British flintlock pistol (?)

VintageFan · January 16, 2020, 01:53 PM

Hey all,

Came across with this flintlock pistol. Not a lot to work with. Top of barrel has London and T-Y 8597, also british proof marks. I initially thought that it is some modern stamp, but then I found Irish Arms Act of 1843 and that TY would indicaye Tyrone county. Also the highest number found from Tyrone on that survey is 12284, so that would make that ~8500 number plausible. I also found a photo of a blunderbuss that has same style/font T-Y marking. Lock has engravings but no visible makers mark. Missing some parts, top jaw, srews, trigger bar and maybe something else too. Probably those parts can be replaced.

Ima has this on their website which has similar pistol with same / same style of decoration made by John King of London. Steel barrel as this one has bronze or brass (?) barrel.

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/ori...nt=26170636165

Any ideas of maker or age?

VintageFan · January 16, 2020, 01:54 PM

Lock

T. O'Heir · January 16, 2020, 02:28 PM

You have the rest of the lock? That one is missing the top jaw. You can't put a flint on it. Bubba has damaged all the internal lock screws too.
I don't think the lock is assembled correctly either. There are some decent pictures here.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/flintlock2.htm
As to the maker, that should be on the barrel, but it may be worn off. Or it may say "Made in India". Hard to tell. Any marks on the inside of the lock?
IMA also had a brass barreled pistol of 1800 vintage that looks very similar. Rock Island Auction has several with the 'London' marking. There's actually hordes of 'em. The barrel may have been made in London or sold by a London gun shop.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...intlock-pistol
https://www.ima-usa.com/products/bri...nt=26157073989

VintageFan · January 16, 2020, 03:44 PM

No it's missing those parts. Internals are lacking at least a sear. That's why the main spring is drooping, as there is no sear to keep pressure on tumbler which would keep pressure on main spring.. well that is what i'm guessing of it. And yes top jaw is missing and the screw to tighten them.

Haven't found anything else, only a rough looking carving what looks like V V on the butt cap. Seems nicely made and the remaining screws look old.

That Irish Registration Act of 1843 stamping would be odd thing to add if it was a fake, mainly because there was not lot of info on it out there. That would indicate that at least in some point this was carried or kept by someone after 1843 in northern part of Ireland (i'm not sure what the state of ireland was back then). Maybe not as an edc gun, as there was more modern and smaller ones available in mid 17th century.

**44 AMP** · January 17, 2020, 11:46 PM

There is no name of any kind anywhere on the lock??

It was very common in those days that guns were made by individual gunsmiths, using a combination of parts they bought (most often barrels and locks) and parts they made themselves.

Any combination from completely hand made on up is possible. Your barrel, with a proof marking matching something historically listed is almost certainly an original barrel so marked.

BUT, when and where it became part of the pistol you now have is anyone's guess. Pistols of that approximate look and style were produced over nearly a couple hundred year period.

**4V50 Gary** · January 18, 2020, 11:39 AM

I think the bridle is in the wrong place too. As mentioned, sear is missing (but that's easy to make).

Road_Clam · January 19, 2020, 09:07 AM

Maybe of some help ? :

https://www.historical-firearms.co.uk/index.html

Tidewater_Kid · January 19, 2020, 03:53 PM

There's a guy on Facebook named Chris Hirsch. His email is [email protected]
I bet he can tell you what you have and what you need to repair it. He's very knowledgeable on antique locks.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/400656653781517/

VintageFan · February 12, 2020, 03:32 AM

Hey,

Thank you.

January 16, 2020, 01:53 PM	#1
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	British flintlock pistol (?) Hey all, Came across with this flintlock pistol. Not a lot to work with. Top of barrel has London and T-Y 8597, also british proof marks. I initially thought that it is some modern stamp, but then I found Irish Arms Act of 1843 and that TY would indicaye Tyrone county. Also the highest number found from Tyrone on that survey is 12284, so that would make that ~8500 number plausible. I also found a photo of a blunderbuss that has same style/font T-Y marking. Lock has engravings but no visible makers mark. Missing some parts, top jaw, srews, trigger bar and maybe something else too. Probably those parts can be replaced. Ima has this on their website which has similar pistol with same / same style of decoration made by John King of London. Steel barrel as this one has bronze or brass (?) barrel. https://www.ima-usa.com/products/ori...nt=26170636165 Any ideas of maker or age?

January 16, 2020, 02:28 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	You have the rest of the lock? That one is missing the top jaw. You can't put a flint on it. Bubba has damaged all the internal lock screws too. I don't think the lock is assembled correctly either. There are some decent pictures here. https://science.howstuffworks.com/flintlock2.htm As to the maker, that should be on the barrel, but it may be worn off. Or it may say "Made in India". Hard to tell. Any marks on the inside of the lock? IMA also had a brass barreled pistol of 1800 vintage that looks very similar. Rock Island Auction has several with the 'London' marking. There's actually hordes of 'em. The barrel may have been made in London or sold by a London gun shop. https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...intlock-pistol https://www.ima-usa.com/products/bri...nt=26157073989 __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 17, 2020, 11:46 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	There is no name of any kind anywhere on the lock?? It was very common in those days that guns were made by individual gunsmiths, using a combination of parts they bought (most often barrels and locks) and parts they made themselves. Any combination from completely hand made on up is possible. Your barrel, with a proof marking matching something historically listed is almost certainly an original barrel so marked. BUT, when and where it became part of the pistol you now have is anyone's guess. Pistols of that approximate look and style were produced over nearly a couple hundred year period. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

January 18, 2020, 11:39 AM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	I think the bridle is in the wrong place too. As mentioned, sear is missing (but that's easy to make). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 19, 2020, 09:07 AM	#7
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	Maybe of some help ? : https://www.historical-firearms.co.uk/index.html __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

January 16, 2020, 01:54 PM	#2
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	Lock

January 16, 2020, 03:44 PM	#4
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	No it's missing those parts. Internals are lacking at least a sear. That's why the main spring is drooping, as there is no sear to keep pressure on tumbler which would keep pressure on main spring.. well that is what i'm guessing of it. And yes top jaw is missing and the screw to tighten them. Haven't found anything else, only a rough looking carving what looks like V V on the butt cap. Seems nicely made and the remaining screws look old. That Irish Registration Act of 1843 stamping would be odd thing to add if it was a fake, mainly because there was not lot of info on it out there. That would indicate that at least in some point this was carried or kept by someone after 1843 in northern part of Ireland (i'm not sure what the state of ireland was back then). Maybe not as an edc gun, as there was more modern and smaller ones available in mid 17th century.

January 19, 2020, 03:53 PM	#8
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	There's a guy on Facebook named Chris Hirsch. His email is [email protected] I bet he can tell you what you have and what you need to repair it. He's very knowledgeable on antique locks. https://www.facebook.com/groups/400656653781517/

February 12, 2020, 03:32 AM	#9
VintageFan Member Join Date: October 19, 2019 Posts: 15	Hey, Thank you.

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