Mini-14 or M1 Carbine for home defense - Page 2

Pathfinder45 · December 11, 2018, 06:56 PM

Your last statement shows that you have no need of either. Therefore, get the one that you like.

AK103K · December 11, 2018, 07:05 PM

I had a number of Minis a few decades ago, and they did nothing for me. They still dont now, and even more so, since they cost what they do these days.

The M1 Carbines I have are all USGI, three Inlands and Winchester. Im not saying my experiences here are the norm, but so far for me, they have been consistently unreliable, at least initially as I got them.

With a little work, and some decent mags, Ive gotten things to about a 95% reliability level, but thats about it.

All of my guns have required the bolts to be rebuilt (extractor, ejector, and springs etc), along with a new recoil spring, which brought the reliability up a lot. That, and buying/using new Korean mags.

Mags seem to be a big part of it too, and from what Ive read, they were always considered a throw away/expendable item, and not really meant for longevity. I still have a half dozen or so USGI mags that came with the guns, and pretty much to a one, they are all trouble and usually dont make it through a mag, without a stoppage. The Korean mags are good kit and are generally work well.

Even with good mags and new parts, I still get fairly regular and random stoppages. Ejection is also random and often inconsistent.

I really like the carbines, and have been shooting them all quite a bit over the past six months or so (at least a hundred rounds or so a week out of one of them). As much as I like them, I have other things that I think are a better choice, and the carbines are relegated to "toy" status. Not that they wouldnt/couldnt work, if needed.

rickyrick · December 11, 2018, 07:09 PM

I like Mini14s, however I’m not in a position to give a preference because I know nothing about M1carbines.
However-however, I’ve actually fired a Mini14 inside of a building and it’s a pretty miserable affair.
Mini14 is a great ranch rifle and I’ve used it in that role. Killed lots of feral pigs and everything else down to skunks.
I don’t recommend using it to shoot a skunk.

**44 AMP** · December 11, 2018, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Is it mere rumor, or is it true, that the weapon of choice for Audie Murphy was the m1 Carbine?

It's not a rumor. Go get a copy of "To Hell and Back" and watch it, or read the book. It's the Audie Murphy story, and stars (surprise!) Audie Murphy.

You'll see that what he carried most often was an M1 Carbine. Murphy wasn't a big guy. The Carbine was a good fit, and he was a crack shot with it.

**4V50 Gary** · December 11, 2018, 10:27 PM

Anemic stopping power was mentioned.

John George, Camp Perry Marksman and a soldier who served on Guadacanal and in Merill's Marauders used a M-1 carbine. He simply did head shots to drop people. His book, Shots Fired in Anger is a good read.

Another vote of endorsement for Audie Murphy's book, To Hell and Back.

2damnold4this · December 11, 2018, 11:06 PM

The Mini wasn't around in WWII. If it had been available, it may have been the rifle of choice.

Fishbed77 · December 12, 2018, 10:37 AM

IMHO, a modern semi-auto pistol with modern JHP ammo will serve you better in the confines of an HD role than an M1 Carbine.

COSteve · December 12, 2018, 01:48 PM

Turns out I own and shoot all three mentioned; the Mini-14, M1 Carbine, and .357mag Rossi carbine levergun. Even though my 2 favorite 'toys' are my Rossi .357mag and Mini-14; both with iron sights being significantly more accurate at 200yds than my M1 Carbine and tons of fun to shoot bowling pins at that range with, my choice for HD is in fact my rock stock M1 Carbine.

Why? The compact, light, M1 Carbine is easy to handle inside and it's 110grn rd is roughly equal ballistically to a 125grn .357mag pistol rd which is considered by many to be the premier pistol rd for SD. Yes, but it's a carbine, right? True, however, the OP wants a HD platform and the M1 Carbine's performance at a max of like 40ft (How big is your largest room?) is terrific. Considerably more accurate than a handgun and capable of carrying double the ammo on board.

Besides, you don't need 1 MOA accuracy at 200yds for a HD platform, you need a small, lightweight, easy to use, high capacity carbine that you and your wife are both comfortable with. The M1 Carbine fits the bill perfectly. Being a carbine, it's got considerably more power and practical accuracy in HD role than say a 9mm pistol as well and with up to 30rds capacity, it far exceeds either the 9mm or .357mag revolver in every area. Shooting quality JSP ammo, or in my case 110grn plated bullet handloads that expand significantly faster at such short ranges, I've found that the 30 Carbine rd is perfect for HD.

Why not the Mini-14 or .357mag carbine? As said, the .223/5.56 rd is loud in doors compared to the other 2 choices in my indoor testing, Really Loud!! In addition, the Mini is heavier than either the M1 Carbine or my 20" Rossi .357mag carbine. Further, in my personal testing of mocked up indoor, stud and drywall walls, my plated 110grn 30 Carbine loads at 1,950fps out of an 18" barreled M1 Carbine penetrated less panels than my 158grn plated .357mag loads at 1,822fps out of my 20" Rossi carbine and far less panels than my 62grn Hornady fmj 5.56 loads at 2,860fps out of my 18.5" Mini-14.

Add to that the fact that my M1 Carbine is much, much easier for my wife to operate and has slightly less recoil than my Rossi levergun. Face it, a levergun is not as simple to use as a semi-auto. Add to that the fact that the M1 Carbine is about 1.5lbs lighter than my Mini-14 and it's easy to see why the M1 Carbine is my choice for HD. In fact, it's my wife's favorite centerfire rifle hands down. With only her personal Ruger 10-22 she's had since 1974 ahead of it.

Leaf · December 12, 2018, 03:32 PM

Opting for the M-1 carbine is ignoring the threat of assailant(s) equipped with body armor.

I know a detective who ditched the M-1 carbine after he found it didn't penetrate into the suspect after traveling through a candy rack in a liquor store robbery stakeout. Although admittedly, I'm not sure how much energy is going to be left in a .223 after going through a candy rack either. I do know .223 will penetrate most commonly used body armor in a direct hit absent additional barriers.

amd6547 · December 12, 2018, 05:33 PM

30 carbine fmj will penetrate a pistol quality vest or a Kevlar helmet.
And, Jim Cirillo considered the 30 carbine and the 12ga slug as the only sure things during his time with the NYPD stakeout squad.

Leaf · December 12, 2018, 08:47 PM

Amd6547, I'm glad you and Jim Cirllo seem to like them but I'll decline one for other than use as a range toy unless for some freak reason that is all I have in a given situation. I haven't done the actual research on penetration by a .30 carbine round through ballistic armor so I won't say you are wrong. I have found them to be generally fun to shoot when they work.

I can say with certainty that the .30 M-1 carbine never inspired confidence in me when I carried them on stakeouts. I felt a lot better at the time carrying pump action shotguns on such details (body armor was far less prolific back then).

I never had to actually fire an M-1 carbine at an assailant but I personally found the ones we had in our armory to be jam-o-matics on the range.

I can not remember ever having a department mini-14 jam on me.

davidsog · December 12, 2018, 09:09 PM

Mini-14....ok 5.56mm gave less than spectacular performance in combat at typical Close Quarters.

M1 Carbine .... better

Best:

Quote:

I felt a lot better at the time carrying pump action shotguns

Any shotgun.

A chest full of 00 buck is pretty good at:

Quote:

I want a round that increases the chances of it stopping in the bad guy

davidsog · December 12, 2018, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Opting for the M-1 carbine is ignoring the threat of assailant(s) equipped with body armor.

Practice failure drills or hip girdle shots. I have never seen anyone hit wearing body armor that was able to stay in the fight despite the round not penetrating after taking a round to the chest.

I have a friend that has been hit twice in the chest plate and once in the Mitch. It takes a moment to walk it off, LOL.

Plenty of time for a Mozambique.

rickyrick · December 12, 2018, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Mini-14....ok 5.56mm gave less than spectacular performance in combat at typical Close Quarters.

Try again with civilian ammunition, military ammunition is junk.

davidsog · December 12, 2018, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Try again with civilian ammunition, military ammunition is junk.

Fully tested and no wonder bullets in 5.56mm....6.8mm will replace it.

AK103K · December 12, 2018, 09:34 PM

Quote:

I have never seen anyone hit wearing body armor that was able to stay in the fight despite the round not penetrating after taking a round to the chest.

Ive got an old VHS tape put out by Second Chance Vests that has hours of the owner, Rick Davis, shooing himself point blank (he places the gun right against the vest), with everything from a .22 to a .44mag, and instantly returning fire on targets immediately behind him, and hitting them, and walking around right after, with no obvious effects. He did this to prove that what youre saying, is not the case in reality.

He was also shot with an M1A at point-blank range wearing armored floatations vests designed for the Coast Guard with no ill effects. I believe there were a few 12 gauge shootings too, and again, with no ill effects.

Most of the tape was accounts of numerous police officers saved by their vests, and many of them account for them being able to "instantly" return fire after being shot.

I think a lot of people have learned for TV and the movies, that if youre shot, youre dead, and seem to think that if you shoot someone, "anywhere" they are going to fall down dead with just one shot.

Reality proves otherwise.

rickyrick · December 12, 2018, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Fully tested and no wonder bullets in 5.56mm....6.8mm will replace it.

That statement tells me that you haven’t

AK103K · December 12, 2018, 09:37 PM

Quote:

That statement tells me that you haven’t

I would agree.

Leaf · December 12, 2018, 10:00 PM

I'm thinkin it all depends where you got shot, how many times, with what, and how charged up you were at the time as to how it feels and how fast you recover, even with body armor. Also never assume your assailant is down and out or even that he/she is the only one. Never assume you are down and out no matter where you've been shot either. Keep moving and keep fighting. I didn't even realize I was grazed across my side and arm when I got hit by .45 rounds from a full auto mac even though one of those rounds took off some meat. I thought I had been hit in both knees but it was from going down hard on them diving for cover while shooting. I'm sure I don't have to tell many of you but you sort of go into auto mode in those types of situations and operate purely on training and instinct. Pain becomes something you generally feel later. But then, I've never received a good shot in my ten ring or groin. Other than the situation I mentioned, people always missed me.

Sharkbite · December 12, 2018, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Try again with civilian ammunition, military ammunition is junk.
Fully tested and no wonder bullets in 5.56mm..

And here we go again.....

Jim Watson · December 12, 2018, 11:22 PM

I would add a PCC to the mix. The Ruger 9mm seems well thought out.

rickyrick · December 13, 2018, 12:26 AM

Quote:

And here we go again.....

Sorry, I need to work on not being such a troll

agtman · December 13, 2018, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Mini-14....ok 5.56mm gave less than spectacular performance in combat at typical Close Quarters.

M1 Carbine .... better

Actually, it's worse. Try an M1 Garand in .308/7.62, or the good ol' 30-06.

Both 'fully tested' in many wars, police actions, bush fights, and 'humanitarian' interventions.

Quote:

I felt a lot better at the time carrying pump action shotguns
Any shotgun.

A chest full of 00 buck is pretty good at:

'I want a round that increases the chances of it stopping in the bad guy.'

Apples and oranges.

The subject was centerfire rifle rounds.

Pay attention.

amd6547 · December 13, 2018, 08:55 AM

I did own a Mini once...one of the older ones renowned for their inaccuracy...it was less accurate at 50yds than the M1 Carbine it replaced was at 100yds.
That Mini also jammed occasionally...probably due to the aftermarket mags, which were a requirement back then, since Ruger mags were hard to get.
Sold it.
My CMP Inland has been faultlessly reliable. The only jam was from a faulty Magtech round which had a loose primer pocket and dropped a spent primer in the locking recess.

A cop I knew used the Carbine at Chosin Reservoir, and in the open war race riots in Cleveland. He kept one around all his life.

sarge83 · December 13, 2018, 09:29 AM

I would take the M1 Carbine with a 110 grain JHP lead round. Pretty nasty round for home defense, it will more than get the job done.

December 11, 2018, 10:27 PM	#30
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Anemic stopping power was mentioned. John George, Camp Perry Marksman and a soldier who served on Guadacanal and in Merill's Marauders used a M-1 carbine. He simply did head shots to drop people. His book, Shots Fired in Anger is a good read. Another vote of endorsement for Audie Murphy's book, To Hell and Back. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 12, 2018, 05:33 PM	#35
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	30 carbine fmj will penetrate a pistol quality vest or a Kevlar helmet. And, Jim Cirillo considered the 30 carbine and the 12ga slug as the only sure things during his time with the NYPD stakeout squad. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

December 13, 2018, 08:55 AM	#49
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	I did own a Mini once...one of the older ones renowned for their inaccuracy...it was less accurate at 50yds than the M1 Carbine it replaced was at 100yds. That Mini also jammed occasionally...probably due to the aftermarket mags, which were a requirement back then, since Ruger mags were hard to get. Sold it. My CMP Inland has been faultlessly reliable. The only jam was from a faulty Magtech round which had a loose primer pocket and dropped a spent primer in the locking recess. A cop I knew used the Carbine at Chosin Reservoir, and in the open war race riots in Cleveland. He kept one around all his life. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

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December 11, 2018, 06:56 PM	#26
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	Your last statement shows that you have no need of either. Therefore, get the one that you like.

December 11, 2018, 07:05 PM	#27
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	I had a number of Minis a few decades ago, and they did nothing for me. They still dont now, and even more so, since they cost what they do these days. The M1 Carbines I have are all USGI, three Inlands and Winchester. Im not saying my experiences here are the norm, but so far for me, they have been consistently unreliable, at least initially as I got them. With a little work, and some decent mags, Ive gotten things to about a 95% reliability level, but thats about it. All of my guns have required the bolts to be rebuilt (extractor, ejector, and springs etc), along with a new recoil spring, which brought the reliability up a lot. That, and buying/using new Korean mags. Mags seem to be a big part of it too, and from what Ive read, they were always considered a throw away/expendable item, and not really meant for longevity. I still have a half dozen or so USGI mags that came with the guns, and pretty much to a one, they are all trouble and usually dont make it through a mag, without a stoppage. The Korean mags are good kit and are generally work well. Even with good mags and new parts, I still get fairly regular and random stoppages. Ejection is also random and often inconsistent. I really like the carbines, and have been shooting them all quite a bit over the past six months or so (at least a hundred rounds or so a week out of one of them). As much as I like them, I have other things that I think are a better choice, and the carbines are relegated to "toy" status. Not that they wouldnt/couldnt work, if needed.

December 11, 2018, 07:09 PM	#28
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	I like Mini14s, however I’m not in a position to give a preference because I know nothing about M1carbines. However-however, I’ve actually fired a Mini14 inside of a building and it’s a pretty miserable affair. Mini14 is a great ranch rifle and I’ve used it in that role. Killed lots of feral pigs and everything else down to skunks. I don’t recommend using it to shoot a skunk.

December 11, 2018, 11:06 PM	#31
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	The Mini wasn't around in WWII. If it had been available, it may have been the rifle of choice.

December 12, 2018, 10:37 AM	#32
Fishbed77 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Posts: 4,862	IMHO, a modern semi-auto pistol with modern JHP ammo will serve you better in the confines of an HD role than an M1 Carbine.

December 12, 2018, 01:48 PM	#33
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	Turns out I own and shoot all three mentioned; the Mini-14, M1 Carbine, and .357mag Rossi carbine levergun. Even though my 2 favorite 'toys' are my Rossi .357mag and Mini-14; both with iron sights being significantly more accurate at 200yds than my M1 Carbine and tons of fun to shoot bowling pins at that range with, my choice for HD is in fact my rock stock M1 Carbine. Why? The compact, light, M1 Carbine is easy to handle inside and it's 110grn rd is roughly equal ballistically to a 125grn .357mag pistol rd which is considered by many to be the premier pistol rd for SD. Yes, but it's a carbine, right? True, however, the OP wants a HD platform and the M1 Carbine's performance at a max of like 40ft (How big is your largest room?) is terrific. Considerably more accurate than a handgun and capable of carrying double the ammo on board. Besides, you don't need 1 MOA accuracy at 200yds for a HD platform, you need a small, lightweight, easy to use, high capacity carbine that you and your wife are both comfortable with. The M1 Carbine fits the bill perfectly. Being a carbine, it's got considerably more power and practical accuracy in HD role than say a 9mm pistol as well and with up to 30rds capacity, it far exceeds either the 9mm or .357mag revolver in every area. Shooting quality JSP ammo, or in my case 110grn plated bullet handloads that expand significantly faster at such short ranges, I've found that the 30 Carbine rd is perfect for HD. Why not the Mini-14 or .357mag carbine? As said, the .223/5.56 rd is loud in doors compared to the other 2 choices in my indoor testing, Really Loud!! In addition, the Mini is heavier than either the M1 Carbine or my 20" Rossi .357mag carbine. Further, in my personal testing of mocked up indoor, stud and drywall walls, my plated 110grn 30 Carbine loads at 1,950fps out of an 18" barreled M1 Carbine penetrated less panels than my 158grn plated .357mag loads at 1,822fps out of my 20" Rossi carbine and far less panels than my 62grn Hornady fmj 5.56 loads at 2,860fps out of my 18.5" Mini-14. Add to that the fact that my M1 Carbine is much, much easier for my wife to operate and has slightly less recoil than my Rossi levergun. Face it, a levergun is not as simple to use as a semi-auto. Add to that the fact that the M1 Carbine is about 1.5lbs lighter than my Mini-14 and it's easy to see why the M1 Carbine is my choice for HD. In fact, it's my wife's favorite centerfire rifle hands down. With only her personal Ruger 10-22 she's had since 1974 ahead of it.

December 12, 2018, 03:32 PM	#34
Leaf Junior member Join Date: August 11, 2018 Posts: 198	Opting for the M-1 carbine is ignoring the threat of assailant(s) equipped with body armor. I know a detective who ditched the M-1 carbine after he found it didn't penetrate into the suspect after traveling through a candy rack in a liquor store robbery stakeout. Although admittedly, I'm not sure how much energy is going to be left in a .223 after going through a candy rack either. I do know .223 will penetrate most commonly used body armor in a direct hit absent additional barriers.

December 12, 2018, 08:47 PM	#36
Leaf Junior member Join Date: August 11, 2018 Posts: 198	Amd6547, I'm glad you and Jim Cirllo seem to like them but I'll decline one for other than use as a range toy unless for some freak reason that is all I have in a given situation. I haven't done the actual research on penetration by a .30 carbine round through ballistic armor so I won't say you are wrong. I have found them to be generally fun to shoot when they work. I can say with certainty that the .30 M-1 carbine never inspired confidence in me when I carried them on stakeouts. I felt a lot better at the time carrying pump action shotguns on such details (body armor was far less prolific back then). I never had to actually fire an M-1 carbine at an assailant but I personally found the ones we had in our armory to be jam-o-matics on the range. I can not remember ever having a department mini-14 jam on me.

December 12, 2018, 10:00 PM	#44
Leaf Junior member Join Date: August 11, 2018 Posts: 198	I'm thinkin it all depends where you got shot, how many times, with what, and how charged up you were at the time as to how it feels and how fast you recover, even with body armor. Also never assume your assailant is down and out or even that he/she is the only one. Never assume you are down and out no matter where you've been shot either. Keep moving and keep fighting. I didn't even realize I was grazed across my side and arm when I got hit by .45 rounds from a full auto mac even though one of those rounds took off some meat. I thought I had been hit in both knees but it was from going down hard on them diving for cover while shooting. I'm sure I don't have to tell many of you but you sort of go into auto mode in those types of situations and operate purely on training and instinct. Pain becomes something you generally feel later. But then, I've never received a good shot in my ten ring or groin. Other than the situation I mentioned, people always missed me.

December 12, 2018, 11:22 PM	#46
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	I would add a PCC to the mix. The Ruger 9mm seems well thought out.

December 13, 2018, 09:29 AM	#50
sarge83 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2000 Posts: 426	I would take the M1 Carbine with a 110 grain JHP lead round. Pretty nasty round for home defense, it will more than get the job done.