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Old December 8, 2018, 01:23 AM   #76
hornetguy
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I'll play along... I've owned Taurus firearms for over 30 years... Had a 4" stainless .357 that was really smooth. It appeared that the barrel was over-tightened a tad, as the front sight was tilted ever so slightly to the left.
Had a model 85 that became my wife's gun... kept it for 20 plus years, until I shot someone else's reloads in it and blew it apart with an apparent double load.
I've had a 24/7 Pro in .45 acp for around 20+ years that has been virtually flawless. It doesn't like the semi-wadcutter style bullets, though.
I recently found a matching 24/7 in 9mm in a lgs that came home with me for $200... still haven't gotten to shoot it yet.
I have a PT111 G2 that I've put about 1200 rounds or so through, with ZERO issues. None. It's a great pistol.
I have a TCP that would lock the slide back in the middle of a magazine, until I filed down the hold-open tab so that it wouldn't get caught on a bullet nose in the magazine and lock the slide. Since that adjustment, it's been flawless through 500+ rounds.

My experience with Taurus has been very positive. My PT111 is my "main" CCW, when weather allows clothing that will conceal it.. an un-tucked shirt works pretty well, and a jacket is perfect.

My smaller CCW is a Sig P938... my first "high-end" pistol. So far, it's been reliable.... but on the Sig forum, there are quite a few complaints about issues with the 938 and others. I have seen more complaints about Sigs from Sig owners than I have about the Taurus PT 111 G2. I really like my Sig at this point, having only owned it for about 5 months... but looking at it another way, I could have bought THREE more PT111's for the price of the Sig.

Which one is better? The high-end Sig that puts out 7 rounds flawlessly, or the Taurus with the proven track record of putting out up to 12 rounds flawlessly, for 1/3 of the price?
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Old December 8, 2018, 08:11 AM   #77
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I had a 90's vintage 85CH that worked just fine. My brother has bought a handful of 738s because his kids keep taking them. The PT111 G2C gets good reviews and with sub $200 prices, I may have to pick one up.

Taurus quality has varied through different management over the years, but it seems to be improving again.
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Old December 8, 2018, 08:15 AM   #78
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Which one is better? The high-end Sig that puts out 7 rounds flawlessly, or the Taurus with the proven track record of putting out up to 12 rounds flawlessly, for 1/3 of the price?
Unless your question is intended to be rhetorical, my answer is the SIG.
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Old December 8, 2018, 12:00 PM   #79
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Which one is better? The high-end Sig that puts out 7 rounds flawlessly, or the Taurus with the proven track record of putting out up to 12 rounds flawlessly, for 1/3 of the price?
Unless your question is intended to be rhetorical, my answer is the SIG.
Or like the cliche, but truthful "The 380 in your pocket is better than the 45 you leave at home."

the Taurus with a proven track record you can afford is better than the high end Sig that is still in the case at the gun store where you have been drooling over.
Everyone has the right to self defense. But not everybody can afford a $1000+ gun for it.
To some it may be a Hi-Point. To others a Taurus, Glock, Springfield , S&W etc up the pricing scale. But to those with the deepest pockets, and thickest wallets it's high end guns.
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Old December 8, 2018, 12:52 PM   #80
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Unless your question is intended to be rhetorical, my answer is the SIG.
It was somewhat rhetorical... but also a serious question. Everyone has a different definition of "better".. to some, it is based on higher price, and "established" quality, to others, it is a combination of proven quality combined with "best price".

My experience with Taurus has proven to me that #1, NEVER take internet comments at face value, and #2, always be open minded in your quest for a great carry gun.

If you can afford an H&K, or Sig, and like their design and function, it would be difficult to go wrong. But you should also remain open minded about the proven pistols at a lower price point. The Sig P365 is being touted as the new wonder nine... small, sub-compact, and holds 12 ROUNDS! The PT111 G2 has been doing that almost flawlessly for, what, 5 years now? And, it gives you the option of a manual safety, and double strike ability.
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Old December 8, 2018, 01:22 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Cheapshooter View Post
Or like the cliche, but truthful "The 380 in your pocket is better than the 45 you leave at home."

the Taurus with a proven track record you can afford is better than the high end Sig that is still in the case at the gun store where you have been drooling over.
Everyone has the right to self defense. But not everybody can afford a $1000+ gun for it.
To some it may be a Hi-Point. To others a Taurus, Glock, Springfield , S&W etc up the pricing scale. But to those with the deepest pockets, and thickest wallets it's high end guns.
Price isn't the point.....reliability is. Is spending $200 on a pistol that has a 50% chance of being a dud a better deal than spending $400 on a pistol with a 10% chance of being a dud?

I was a big Taurus fanboy in the '90's. I had a PT-908 that I loved, and a 941 that I still have & enjoy. The one time I used their customer service (weak extractor spring on the 908), they repaired it and refinished the pistol for free....within two weeks. I've recently inherited a PT-145 made then that works great.

Since the 2000's, Taurus QC really tanked. At best, you have a 1/3 chance of getting a dud. And their customer service tanked with it.....likely due to the volume of returns. And they kept this policy up for over a decade.

I don't know about Taurus today, but I haven't seen anything that tells me that things have improved. If anything, the new 1-yr warranty worries me more. I could not, in good conscience, recommend Taurus to anyone today. And I hate that....because I still miss that PT-908.

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Old December 8, 2018, 01:43 PM   #82
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Price isn't the point.....reliability is. Is spending $200 on a pistol that has a 50% chance of being a dud a better deal than spending $400 on a pistol with a 10% chance of being a dud?
But you obviously missed the quote from post #76 that my comments were referring to

Quote:
I have a PT111 G2 that I've put about 1200 rounds or so through, with ZERO issues. None. It's a great pistol.
Reliability was not an issue with this Taurus.
You also must have missed the quote
Quote:
Which one is better? The high-end Sig that puts out 7 rounds flawlessly, or the Taurus with the proven track record of putting out up to 12 rounds flawlessly, for 1/3 of the price?
If not,please direct me to where I can get "high end" Sigs for $400! I would be very interested in a $400 229 Legand.
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Old December 8, 2018, 03:52 PM   #83
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I have heard the stories about Taurus customer service... I have also read on the Sig website of owners having to send their Sig back 4 times to get an issue resolved.

There is no doubt in my mind that Sig produces higher quality handguns than Taurus. This does not mean that Taurus is junk. Cadillac produces higher quality autos than Chevrolet. This does not make a Chevrolet junk. They are fully functional, and cost much less than the Caddy...

I don't have a lot of experience with all the Taurus revolvers, rifles, etc... I have had very positive experience with the PT111 Gen 2, and with the TCP... also the 24/7 pistols. From what I've read, and heard from others, I would say that with those models, a buyer has a 90% chance of getting a very good, trouble free pistol.

With Sig, a buyer probably has a 95-96% chance of getting a trouble free pistol. And, to get that added assurance of quality, you will pay about three times the price.

I'm not knocking Sig, or Ruger (I have an SR9 and love it) or any of the other manufacturers. I am simply pointing out that Taurus is NOT junk. In my mind, the PT111 might be the best value in a 9mm CCW available today. For right at $200 on sale, you get a pistol that is ergonomic, accurate, and flawlessly reliable.
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Old December 9, 2018, 02:03 PM   #84
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Yup, I have one Taurus, a PT111 G2 9mm. I bought it just because the gun shop I dang near live in had it on sale for $159.99 and I said what the hell!

She has been a very good little pistol. I have put 2,350 rounds through her and had only one FTF on the first mag. The reason for so many rounds outta this particular pistol is my buddy told me I was a fool for getting it when I had other pistols that I train with monthly. So I run about a 100 to 175 rounds through her almost every trip to the range. Plus I love to shoot anything that goes bang and also to prove a point that some value handgun are decent for a person to defend themselves with as long as the weapon is tested.

Now I own a bunch of handguns, only one Taurus but this one has earned it's right to ride shotgun in my pickup daily as a back up to my carry piece.

This is all the info I have on this discussion, one good one does not make a perfect series of pistol but I am fond of mine.
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Old December 10, 2018, 06:15 PM   #85
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If not,please direct me to where I can get "high end" Sigs for $400! I would be very interested in a $400 229 Legand.
Well... you can still get trade in .40 229 and 226s for under $500. Not high end, per say, but my ex LEO 229 with SRT stacks up quite well with Legions, side by side. In my opinion.

Also, I dont consider a 938 a high end gun.
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Old December 10, 2018, 06:30 PM   #86
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I've only ever owned 1 Taurus, a PT-92 I bought NIB a few years back. It has run like a champ from Day 1. No complaints. I have no feedback on their customer service because I've never had to make use of it.
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Old December 10, 2018, 06:37 PM   #87
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Also, I dont consider a 938 a high end gun.
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Have you ever bought one?

Mine, the SAS version, cost right at $650, which, to me, places it in the "high end" category. I know that there are many more that are WAY more expensive than that, though...

I was using that expression to differentiate between a "normal" $300 to $450 pistol, that most people buy.

Either way, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just offering my opinions....
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Old December 10, 2018, 06:48 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by hornetguy View Post
Have you ever bought one?

Mine, the SAS version, cost right at $650, which, to me, places it in the "high end" category. I know that there are many more that are WAY more expensive than that, though...

I was using that expression to differentiate between a "normal" $300 to $450 pistol, that most people buy.

Either way, I'm not trying to be argumentative, just offering my opinions....
I have not, but I've been looking at them for a SAO (to match my normal carry 226 SAO carry) option during the hottest summer days when I want a real light gun.

I guess its perspective, i consider "higher end" over 1k and high end starting at over 2.

$500-700 in my estimation is solidly mid grade, encompassing many of the standard duty grade guns be it SIG, HK, Glock, Springfield, S&W, FN, CZ, etc.
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Old December 10, 2018, 07:06 PM   #89
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Price is the object, you get what you pay for. Every now and again you can get a High End
Lemon. Lemons occur more often in low end stuff, the nature of the beast. Go back to when the Taraus, Rossi and the like came on the market. Look at price compared to the price of
the top shelf gun they were made to copy. All prices are up since but you will find the low end guns have creeped up percentage wise. Prices have approached the price of used guns
of higher quality. If you get a good one consider yourself lucky.
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Old December 10, 2018, 08:42 PM   #90
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I think maybe we should define this High End / Low End part of the discussion as neither has a defined reference. Today, with today's gun pricing what exactly is Low End? What exactly is High End? It's like saying my Low End, your Low End and the next person's Low End are all the same when obviously they aren't. The overdue house payment is $1,000 which is not a hell of a lot of money unless of course you don't have $1,000 in which case it's a hell of a lot of money.

A Dan Wesson Valor in stainless is just about a $1,700.00 gun MSRP so is that a High End gun, is $1,700 a lot of money to pay for a single 1911 45 ACP? Would it be a quality gun?

Quote:
I guess its perspective, i consider "higher end" over 1k and high end starting at over 2.
I am about the same but just a little higher. I just happen to like the older Colt Series 70 guns and especially the Gold Cup guns. When I see one like new in box I see them at about $1,500, seldom lower and I see that price point as a moderately priced gun. That would be my perspective and the thing with perspective is everyone has a different perspective.

Older now, with kids grown and having kids of their own my wife and I have much different priorities in how we can spend money. I like that!

Ron
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Old December 13, 2018, 11:44 AM   #91
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I have two experiences.

I bought one of their PT22 mouse guns in 2010. It was junk, and still didn't function properly after a return trip to the warranty department. I sold it to a LGS.

Last year, I bought a 905 (9mm revolver), and so far (knock on the wood grips I put on it) it has ran flawlessly, though that is probably only around 200 rounds. One thing that bothered me though, the moon clips they sold with it were garbage, and would not hold onto rounds at all. My wife bought me a pack of aftermarket ones that are great, however I don't use them at the range, and my G19 is my house gun, so it doesn't really matter.
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