, but the next three were with heavier loads of 231, which meters quite well and the loads were in excess of 6 grains.

Evil Dog · June 10, 2007, 11:10 PM

Haven't used anything but the Winchester Small Pistol Standard primers in years. These were all Winchester primers. After I got home I pulled the bullets from the cases that went pffffftt, definitely no powder or powder residue. When pulling bullets from the remainder of the lot I found 3 more that were definitely empty cases. A single stage press may be a lot slower but it also removes any doubt.

Walkalong · June 11, 2007, 11:17 AM

I've loaded many, many rounds on my progressive with never a Pffffffttt. It's not the progressive's fault. People get to caught up in loading fast with them and bypass the safety steps they normally do with a single station. Perhaps progressives are not for everyone.

I make sure the handle goes all the way up and all the way down EVERY time. I SEE each and every charge in the case or I do not put a bullet in it. I have an LED light shining into the case. I don't go as fast as I can, I go as fast as I can safely. I still load quite a number of rounds in a short period of time. I have no idea how many "per hour" I can do as I have never timed it. I produce loaded rounds as fast as I can go and be sure of quality rounds.

dodgestdshift · June 12, 2007, 05:44 PM

Be very careful when driving bullets out of the barrel. You must support the cylinder and not place a strain on the linkage holding the cylinder to the gun. I did that once and had to have a gunsmith repair major damage. If the bullet is completely in the barrel you still should support the open cylinder to prevent damage to the gun, but especially if the bullet has not completely cleared the cylinder and is partly in the barrel.

crowbeaner · June 12, 2007, 07:01 PM

I owned an SDB and loaded several thousand rounds on it. Never had a problem as long as I cycled the op arm fully. Iloaded 10mm and .38/357s on it. Sold it to a friend and he changed it over to .45. He hasn't stopped grinning yet. Now I use my old 450, but I don't have the auto powder drop installed, I have to pump the charge bar as a step. This slows me down some, but allows me to visually check every round. As long as I remember to fill the primer tube, I don't have any problems. Never had a Pffft but I have had a PERRK.

cdrt · June 12, 2007, 07:12 PM

Know how you feel about the Dillon Square Deal. I had one in .38 Special and the primers were always screwing up. I had it repaired and sold it. The person who bought it had the same problems even after having it repaired again. They sold it and bought a 650.

As for me, I found an old Star reloader in .38 Special to match the one I have in .45 ACP. They may be old technology but they never break and the primers seat on the down stroke, unlike the SDB.

Gewehr98 · June 13, 2007, 01:10 PM

Many thousands of rounds through mine, never a primer problem. The only pffffts I have are after eating Taco Bell. I do, however, buy the Dillon tune-up kits and keep my machine (one of several Dillon progressives) well lubed and clean. A little preventive maintenance goes a long way, and just because the brochure says you can crank out 1000 rounds/hr doesn't mean you should...

BigJimP · June 13, 2007, 06:17 PM

I have friends who use the Square Deal B and they like it a lot - but like any press it does require checking the powder drop quite a bit just to make sure. Like others have told you, there are a number of things that can cause the problem ( something loose on press, operator error, etc ).

I'm not saying you can't use a single stage press - but Dillon also makes the XL-650 press and it has a "powder check station" in the press that I think is worth it's weight in gold. It won't tell you if you're off 0.2 grain but it will tell you if you're either high or low maybe 1.0 grain. It will definitely tell you if you didn't get a powder drop at all. I would suggest you take a good look at the Dillon 650. With the electric case feeder on it - it will do 500 - 750 rounds an hour very easily or 10 - 15 boxes. Like you, I keep a lot of inventory, but setting up the press or changing calibers is not that big a deal and it's realy easy to crank out 30 boxes per caliber and put them in inventory.

Evil Dog · June 13, 2007, 06:47 PM

Actually I did have a Dillon 650 around the same time and loved it. Used it exclusively for loading 45 Long Colt back when I was still doing the SASS thing. Can't say as I was all that impressed with the powder check option though... was barely loud enough to hear. The electric case feed was awesome. I also jury rigged up a case counter so that I would know how many rounds had been loaded. After I quit the SASS thing I sold the 650 for real close to what I had paid for it. Just didn't need the volume any longer.

layusn1 · June 16, 2007, 09:08 PM

I think I'm going with Evil Dog in this one. I have a progressive and it can crank out some decent ammo at a decent pace, I prime and prep everything off press before I start though, but I started out on my Lee single stage press and I think I might just go back to doing things that way. I don't really think that the the time I save is worth the trade offs or potential hazards. I'm not saying that I engage in unsafe loading practices, I'm just saying that life happens and Murphy's law takes effect every now and then but if your doing things on a single stage, nice and slow, taking your time, relaxing and enjoying what your doing instead of trying to see how fast you can crank out plinking ammo you reduce the odds of those things happening and might just make some more consistent and higher quality ammo. I know thats a debate for the ages so I'm just saying thats my opinion on the matter and leavin it there...happy loading, happier shooting, and an even happier early Father's day everybody.

Evil Dog · June 17, 2007, 01:12 AM

My normal 38 Spl load is 4.5gr W-231 with a cast 160gr RN (Lyman #358311). I drop the powder charge with an ancient Lyman #55 powder measure... how long has it been since they painted them gray? Have recently added a baffle to the bottom of the powder reservoir... what a difference. The dropped powder charge seems a lot more consistent now and I don't have to try to maintain the reservoir at a certain fill level.

TEDDY · June 17, 2007, 02:25 PM

I have an RCBS GREEN MACHINE it is very good to me but I had trouble with priming so I prime cases with Lee hand primer took decapper out and then load.my Lee 1000 gave trouble with primers so I decap clean prime with Lee and then load.works for me as its less to watch on the presses.the Lee turret I took of the rod and use as a single stage.do one stage at time.I use 700x for all my pistol loads.25acp/32s/380/38/45.unique for 45 colt.38 spec 2.8 with 148gr wc.45=3.6 with 200grswc.shoot 50 rds at session.I want accuracy not speed.when I was younger I could keep them all in the X ring at 50 ft.when I moved south gave away 50 trophys keep the medals.age does get you

June 10, 2007, 04:03 PM	#1
Evil Dog Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: So Cal Desert Posts: 88	Pffffftt Hmm.... not a sound I like to hear when out shooting. Was out yesterday burning off the last of a thousand rounds or so of 38 Spl that I had loaded probably 8 or 9 years ago.... 160gr cast SWC and 4.8gr Unique if I remember correctly. This had all been loaded on a Dillon Square Deal that I had bought at a yard sale. Have long since traded off that press as it had the habit of occasionally dumping the entire tube of primers for no reason at all. Had also experienced several high primers... less than 1% but still more than I care for. Yesterday I am out at the range basically just firing it off into a dirt berm just to get rid of the last 150 rounds. Then one just went "pffffft".... wasn't any doubt in my mind what had happened.... no powder. Bullet was lodged between cylinder and barrel effectively locking everything up. Fortunately I had an aluminum cleaning rod with me and it was no big deal to drive the bullet back to where the cylinder could be opened. Happened again 2 more times in that particular box of 50... definitely not a good thing. That cleaning rod is never going to be the same again. Decided to just pull the bullets from the last box and a half rather than shooting them... found 3 more sans powder. Evidently that Dillon powder measure didn't always function as designed. For the past 6 years or more all of my loading has been on an old Pacific single stage press. Progressives may be faster but I think I will stay with the one-step-at-a-time method. No high primers, no questionable powder charges. Will add a piece of 5/16" brass rod to my shooting bag just in case. __________________ Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)

June 10, 2007, 08:33 PM	#2
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	Unique does not meter all that well in loads under 6 grains, in my experience. Since you say there was no powder we will assume you checked carefully--lately there has been some trouble with CCI small pistol primers. I had 5 bad ones here recently and the shop where I got then reports a few more. I blamed the first two on the light Unique load, but the next three were with heavier loads of 231, which meters quite well and the loads were in excess of 6 grains. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

June 12, 2007, 07:12 PM	#7
cdrt Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: The Lone Star State Posts: 255	Evil Dog Know how you feel about the Dillon Square Deal. I had one in .38 Special and the primers were always screwing up. I had it repaired and sold it. The person who bought it had the same problems even after having it repaired again. They sold it and bought a 650. As for me, I found an old Star reloader in .38 Special to match the one I have in .45 ACP. They may be old technology but they never break and the primers seat on the down stroke, unlike the SDB. __________________ Navy Vet, SWIFT Boat OIC, Distinguished Pistol Shot #1399 USS JOHN S. MCCAIN (DDG-36)

June 13, 2007, 01:10 PM	#8
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Curious about the problems with the Square Deal B... Many thousands of rounds through mine, never a primer problem. The only pffffts I have are after eating Taco Bell. I do, however, buy the Dillon tune-up kits and keep my machine (one of several Dillon progressives) well lubed and clean. A little preventive maintenance goes a long way, and just because the brochure says you can crank out 1000 rounds/hr doesn't mean you should... __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

June 13, 2007, 06:47 PM	#10
Evil Dog Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: So Cal Desert Posts: 88	Actually I did have a Dillon 650 around the same time and loved it. Used it exclusively for loading 45 Long Colt back when I was still doing the SASS thing. Can't say as I was all that impressed with the powder check option though... was barely loud enough to hear. The electric case feed was awesome. I also jury rigged up a case counter so that I would know how many rounds had been loaded. After I quit the SASS thing I sold the 650 for real close to what I had paid for it. Just didn't need the volume any longer. __________________ Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)

June 10, 2007, 11:10 PM	#3
Evil Dog Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: So Cal Desert Posts: 88	Haven't used anything but the Winchester Small Pistol Standard primers in years. These were all Winchester primers. After I got home I pulled the bullets from the cases that went pffffftt, definitely no powder or powder residue. When pulling bullets from the remainder of the lot I found 3 more that were definitely empty cases. A single stage press may be a lot slower but it also removes any doubt. __________________ Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)

June 11, 2007, 11:17 AM	#4
Walkalong Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: Al. Posts: 196	I've loaded many, many rounds on my progressive with never a Pffffffttt. It's not the progressive's fault. People get to caught up in loading fast with them and bypass the safety steps they normally do with a single station. Perhaps progressives are not for everyone. I make sure the handle goes all the way up and all the way down EVERY time. I SEE each and every charge in the case or I do not put a bullet in it. I have an LED light shining into the case. I don't go as fast as I can, I go as fast as I can safely. I still load quite a number of rounds in a short period of time. I have no idea how many "per hour" I can do as I have never timed it. I produce loaded rounds as fast as I can go and be sure of quality rounds.

June 12, 2007, 05:44 PM	#5
dodgestdshift Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Marilla, N.Y. (outside Buffalo N.Y.) Posts: 113	Be very careful when driving bullets out of the barrel. You must support the cylinder and not place a strain on the linkage holding the cylinder to the gun. I did that once and had to have a gunsmith repair major damage. If the bullet is completely in the barrel you still should support the open cylinder to prevent damage to the gun, but especially if the bullet has not completely cleared the cylinder and is partly in the barrel. __________________ The shortest distance between two politicians is through your wallet. Don N.

June 12, 2007, 07:01 PM	#6
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	I owned an SDB and loaded several thousand rounds on it. Never had a problem as long as I cycled the op arm fully. Iloaded 10mm and .38/357s on it. Sold it to a friend and he changed it over to .45. He hasn't stopped grinning yet. Now I use my old 450, but I don't have the auto powder drop installed, I have to pump the charge bar as a step. This slows me down some, but allows me to visually check every round. As long as I remember to fill the primer tube, I don't have any problems. Never had a Pffft but I have had a PERRK.

June 13, 2007, 06:17 PM	#9
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I have friends who use the Square Deal B and they like it a lot - but like any press it does require checking the powder drop quite a bit just to make sure. Like others have told you, there are a number of things that can cause the problem ( something loose on press, operator error, etc ). I'm not saying you can't use a single stage press - but Dillon also makes the XL-650 press and it has a "powder check station" in the press that I think is worth it's weight in gold. It won't tell you if you're off 0.2 grain but it will tell you if you're either high or low maybe 1.0 grain. It will definitely tell you if you didn't get a powder drop at all. I would suggest you take a good look at the Dillon 650. With the electric case feeder on it - it will do 500 - 750 rounds an hour very easily or 10 - 15 boxes. Like you, I keep a lot of inventory, but setting up the press or changing calibers is not that big a deal and it's realy easy to crank out 30 boxes per caliber and put them in inventory.

June 16, 2007, 09:08 PM	#11
layusn1 Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 54	I think I'm going with Evil Dog in this one. I have a progressive and it can crank out some decent ammo at a decent pace, I prime and prep everything off press before I start though, but I started out on my Lee single stage press and I think I might just go back to doing things that way. I don't really think that the the time I save is worth the trade offs or potential hazards. I'm not saying that I engage in unsafe loading practices, I'm just saying that life happens and Murphy's law takes effect every now and then but if your doing things on a single stage, nice and slow, taking your time, relaxing and enjoying what your doing instead of trying to see how fast you can crank out plinking ammo you reduce the odds of those things happening and might just make some more consistent and higher quality ammo. I know thats a debate for the ages so I'm just saying thats my opinion on the matter and leavin it there...happy loading, happier shooting, and an even happier early Father's day everybody. __________________ www.ammobrasstrader.com

June 17, 2007, 01:12 AM	#12
Evil Dog Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: So Cal Desert Posts: 88	My normal 38 Spl load is 4.5gr W-231 with a cast 160gr RN (Lyman #358311). I drop the powder charge with an ancient Lyman #55 powder measure... how long has it been since they painted them gray? Have recently added a baffle to the bottom of the powder reservoir... what a difference. The dropped powder charge seems a lot more consistent now and I don't have to try to maintain the reservoir at a certain fill level. __________________ Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)

June 17, 2007, 02:25 PM	#13
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	Presses I have an RCBS GREEN MACHINE it is very good to me but I had trouble with priming so I prime cases with Lee hand primer took decapper out and then load.my Lee 1000 gave trouble with primers so I decap clean prime with Lee and then load.works for me as its less to watch on the presses.the Lee turret I took of the rod and use as a single stage.do one stage at time.I use 700x for all my pistol loads.25acp/32s/380/38/45.unique for 45 colt.38 spec 2.8 with 148gr wc.45=3.6 with 200grswc.shoot 50 rds at session.I want accuracy not speed.when I was younger I could keep them all in the X ring at 50 ft.when I moved south gave away 50 trophys keep the medals.age does get you

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