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Old November 17, 2018, 07:11 PM   #1
Chaparral
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Do silencers/suppressors have negative effects on a rifle?

I have a Stag mdl 6 with the long S/S bull barrel in 223. A tack driver!!! I have been contemplating applying for a suppressor and having my barrel fitted with threads. My biggest concern is screwing up a hec of a nice rifle, and wondering if shooting with a suppressor has any adverse effects on the gun.
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Old November 17, 2018, 07:17 PM   #2
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Changes it, but if you get a halfway decent suppressor, improves or at least maintains the accuracy. POI will drop in most cases, so you will need to re-zero.

It is overgassed from the factory and will be more so with a suppressor. If you are using slow burning powders, you will wear gas rings faster and it will run a good bit dirtier. Use faster powders and use and adjustable gas block and you can reap the benefits with no negatives.
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Old November 17, 2018, 07:20 PM   #3
Chaparral
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO View Post
Changes it, but if you get a halfway decent suppressor, improves or at least maintains the accuracy. POI will drop in most cases, so you will need to re-zero.

It is overgassed from the factory and will be more so with a suppressor. If you are using slow burning powders, you will wear gas rings faster and it will run a good bit dirtier. Use faster powders and use and adjustable gas block and you can reap the benefits with no negatives.
Great info. What do you consider a "halfway decent suppressor"?
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Old November 17, 2018, 07:29 PM   #4
Bartholomew Roberts
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With a suppressor, heat will build up faster and it will get dirtier quicker. As Mark mentioned, it will change your point of impact; but I’ve never noticed a negative impact on accuracy.
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Old November 17, 2018, 07:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
"halfway decent suppressor"
Too long of a list. For me, when I am concerned for precision, the first answer is always Thunderbeast. For a lot of rounds in a short amount of time, I still prefer the GemTech Halo...the one that is Marine Proof. But there are lots in between. Read the reviews, features, look at service and warranties.
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Old November 17, 2018, 07:40 PM   #6
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This would be for precision. I will look at the Thunderbeast. Thanks friends.
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Old November 17, 2018, 07:52 PM   #7
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My suggestion: Rather than dismantle a "hec of a nice rifle" to have it threaded, just buy another upper better suited to suppressor use. A mid-gassed 16" or rifle gassed 18" will make a better suppressor host than a "long bull barrel" anyway.
As for the "half way decent suppressor", just make a budget and buy within that limit. I bought a PSD .223 can as a budget purchase and would buy another(or two) simply on performance even though I have more to spend.
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Old November 17, 2018, 08:44 PM   #8
Chaparral
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Great idea. Man I love asking questions here. I know nothing about suppressors. I really didn't want to mess with my Stag Mdl 6. Mobuck that is a great idea.

Thanks for the input! It relieved my anxiety thinking of cutting on the Stag mdl 6.
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Old November 17, 2018, 09:21 PM   #9
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I agree with MarkCO, if you're looking for a precision rifle silencer, Thunder Beast is the best. But if you're looking for a heavy-duty silencer for rapid-fire and/or short barrel use, there are better options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO View Post
For a lot of rounds in a short amount of time, I still prefer the GemTech Halo...the one that is Marine Proof.
The Halo is tough, but it's far from Marine proof. You wouldn't believe the things we break! I managed to break my 590A1 the second time I shot it. And I've destroyed both an Octane 9 and an SWR Wolverine 5.56 silencer, and both are designed as hard-use cans. My wife is constantly annoyed with how many things I accidentally break, the latest was her car door handle. But, being a former Marine infantryman, luckily I have an excuse. Apparently nothing is "grunt proof".
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Old November 18, 2018, 05:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Changes it, but if you get a halfway decent suppressor, improves or at least maintains the accuracy.
This is a bit of a myth. It isn't the suppressor's quality that affects accuracy. I know at one time some companies made a big deal out of saying their suppressors would tighten groups, but that just wasn't accurate. You can put on two or more different high quality suppressors (not at the same time) and get differing group sizes. The issue on accuracy is going to be how much the suppressor changes the barrel's harmonics. You may find that things stay the same or get better with a given ammo. You may find that things get worse with one type of ammo, but improve with another. In other words, adding a suppressor may mean find ammo that works best with that barrel/suppressor combination just like you might have done originally for the rifle before you bought the suppressor.

Quote:
POI will drop in most cases, so you will need to re-zero.
You will only need to rezero if the POI changes and it probably will as noted. I have only witnessed one rifle that didn't have a POI change at 100 yards, although I understand it happens occasionally and you can find a YouTube vid or two that show it.

POI will usually go down as noted and from what I have seen, also goes down to the left. However, there are some Youtube vids that demonstrate down and left, down, down and right, and in a couple of cases, POI actually moved higher.

1-2 MOA off isn't uncommon when adding a suppressor. I have seen as much as 7 MOA.
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Old November 18, 2018, 09:22 AM   #11
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Get yourself a Thunderbeast and a cheapo weighing the same Double Naught Spy, and do the test yourself. The results are irrefutable, definitely not myth.
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Old November 18, 2018, 12:58 PM   #12
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Adding a suppressor you may improve accuracy or decrease accuracy. Ammo, barrel/rifle, and muzzle device all work in harmony with on another. Less accuracy happens even with good suppressors, sometimes.

Here is an article that shows this well...
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/r...te-suppressor/

Interestingly, the Silencerco Specwar (which is considered to be a good suppressor) decreased accuracy and increased accuracy depending on the rifle and the ammo.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/r...te-suppressor/

Here is an appropriate quote...
Quote:
Will your rifle be more accurate suppressed? Maybe. Or maybe not. It all depends on the combination of ammo, rifle, and suppressor.
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Old November 18, 2018, 02:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Will your rifle be more accurate suppressed? Maybe. Or maybe not. It all depends on the combination of ammo, rifle, and suppressor.
I didn't read the links, but that quote pretty much sums up my opinion.

Every rifle is different - with or without something hanging off the end of the barrel. --Whether it's a suppressor, muzzle brake, compensator, or clamp-on bipod.

Adding (or subtracting) something that changes barrel harmonics is going to be an unknown until it's tested. It's that simple.

My .270 Win went to crap with my "One Load to Rule Them All" after it was chopped and threaded. But, after testing some other ammo, I found that it was now performing better with lighter bullets than it had in the past. Add the suppressor, and my 'one load' does improve a bit (but not enough). Some bullets with lighter loads are better with the suppressor. Some are a bit worse.
But, of course, all of them have a POI shift.

To me, it's all about barrel harmonics ... and that's not a subject where we can predict anything.
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Old November 18, 2018, 07:56 PM   #14
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If you're going with a different upper, look at a piston driven or buy an Adams Arms piston kit for a DIY. Otherwise for sure go with an adjustable gas block.
I have good results with the 18" rifle gas combination. The last pair I assembled (w/o adjustable blocks)were just barely functional until broken in but after 50 rounds, are running fine un-muffled and don't suffer or require tweeking for suppressor use.
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Old November 19, 2018, 12:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Do silencers/suppressors have negative effects on a rifle?
YES!!! they make them more expensive!!

Other than that, (and the Fed required paperwork, cost, and time) no.

They can change the point of impact, so a zero with the device in place is needed. Otherwise, there's no real effect in general, though SOME individual rifles might group better or worse, its due to the change in barrel harmonics, not the fact that its a silencer/suppressor.

Attach a bayonet to the gun and you can see a similar kind of change. Has nothing to do with it being a knife.
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Old November 20, 2018, 06:55 AM   #16
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A muffler definitely causes more fouling build-up. A piston driven AR gets less fouling but isn't immune. Even bolt actions are affected.
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Old December 6, 2018, 10:56 AM   #17
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IME shooting 6.5CM and 308 supressed you will observe a slight decrease in consistiency. (Notice im not saying "loose accuracy"). I have the Sig 7.62 SRD Ti direct mount and i dont observe any measurable decrease in accuracy. I do notice what seems to be a more frequent stray shot that i didnt call. Seems i get more frequent strays in the cold months . I start seeing these fliers more identifiable at 600 yds. Maybe its just me, but just throwing this out there.
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