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Old December 22, 2016, 01:59 PM   #1
JACKlangrishe
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Received my Pietta 1860 Army!!! Take a look! Pics included.

I couldn't be more excited!!

Over the fuss of the holiday season I *almost* was able to put my Cabela's order out of my mind. Well, it got here much faster than expected and now I'm anxiously awaiting my hollow ground magna tip bits and pure beeswax so I can strip and clean/lube this beauty!

...but, before I even do that, I want to heed drobs', Beagle333's, and Hawg's advice to:

"...tear it all apart, and if nothing else check the fit of the bolt head to the locking notches on the cylinder. I find a couple swipes of the bolt head on a piece of black 600 grit automotive sand paper (laid on a flat surface) will fit the bolt head in to the locking notches. Making a significant difference to the handling of the gun." - drobs

" Before you let that bolt head peen up those cylinder notches, check out the timing and bolt width. Not all of them need any work, but if they do, it's much easier on you to do it before it beats up those slots." - Beagle333

"The bolt should drop one full bolt width before the notch." - Hawg

To be honest, I've never had to check for timing and/or bolt width or anything like that with the 1911, so I'm going to hunt down some visual aids to make sure I'm correctly following those instructions before I even work the action.

As promised, here's the pics. Tried to get as much detail with the less than ideal lighting I was working with. Obviously I'm a total cap and ball noob so it looks absolutely perfect to me, but I know better than to trust my novice eyes. Anything look out of place?












Last edited by JACKlangrishe; December 22, 2016 at 02:07 PM.
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Old December 22, 2016, 02:00 PM   #2
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^ I believe that was a towel fiber or hair on the barrel and not a scratch
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Old December 22, 2016, 03:08 PM   #3
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Very Nice, Congrats on a nice firearm
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Old December 22, 2016, 03:51 PM   #4
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Looks good from here.
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Old December 22, 2016, 04:10 PM   #5
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Don't you love that new gun smell.
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Old December 22, 2016, 05:10 PM   #6
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Looks good! Have you tried to remove the wedge?
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Old December 22, 2016, 05:31 PM   #7
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Wow! Beautiful gun. It's gonna give you a lifetime of enjoyment.
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Old December 22, 2016, 05:34 PM   #8
JACKlangrishe
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Thanks! Haven't removed the wedge yet, needed to run some errands since the post. Heading to Harbor Freight now for a plastic/rubber mallet for whel ill need it. Im thinking i should be checking the action timing and bolt width issues before striping it, correct? I still need to look up how to do that in detail.
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Old December 22, 2016, 06:58 PM   #9
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Looks good.

Try pushing the wedge out with your thumb. My brass framed short barrel 1851 wedge pushes right out.

My newer 1860 Pietta (dated 2015 on underside of the barrel) needed some help. I made a little wedge tool by crushing and folding over a piece fired 223 brass in my bench vice.

I tap that with mallet:



Cheaper than buying this tool -
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categ...1/1/TOOL-KEY-B
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Old December 22, 2016, 08:29 PM   #10
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Finally getting back from a long day!

Great tip on that diy tool! Unfortunately, I don't have any spent brass, but I picked up a pack of 50 wood clothespins from walmart for $0.99. I'll just use half of the pin and toss the metal clip.

Also picked up the $2 wooden handle rubber mallet from Harbor Freight, along with this diamond needle file kit for the tuning process - http://www.harborfreight.com/needle-...-pc-69876.html (except the brand is Pittsburgh)

Digging through some info now on what correct timing should look and feel like, so I can identify if somethings off when I work the action. Then I'll start breaking it down. I've already stumbled on Beagle333's post from early 2012 - http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=475195

Last edited by JACKlangrishe; December 22, 2016 at 08:57 PM.
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Old December 22, 2016, 09:17 PM   #11
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Completely off topic, if you lower the loading lever, is there date on the underside of your barrel and what is it?
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Old December 22, 2016, 09:36 PM   #12
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I see the manufactures "birthdate" code of CP. Most of mine start with an X or an A. Someone's gonnna have to look it up (CP).
Since you don't have a spent brass (hard to imagine) I'd use an old house key as my drift punch for the wedge. Put the edge of the key handle on its edge and smack it with the mallet to knock out the wedge. Prop up the barrel for clearance. Pietta wedges are notorious for being "difficult". Once you get it out, grease it a bit along the edges.
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Old December 22, 2016, 10:39 PM   #13
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Very nice looking gun.
If you have not already done so, you need to download and read the .pdf on tuning the Pietta.

Google turning pietta revolve
Easy to find

Here is a link to part 1
http://www.theopenrange.net/articles...a_Part_One.pdf

Welcome to a lot of fun shooting and sharing " the adventure "
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Old December 22, 2016, 10:43 PM   #14
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Beautiful '60 Army! Congrats!!
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Old December 22, 2016, 11:05 PM   #15
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I just use a plastic screwdriver handle and when it gets flush a corner of a piece of hardwood on wedges that need persuading.
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Old December 22, 2016, 11:07 PM   #16
JACKlangrishe
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Keys won't mar the wedge? My keys don't look soft. The clothespin idea I got from duelist1954 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx5vOndeFwM&t=9m50s


Regarding drobs question.. I dropped the loading lever and the date was 2016 (it was very hard to see the top of the 6 and almost looked like a 0)

The wedge was still in tight (untouched) when I dropped the lever and there was a slight amount of resistance.. I'm assuming that's normal for a new gun? Online videos show them almost fall with no resistance but those might be well worn in.


I've been reading and re-reading Larsen E. Pettifogger's amazing docs on tuning these revolvers and I'm getting a better understanding of the mechanics of timing (remember this is my first revolver, what a way to start right?)

I'd love to be able to get away without peening my notches at all... just like I got away without any idiot scratches on my 1911. Measure Twice, Cut Once.. Right?

If I break down the gun before ever cycling the action, and follow Pettifogger's docs, can I avoid any peening at all when I get to this part:











I'd love to be able to avoid this---


Last edited by JACKlangrishe; December 22, 2016 at 11:20 PM.
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Old December 22, 2016, 11:37 PM   #17
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Beautiful! You'll probably end up with some turn lines on it, no matter what you do. Don't fret those. They won't be as bad if you don't lower the hammer from half cock and turn the cylinder by hand. Always pull the hammer all the way back to full cock and then lower it. That way the bolt doesn't ride the cylinder face all the way around.
When you cycle the action slowly, watch the bolt and learn when it comes up to engage and when it doesn't. Then notice as you slowly cock it, if it comes up before full cock, engages the cylinder face and glides down the leade ramp into the slot or if it comes up and just barely hangs on the edge of the slot before dropping in. That's where any peening occurs. If it is timed so that just the edge of the bolt catches on just the edge of that slot, then it will push some metal off into the slot after a few times. Hopefully not. Most are timed better than that.

Very nice looking '60 though!!!


(and I also use the plastic screwdriver handle to tap the wedge back, just as Hawg described)
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Old December 23, 2016, 09:49 AM   #18
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@ Hellgate:

Quote:
I see the manufactures "birthdate" code of CP. Most of mine start with an X or an A. Someone's gonnna have to look it up (CP).
Date code [CP] is 2016

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Old December 23, 2016, 02:06 PM   #19
JACKlangrishe
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Quick question.. when Pettifogger writes about applying moderate back pressure:




does he mean while cocking the gun, like this?- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c-8IySBwQ8&t=0m44s

In his photo, the hammer is down, which I'm assuming would lock the cylinder no matter what. I'm assuming he means add moderate back pressure when slowly pulling the hammer back for each chamber and listen for the bolt to click as it drops.

If it's dropping correctly and squarely into each notch, will there only be one click?

It's nice how you can actually See the bolt on the remmy in that video.
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Old December 23, 2016, 02:13 PM   #20
JACKlangrishe
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Beagle333- you mentioned, "When you cycle the action slowly, watch the bolt and learn when it comes up to engage and when it doesn't. Then notice as you slowly cock it, if it comes up before full cock, engages the cylinder face and glides down the leade ramp into the slot or if it comes up and just barely hangs on the edge of the slot before dropping in. "

How do you watch the bolt with the cylinder on? Can the timing be guaranteed with the cylinder off, by watching the bolt timing in relation to the hammer position? (like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=057mS44KLCA&t=10m13s ) Or are there too many variables that require the cylinder to be on, and only when and if I see damage will I know if the timing is off?

Last edited by JACKlangrishe; December 23, 2016 at 03:19 PM.
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Old December 23, 2016, 03:56 PM   #21
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When the bolt pops up, there are only two acceptable choices. (all done with the cylinder installed on the gun) One being that the bolt pops up and the cylinder locks immediately and the bolt directly hits the slot and is perfect. This is rare and also will not be the case after the cam and bolt leg wears any at all. The other preference is that when the bolt pops up, the distance that the cylinder will still turn before lock up would equal the width of the bolt, which will mean the entire bolt surface engaged the cylinder and then slid into the slot. It's only bad if the bolt pops up and then the cylinder still has only a hair more to turn before lockup. That means the bolt is only contacting the cylinder right at the edge of the slot. I'll draw a picture and add it to this. I know it isn't easy to see, from my description.

You aren't going to do much damage by watching it slowly. It isn't going to peen the slots after only one or two or even ten hits. It's after a dozen or more times that you'd start to see it. And hopefully it's not even an issue.


You can't really "see" the bolt touching the cylinder, but you can see when it pops up and how far the cylinder will turn after that before lockup.


Okay.... here's a cutaway pic of the cylinder to show what I was so long-winded in describing.
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Old December 23, 2016, 06:40 PM   #22
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When watching for bolt drop on an open top Colt type revolver, you look at the left side of the hammer slot where it meets the top of the recoil shield (as if that was where your rear sight is located). For textbook timing, the bolt should drop when the first side of the locking notch reaches that mark. At lockup, the other side of the notch should at the mark. The center drawing is correct for bolt drop. (One bolt width before the notch)

Just so you know, the bolt arm that rides the cam (the left one) should fall off the front of the cam, not slide off the side. The "sliding" situation will get worse and promotes wear. The "flag" at the very top of the arm is where the 2 surfaces are that control the bolt movement. One is the vertical (or the "trailing" edge of a flag). This is the surface that rides the cam. This also determines how far into the frame the bolt head will descend. Ideally, it can stop at the floor of the water table. That surface also needs to be perfectly flat as you don't want it to "crawl" off the side of the cam.
The top surface creates the corner that will be what falls off the cam. Go slow when removing material here (and keep the surface parallel to the bottom of the bolt ) as this determines drop.

Now you know where this event is supposed to happen (and the surfaces that make that occur). Also, keep in mind, lockup and full cock should happen at the same time and sound like one "click". Drag a finger on the cylinder when checking timing. (Of course, this involves the hand and the fitting of it.)

The procedure goes in this order:
1- the range you have is hammer at rest to full cock. The hand must deliver the chamber to battery (carry up) by that point. If the hand is short, it needs to be stretched. If battery is reached before full cock, the hand is too long and must be shortened.

2- the bolt must engage the locking notch at full cock.. When you get this done, then set the timing (bolt drop).

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Last edited by 45 Dragoon; December 23, 2016 at 06:58 PM.
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Old December 23, 2016, 07:26 PM   #23
JACKlangrishe
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You've gone above and beyond! I can't thank you enough! And visual aids to boot!

I'm finally starting to get the concept that the force of the bolt popping up is only a problem when it hits that edge, and that if it hits earlier it can slide into the notch. I was under the impression that the only option was it landing absolutely perfectly in the notch. EVEN after reading posts like "The bolt should drop one full bolt width before the notch." - Hawg. I guess I just had too many new concepts swimming around in the noggin.

I'll post hi res shots of my bolt and I'll try some videos of the action, along with what I'm planning on doing to adjust it before I actually start filing anything.

Picked up the 600 grit automotive sandpaper to go with the diamond needle files, and grabbed this double sided sharpening stone at harbor freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-to...tone-7347.html

This is probably the best intro into tinker/smithing a person can get. To the uninitiated, this is really intimidating stuff, but you guys are great at breaking it down into steps. Again, my endless thanks!

I've got lots of patience and really want to turn this into a slicked up shooter!

Last edited by JACKlangrishe; December 23, 2016 at 07:32 PM.
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Old December 23, 2016, 08:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Keys won't mar the wedge? My keys don't look soft. The clothespin idea I got from duelist1954
I used clothespins for decades and they worked great for Colt wedges, though I now use a brass drift.
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Old December 23, 2016, 09:42 PM   #25
45 Dragoon
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Glad to help, didn't realize it wasn't your drawings.
Anyway, avoid the stone. Stones change shape with each pass. A true flat surface and differing grits of sandpaper and files beat a stone any day.

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