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Old June 15, 2020, 02:53 PM   #1
Sam58
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Help wanted with side by side Hunter.

Hi, new on this forum but looks great. I live in Holland and purchased an old side by side shotgun in kaliber 12/70. On the barrel is engraved 'Hunter', but not sure whether that is the brand or the type. Serial number is FSC37739. On the bottom of the right barrel is printed 650 kgs and on the left barrel 1310. Any idea what we are looking at and how old it is? Still works great and accurate.

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Old June 15, 2020, 04:28 PM   #2
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i,m no help, but if it checked out as safe and it looks like its in good condition. i would put a oil finish on the stock and go hunting.
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Old June 15, 2020, 04:50 PM   #3
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No other markings? No country of origin? I am having a hard time reading the marks in the third pic; could this be German, Austrian or ?????
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Old June 16, 2020, 09:59 AM   #4
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That's a large variance in pressure. Bet one is Kgs and one is BAR.
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Old June 16, 2020, 05:15 PM   #5
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I would speculate that this is of Spanish origin. It appears to have "chopper lump" barrels and perhaps a "Greener" style cross bolt and underlugs. The chopper lump barrels are typical of this style. What's not helpful to you that there were quite a few different manufacturers of double barrels of various quality in the Eibar region of Spain. Most of these are gone now as they were dependent on traditional manufacture methods and aging skilled artisans. These companies also sold guns under various trade names too. I have a similar Ugartechea (mfg.) that was labeled "Excel." That company ceased operation in 2016, if I recall. I also had a Spanish double barrel years ago which was serviceable, but not as nice as the Ugartechea. I think most of these Spanish guns are good shooters, and some are very high quality, i.e. AYA. Unfortunately I know nothing of European or Spanish proof marks, and that is where the definitive solution to the mystery lies.
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Old June 16, 2020, 06:53 PM   #6
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If you Google Spanish proof marks you should get some answers
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Old June 17, 2020, 01:16 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Henneman View Post
I would speculate that this is of Spanish origin. It appears to have "chopper lump" barrels and perhaps a "Greener" style cross bolt and underlugs. The chopper lump barrels are typical of this style. What's not helpful to you that there were quite a few different manufacturers of double barrels of various quality in the Eibar region of Spain. Most of these are gone now as they were dependent on traditional manufacture methods and aging skilled artisans. These companies also sold guns under various trade names too. I have a similar Ugartechea (mfg.) that was labeled "Excel." That company ceased operation in 2016, if I recall. I also had a Spanish double barrel years ago which was serviceable, but not as nice as the Ugartechea. I think most of these Spanish guns are good shooters, and some are very high quality, i.e. AYA. Unfortunately I know nothing of European or Spanish proof marks, and that is where the definitive solution to the mystery lies.
Thanks Henneman. Interesting stuf!

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Old June 17, 2020, 07:34 AM   #8
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can we see the buttplate?
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Old June 17, 2020, 07:38 AM   #9
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buttplate and pistol grip art sometimes can i.d. a gun.
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Old June 19, 2020, 12:28 AM   #10
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You can make out the Eibar Proofing House mark (shield wit X through it) on the bottom row, fourth proof from the right. That may help narrow it down.
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Old June 19, 2020, 12:42 AM   #11
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From Chuck Hawks

"The Charles Daly Field II Hunter was an inexpensive Spanish made boxlock marketed by K.B.I. (now defunct). It featured a checkered walnut pistol grip stock and beavertail forearm, engraved silver receiver, monobloc barrels with a solid rib, gold selective single trigger, extractors and automatic safety. It was available in 10, 12, 20, 28, and .410 gauge. The somewhat fancier Superior Grade weighed about 7 pounds and was similar in specification, but came with chrome lined barrels. It was available in 12 and 20 gauge only. At the top of the line was the deluxe Empire Hunter with game scene engraving and selective ejectors."

Closest I could find to a Spanish double with the "Hunter" moniker.
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Old June 19, 2020, 01:26 AM   #12
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Just read that the field grade Hunter shotguns were made for Charles Daly by the Zabala hermanos in Eibar, Spain. Eibar up in Basque country is to Spain what Gardone Val Trompia is to Italy, amazing how many makers they have

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Old June 19, 2020, 01:04 PM   #13
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The Spanish sxs I had thirty years ago was also a "Zabala." I gave it to a friend who used it for ruffed grouse until it was stolen in a burglary. That gun was not adorned as nicely as the pics above. As the original poster is in Holland, he should buy a "Holland & Holland." They make some decent guns, at a slightly higher price point. They have a store nearby in London.
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Old June 19, 2020, 04:14 PM   #14
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Old June 19, 2020, 05:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Just read that the field grade Hunter shotguns were made for Charles Daly by the Zabala hermanos in Eibar, Spain. Eibar up in Basque country is to Spain what Gardone Val Trompia is to Italy, amazing how many makers they have

Rom
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No Longer. HAD would be appropriate. Kemen is left as is AyA, maybe 1 or 2 small shops as well.
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Old June 19, 2020, 06:10 PM   #16
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How sad! Thanks for that info.
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Old June 20, 2020, 02:44 AM   #17
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Thanks for all this information guys, impressive and helpful. I got the gun from an old friend who stopped hunting. He had the gun for over 30 yrs and no idea about the origins. I will keep it and shot a few rounds now and then. It's pretty accurate. For the clay range I have a Browning b525, simple and fantastic gun.

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Old June 20, 2020, 05:28 AM   #18
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If the OP from the great state of the Netherlands doesn't mind, I'd like to ask the moderator move this thread to The Harley Nolden Memorial Institute for Firearms Research section, I'd like to enlist some additional knowledge. Thanks,
Rom
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Old June 21, 2020, 01:01 AM   #19
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If the OP from the great state of the Netherlands doesn't mind, I'd like to ask the moderator move this thread to The Harley Nolden Memorial Institute for Firearms Research section, I'd like to enlist some additional knowledge. Thanks,
Rom

Sounds great to me. Please go ahead.


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Old July 31, 2020, 09:32 AM   #20
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The 12-70 mostly likely stands for 12 gauge, 70mm chambers, so 2 3/4" shells are OK.

I believe the 650 kgs is the allowable working pressure rating of 650 kg/cm2, which equates to about 9,250 psi, so no heavy loads is best.

1310 is most likely the weight of the barrels, 1,310 grams. I bet it's a pretty light shotgun - great for field carry.
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