Charter Arms trigger sticks

Carmady · February 6, 2016, 09:33 AM

It's an older one from about the 1980s.

Sometimes the hammer will go back about 1/4"-5/16" and the trigger stops, won't go back any further. Shaking it or repetitive pulling on the trigger helps to get it going again.

While dry firing it often seems to stop on the same cylinder (but not always the same cylinder), and very rarely gets through three cylinders without getting stuck.

Any ideas as to what would cause this?

g.willikers · February 6, 2016, 09:39 AM

The ones from that time period have the most quality control complaints.
From the description it sounds like a problem best looked at by a qualified gunsmith or maybe sent to Charter.
Doubt if it can be assayed or cured from here.
But we can try.
Now, that's assuming the way you're using the trigger isn't causing it.
Some revolvers just plain don't like their triggers being pulled and released real slow.
Does it do this when pulling the trigger and releasing it rapidly double action?
How about when cocking the hammer and releasing it single action?

Carmady · February 6, 2016, 09:41 AM

This is a Stratford gun. I thought they were some of the "good ones."

g.willikers · February 6, 2016, 09:47 AM

Not real sure of the dates and such for the "good ones", other than the original company made them in Bridgeport, Conn, without the problems that cropped up later.
Might have been until '84 or so.
There's plenty of info on the web about it.
But try the stuff above and report back.

Carmady · February 6, 2016, 10:06 AM

1) Now, that's assuming the way you're using the trigger isn't causing it.
2) Some revolvers just plain don't like their triggers being pulled and released real slow.
3) Does it do this when pulling the trigger and releasing it rapidly double action?
4) How about when cocking the hammer and releasing it single action?

Thanks. I added the numbers to match my answers.

1) At first, it seemed to ONLY happen when the trigger was pulled, meaning if 6 o'clock is pulling straight back, pulling at 4-5 o'clock would cause it to stick. I think it's progressed a little and isn't as predictable.

2) I haven't been dry firing slow, not at all.

3) Yes.

4) Works 100%, see following post.

The most consistent symptom is the distance of hammer travel prior to stopping, that's right at 5/16", maybe a hair more.

Carmady · February 6, 2016, 10:20 AM

SA vs DA

SA appears to work 100%.

When it sticks in DA I can keep my finger on the trigger (trigger doesn't come back any further) and manually pull the hammer back about an additional 1/8", but not far enough to cock it.

If I let the hammer down and release the trigger, SA works 100% after being stuck in DA.

MrBorland · February 6, 2016, 11:23 AM

Does it only happen during dry fire? What about dry fire with empty cases in the chambers?

I'm not familiar with the working of CA revolvers, but I assume they utilize a star ratchet/hand system to push the cylinder. Take a close look at the condition of the ratchets - if one or more are galled, it could certainly affect the DA pull.

Also, see how much the ratchet can rotate inside the cylinder while holding the cylinder. A (very) little wouldn't be bad, but if there's a lot of slop, it can effectively change the geometry of the ratchet/hand interaction while the trigger's being pulled. This slop can often be taken up by inserting rounds or empty cases, which is why I asked about dry fire with an empty cylinder.

Carmady · February 6, 2016, 11:41 AM

"Does it only happen during dry fire? What about dry fire with empty cases in the chambers?"

I haven't fired it yet, and all dry firing has been with snap-caps.

The ratchet looks very good, the lock-up is very good.

I've removed the grips and cylinder, and the rest of it is now soaking in Ed's Red.

ScaryWoody · February 6, 2016, 11:50 AM

Fortunately, they are easy to disassemble. Here's a video in case you need a reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T-ONYl-xIg I would give it a good polish on the internals and see if that improves. Also check for a spring bind.

lee n. field · February 6, 2016, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Charter Arms trigger sticks

As described, I would send it in to Charter. It will cost, as this if from before the current incarnation of the company. I read very good things about their service of the older guns.

lee n. field · February 6, 2016, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Fortunately, they are easy to disassemble.

Unfortunatly, it's a PITA to get the trigger re-installed.

Charter has a video on the process, that makes it look easy. Wish I'd had that, when I disassembled mine.

g.willikers · February 6, 2016, 02:10 PM

Nice links and videos:
http://www.charterarms.com/pages/videos-2
It appears that once the main spring and grip section are removed, it will be easy to see inside the frame for the problem, while running the trigger and watching the cylinder rotate.

Carmady · February 6, 2016, 03:02 PM

Thanks for the info and videos. I didn't see the CA factory videos when I searched last night.

I put the cylinder back in and it's a lot better. Hopefully that will do the trick.

T. O'Heir · February 6, 2016, 03:30 PM

Good news is that the model of Charter Arms revolver doesn't matter. Innards are the same. Apparently, neither does when it was made. The current CA will fix old models for a $49.95 charge that covers all shipping, handling, and labor. Plus the cost of any parts.
http://www.charterarms.com/pages/contact-us
"...4-5 o'clock would cause it to stick..." Sounds like worn trigger/sear parts. The manual on Steve's Pages is a poor copy. Hard to read.

CaptainO · February 6, 2016, 04:51 PM

Send it back to Charter Arms. For the $50.00 + parts and shipping it wil be well worth the expense. (I have a Stratford Bulldog 3" barreled model chambered for the .44 S&W Special). I would do this so that the gun is brought back to it's original specifications.

You should be "good to go".

Carmady · February 7, 2016, 12:32 PM

I let it drip dry over night since it had been submerged in ATF, and this morning it got a good cleaning. While cleaning I noticed some light between the sideplates and the backstrap. There's a screw at the top of the backstrap which is hidden when the grips are installed, and it was loose. I removed the screw, cleaned and dried the adjoining areas as well as I could, applied some blue 242 to the male and female threads, and reinstalled the screw. After it set about an hour the grips and snap-caps were reinstalled, and it cycled 100 times DA with no trace of sticking. Success. Thanks again for all the help, links, and advice.

CaptainO · February 7, 2016, 02:29 PM

Glad to hear the it was simply a matter of cleaning. So often a bit of "elbow grease" and/or "chemical coaxing" is all that's needed to rectify a problem.

I am happy that you resolved the situation with a minimum expenditure of time, money and effort.

Take it out and shoot the daylights out of it!

Carmady · November 19, 2017, 07:52 PM

Well, I'm having the same problem with a different gun. Iirc, the gun discussed above was a 80s? Police Undercover, 6-shot .38 on the BD frame. It acted up after my last post (#16), so I sent it back to Charter Arms and they fixed it, and I sold it afterwards. I believe they replaced the cylinder stop.

I was just searching here and found this thread.

I tried to study it some, and it looks like the cylinder is popping back up (getting released prematurely) into the cylinder stop slot/notch, and preventing the hand from advancing the cylinder.

I think there's a connection between the cylinder stop and the trigger, like pulling the trigger lowers the cylinder stop while raising the hand which turns the cylinder. But sometimes the cylinder stop pops back up and jams it DA. SA works 100%, just like before.

I'm not sure if the trigger and cylinder stop come in contact, but that's the only thing that makes sense to me at the moment.

I can't tell much by the exploded view. Any ideas?

Edit: found something good, @0:58 it shows the trigger/cylinder stop relationship, and it looks like pulling the trigger lowers the cylinder stop. That's my guess where the trouble is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZk_eAMGrWk&t=100s

TruthTellers · November 19, 2017, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carmady

This is a Stratford gun. I thought they were some of the "good ones."

Yeah, they should be. It's the Ansonia marked ones that I've been told to stay away from like the plague.

Buckeye! · November 19, 2017, 10:14 PM

CHARCO marked ones seemed to have problems .. I had a CHARCO 44 spl which ran great .. The Charter 2000 seems to be where they got it straightened out ...
Charters CS is grade A

TruthTellers · November 19, 2017, 11:41 PM

Well, I'm about to get my feet wet with the Charter Arms Corporation revolvers from Stratford, CT. Will be getting a .357 Magnum Bulldog Tracker sometime next week, so wish me luck!

I really liked the bluing on it and I like that the 4 inch Charter is lighter than the 4 inch SP101 and probably has a better trigger too. Yeah, y'all will probably say that the Ruger is a "tank" and "can take full power .357 loads all day long." While all those things are true, I'm not going to be shooting full power .357 loads all day long from a K frame size revolver. If I ever am, then I either have way too much money and need a new hobby or I'm in serious trouble and will wish I brought my Glock instead.

JERRYS. · November 20, 2017, 06:32 PM

don't settle for crap excuses. any quality revolver's trigger movement will be relatively smooth in D/A or S/A whether stroked slowly or quickly. If not, sent it back there is something wrong.

just read the follow up. yeah, cleaning a gun once in a while tends to help it work properly. I thought that was the first thing you might have did before posting the problem.

Carmady · November 20, 2017, 09:57 PM

Until now it would only lock up in DA, not always, but only in DA when it did. It would never lock up in SA, always worked just fine.

But then I noticed a little slack/play in the trigger and got the idea to try it in SA while taking up the slack in the trigger. This is AFTER it locked up in DA first, then once it's acting up trying the modified SA. That's thumbing the hammer back like normal SA while pulling on the trigger just enough to feel like there's no slack. And it locked up in SA, and stayed locked up until cleared.

It's like the cylinder stop doesn't disengage the notch enough to allow the cylinder to turn, and then it pops back into the notch.

I'll send it in for repair.

Carmady · November 28, 2017, 07:53 AM

Now I'm guessing that the culprit is play/wear in the trigger pin and or trigger spring bushing. It looks like that might be why it's fine in SA, but jams in DA and modified SA (SA with light pressure on the trigger).

SA operation starts with pulling the hammer back, which looks like it would push the trigger forward, and keep the trigger and cylinder stop overlapped.

DA operation starts with pulling the trigger back, which might decrease the trigger/cylinder stop overlap, and cause it to jam. That also explains why it fails in modified SA, since the trigger is moved rearward thereby compromising the trigger/cylinder stop overlap.

Just guessing. I should have it back in a couple of weeks, and see what they replaced.

Carmady · December 6, 2017, 04:42 PM

Once again Charter Arms' CS smokes the big boys'.

They received it on a Monday and I got it back two Wednesdays later.

They replaced the trigger.

They also supplied me with tracking info.

February 6, 2016, 09:39 AM	#2
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	The ones from that time period have the most quality control complaints. From the description it sounds like a problem best looked at by a qualified gunsmith or maybe sent to Charter. Doubt if it can be assayed or cured from here. But we can try. Now, that's assuming the way you're using the trigger isn't causing it. Some revolvers just plain don't like their triggers being pulled and released real slow. Does it do this when pulling the trigger and releasing it rapidly double action? How about when cocking the hammer and releasing it single action? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 6, 2016, 09:47 AM	#4
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Not real sure of the dates and such for the "good ones", other than the original company made them in Bridgeport, Conn, without the problems that cropped up later. Might have been until '84 or so. There's plenty of info on the web about it. But try the stuff above and report back. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 6, 2016, 10:06 AM	#5
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	1) Now, that's assuming the way you're using the trigger isn't causing it. 2) Some revolvers just plain don't like their triggers being pulled and released real slow. 3) Does it do this when pulling the trigger and releasing it rapidly double action? 4) How about when cocking the hammer and releasing it single action? Thanks. I added the numbers to match my answers. 1) At first, it seemed to ONLY happen when the trigger was pulled, meaning if 6 o'clock is pulling straight back, pulling at 4-5 o'clock would cause it to stick. I think it's progressed a little and isn't as predictable. 2) I haven't been dry firing slow, not at all. 3) Yes. 4) Works 100%, see following post. The most consistent symptom is the distance of hammer travel prior to stopping, that's right at 5/16", maybe a hair more. Last edited by Carmady; February 6, 2016 at 10:36 AM.

February 6, 2016, 02:10 PM	#12
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Nice links and videos: http://www.charterarms.com/pages/videos-2 It appears that once the main spring and grip section are removed, it will be easy to see inside the frame for the problem, while running the trigger and watching the cylinder rotate. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 6, 2016, 03:30 PM	#14
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Good news is that the model of Charter Arms revolver doesn't matter. Innards are the same. Apparently, neither does when it was made. The current CA will fix old models for a $49.95 charge that covers all shipping, handling, and labor. Plus the cost of any parts. http://www.charterarms.com/pages/contact-us "...4-5 o'clock would cause it to stick..." Sounds like worn trigger/sear parts. The manual on Steve's Pages is a poor copy. Hard to read. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 6, 2016, 09:33 AM	#1
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Charter Arms trigger sticks It's an older one from about the 1980s. Sometimes the hammer will go back about 1/4"-5/16" and the trigger stops, won't go back any further. Shaking it or repetitive pulling on the trigger helps to get it going again. While dry firing it often seems to stop on the same cylinder (but not always the same cylinder), and very rarely gets through three cylinders without getting stuck. Any ideas as to what would cause this? Last edited by Carmady; February 6, 2016 at 09:41 AM.

February 6, 2016, 09:41 AM	#3
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	This is a Stratford gun. I thought they were some of the "good ones."

February 6, 2016, 10:20 AM	#6
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	SA vs DA SA appears to work 100%. When it sticks in DA I can keep my finger on the trigger (trigger doesn't come back any further) and manually pull the hammer back about an additional 1/8", but not far enough to cock it. If I let the hammer down and release the trigger, SA works 100% after being stuck in DA.

February 6, 2016, 11:23 AM	#7
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	Does it only happen during dry fire? What about dry fire with empty cases in the chambers? I'm not familiar with the working of CA revolvers, but I assume they utilize a star ratchet/hand system to push the cylinder. Take a close look at the condition of the ratchets - if one or more are galled, it could certainly affect the DA pull. Also, see how much the ratchet can rotate inside the cylinder while holding the cylinder. A (very) little wouldn't be bad, but if there's a lot of slop, it can effectively change the geometry of the ratchet/hand interaction while the trigger's being pulled. This slop can often be taken up by inserting rounds or empty cases, which is why I asked about dry fire with an empty cylinder.

February 6, 2016, 11:41 AM	#8
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	"Does it only happen during dry fire? What about dry fire with empty cases in the chambers?" I haven't fired it yet, and all dry firing has been with snap-caps. The ratchet looks very good, the lock-up is very good. I've removed the grips and cylinder, and the rest of it is now soaking in Ed's Red.

February 6, 2016, 11:50 AM	#9
ScaryWoody Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 368	Fortunately, they are easy to disassemble. Here's a video in case you need a reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T-ONYl-xIg I would give it a good polish on the internals and see if that improves. Also check for a spring bind.

February 6, 2016, 03:02 PM	#13
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Thanks for the info and videos. I didn't see the CA factory videos when I searched last night. I put the cylinder back in and it's a lot better. Hopefully that will do the trick.

February 6, 2016, 04:51 PM	#15
CaptainO Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 489	Send it back to Charter Arms. For the $50.00 + parts and shipping it wil be well worth the expense. (I have a Stratford Bulldog 3" barreled model chambered for the .44 S&W Special). I would do this so that the gun is brought back to it's original specifications. You should be "good to go".

February 7, 2016, 12:32 PM	#16
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	I let it drip dry over night since it had been submerged in ATF, and this morning it got a good cleaning. While cleaning I noticed some light between the sideplates and the backstrap. There's a screw at the top of the backstrap which is hidden when the grips are installed, and it was loose. I removed the screw, cleaned and dried the adjoining areas as well as I could, applied some blue 242 to the male and female threads, and reinstalled the screw. After it set about an hour the grips and snap-caps were reinstalled, and it cycled 100 times DA with no trace of sticking. Success. Thanks again for all the help, links, and advice.

February 7, 2016, 02:29 PM	#17
CaptainO Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 489	Glad to hear the it was simply a matter of cleaning. So often a bit of "elbow grease" and/or "chemical coaxing" is all that's needed to rectify a problem. I am happy that you resolved the situation with a minimum expenditure of time, money and effort. Take it out and shoot the daylights out of it!

November 19, 2017, 07:52 PM	#18
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Well, I'm having the same problem with a different gun. Iirc, the gun discussed above was a 80s? Police Undercover, 6-shot .38 on the BD frame. It acted up after my last post (#16), so I sent it back to Charter Arms and they fixed it, and I sold it afterwards. I believe they replaced the cylinder stop. I was just searching here and found this thread. I tried to study it some, and it looks like the cylinder is popping back up (getting released prematurely) into the cylinder stop slot/notch, and preventing the hand from advancing the cylinder. I think there's a connection between the cylinder stop and the trigger, like pulling the trigger lowers the cylinder stop while raising the hand which turns the cylinder. But sometimes the cylinder stop pops back up and jams it DA. SA works 100%, just like before. I'm not sure if the trigger and cylinder stop come in contact, but that's the only thing that makes sense to me at the moment. I can't tell much by the exploded view. Any ideas? Edit: found something good, @0:58 it shows the trigger/cylinder stop relationship, and it looks like pulling the trigger lowers the cylinder stop. That's my guess where the trouble is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZk_eAMGrWk&t=100s Last edited by Carmady; November 19, 2017 at 08:09 PM.

November 19, 2017, 10:14 PM	#20
Buckeye! Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2008 Posts: 849	CHARCO marked ones seemed to have problems .. I had a CHARCO 44 spl which ran great .. The Charter 2000 seems to be where they got it straightened out ... Charters CS is grade A

November 19, 2017, 11:41 PM	#21
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	Well, I'm about to get my feet wet with the Charter Arms Corporation revolvers from Stratford, CT. Will be getting a .357 Magnum Bulldog Tracker sometime next week, so wish me luck! I really liked the bluing on it and I like that the 4 inch Charter is lighter than the 4 inch SP101 and probably has a better trigger too. Yeah, y'all will probably say that the Ruger is a "tank" and "can take full power .357 loads all day long." While all those things are true, I'm not going to be shooting full power .357 loads all day long from a K frame size revolver. If I ever am, then I either have way too much money and need a new hobby or I'm in serious trouble and will wish I brought my Glock instead. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

November 20, 2017, 06:32 PM	#22
JERRYS. Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,968	don't settle for crap excuses. any quality revolver's trigger movement will be relatively smooth in D/A or S/A whether stroked slowly or quickly. If not, sent it back there is something wrong. just read the follow up. yeah, cleaning a gun once in a while tends to help it work properly. I thought that was the first thing you might have did before posting the problem.

November 20, 2017, 09:57 PM	#23
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Until now it would only lock up in DA, not always, but only in DA when it did. It would never lock up in SA, always worked just fine. But then I noticed a little slack/play in the trigger and got the idea to try it in SA while taking up the slack in the trigger. This is AFTER it locked up in DA first, then once it's acting up trying the modified SA. That's thumbing the hammer back like normal SA while pulling on the trigger just enough to feel like there's no slack. And it locked up in SA, and stayed locked up until cleared. It's like the cylinder stop doesn't disengage the notch enough to allow the cylinder to turn, and then it pops back into the notch. I'll send it in for repair.

November 28, 2017, 07:53 AM	#24
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Now I'm guessing that the culprit is play/wear in the trigger pin and or trigger spring bushing. It looks like that might be why it's fine in SA, but jams in DA and modified SA (SA with light pressure on the trigger). SA operation starts with pulling the hammer back, which looks like it would push the trigger forward, and keep the trigger and cylinder stop overlapped. DA operation starts with pulling the trigger back, which might decrease the trigger/cylinder stop overlap, and cause it to jam. That also explains why it fails in modified SA, since the trigger is moved rearward thereby compromising the trigger/cylinder stop overlap. Just guessing. I should have it back in a couple of weeks, and see what they replaced.

December 6, 2017, 04:42 PM	#25
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Once again Charter Arms' CS smokes the big boys'. They received it on a Monday and I got it back two Wednesdays later. They replaced the trigger. They also supplied me with tracking info.

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