|
|
|||||||
| Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
| Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
May 20, 2015, 07:02 AM
|
#1 |
|
Member
Join Date: June 25, 2014
Posts: 42
|
Help Me Get Started Reloading
I'm sure i can find many post like this already but I'm sure someone is willing to share their knowledge with me personally.
I just got a new Geissele trigger and started shooting steel and... damn I love it. I used to restrain myself from shooting all the ammo I brought with me but now it's a struggle. So cursory search and watching a few videos, I think the Lee Precision Classic Turret Press is the one I am interested in the most. Seems very simple. It is in my Amazon cart until someone directs me to a better one. I want to reload 9mm, 357 sig, 223/556, & 308 My questions are: 1) Can the Lee Press reload handgun and rifle rounds? or what press can 2) Pricing: I added up the near cheapest supplies from a search on ammoseek.com. for 1000 rounds worth of 9mm brass, bullets, primer, and a pound of powder would amount to 120-145 dollars and for 223 140-180 dollars. and that does not include "hazardous shipping fee" which maybe another $50? So the question is can all those be bought for similar prices at large chain stores (Bass Pro or Academy)? Or is online the way to go? 3) Powder: will different powder be needed for the fore mentioned rounds I am interested in reloading? and what are the best powders for each? 4) Time:how much time (including snack breaks and time to browse through movies on netflix) would it take to reload 1000 rounds 5) Danger: Is there any increase risk of harm done to the gun or myself with hand loads? is it common to inspect each round or are the presses pretty precise? 6) How many times can I reload a case? 7) Is it really as cost effective as I think it is? |
|
|
May 20, 2015, 07:22 AM
|
#2 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: August 22, 2013
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 255
|
You can search a lot of this here
1) Can the Lee Press reload handgun and rifle rounds? or what press can Don't know, I'm a Dillon guy. 2) Pricing: I added up the near cheapest supplies from a search on ammoseek.com. for 1000 rounds worth of 9mm brass, bullets, primer, and a pound of powder would amount to 120-145 dollars and for 223 140-180 dollars. and that does not include "hazardous shipping fee" which maybe another $50? I pick-up brass or buy loaded. Buying brass is not cost effective except for odd stuff like .41. So the question is can all those be bought for similar prices at large chain stores (Bass Pro or Academy)? Or is online the way to go? I buy bullets on line and the rest local, the price spread is not worth the bother. 3) Powder: will different powder be needed for the fore mentioned rounds I am interested in reloading? and what are the best powders for each? I just started a guy with Unique, I use ww231 a lot but Unique is harder to double load IMHO. Search and you will find 1000s of opinions, buy a book. 4) Time:how much time (including snack breaks and time to browse through movies on netflix) would it take to reload 1000 rounds How much time do you have? All geared up & ready, 2-3 hours on a slow progressive. Getting ready is putter time, an hour of sorting, filling primer tubes, loading and emptying the tumbler. 5) Danger: Is there any increase risk of harm done to the gun or myself with hand loads? is it common to inspect each round or are the presses pretty precise? Yes. Depends but yes inspect and yes precise, operator less so. 6) How many times can I reload a case? Until it cracks or you lose it. YMMV. 7) Is it really as cost effective as I think it is? No. I buy 5,000 bullets at a pop instead of 500 loaded rounds. You will make Christmas ammo instead of Christmas cookies. The spending will likely increase. I want SS pins AND a big old ultrasonic cleaner. |
|
|
|
May 20, 2015, 08:21 PM
|
#3 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: August 21, 2007
Location: Illinois - down state
Posts: 2,403
|
Kiss it . . .
Jdougg92
My best advice is to start simple and grow as you learn. First, get a good reloading book and read the how to. There are lots of them. Then get a simple single stage press, pick one caliber to start on, get the dies, the components, a powder scale etc. and have at it. It's really not a complicated process, but there are lots of details to learn about keeping it safe and putting out a high quality product. I was leary enough that after creating my first loads I took my gun vice to the range, locked my pistol in it and fired my first reload with a ten foot lanyard on the trigger. I started with a product called a Lee Loader. It is a kit, for about 30 bucks, that has everything you need, save for a plastic mallet, that will let you start reloading one caliber. It is a great way to learn. One other thing . . . people will tell you that reloading doesn't save you any $$$ because you shoot more. That kind of logic is a non sequitur. On a shot for shot basis, in the long run, reloading does save you money. The last time I crunched the numbers I'm shooting 9mm for 8.5 cents a shot. I hunt with a 44 magnum. A good hunting load, factory made, is 80cents to a dollar a shot. I can create the same ammo for about 30 cents a shot. Live well, be safe Prof Young |
|
|
|
May 20, 2015, 08:31 PM
|
#4 | |||||||||||
|
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,341
|
Welcome to reloading and thanks for asking our advice.
Quote:
I have compiled a few web sites that seem to have some good information (only some of which came from me). Go get a large mug of whatever you sip when you read and think and visit these sites. Sticky-contains much general information. thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214 http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214 Sticky-contains much general information. thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171 http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230171 New guy considering if/how to get started reloading http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=678589 On the fence http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=678626 "Newby needs help." (A typical new reloader thread). My posts are 11 and 13 thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391 http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=430391 "Just bought my first press. Needs some info tho." (A typical new reloader thread) thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659358 http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659358 "I am looking at getting into reloading for the first time" (A typical new reloader thread) thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=658971 http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=658971 "Considering reloading" (A typical new reloader thread) thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488115 http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488115 "Interested in reloading" (A typical new reloader thread) rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543 http://rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543 "Is the lee classic loader a good starter loader?" A thread from someone considering the Mallet-driven Lee Classic Loader. thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497313 http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497313 "Lee Classic Loader Kit" My post, Minimalist minimal is the seventh post down. rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332 http://rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107332 "45 Colt question-Lee loader" Another Lee Classic Loader thread thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498638 http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498638 "Best starter kit?" rugerforum.net/reloading/33252-best-starter-kit-beginners.html http://rugerforum.net/reloading/3325...beginners.html "To kit or not to kit?" That is the question. My thread. Hard to read apparently rugerforum.net/reloading/33660-kit-not-kit.html http://rugerforum.net/reloading/33660-kit-not-kit.html Informed by my 2010 repopulation of my loading bench (If I knew in '75 what I know now) rugerforum.net/reloading/29385-budget-beginning-bench-you-will-never-outgrow-novice-handloader.html http://rugerforum.net/reloading/2938...andloader.html Thoughts on The Lee Classic Turret Press rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=135951 http://rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=135951 Choosing a press-medium quantities http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=559129 Use what type of scale? (poll) thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410 http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448410 Quote:
Of course, there are only two in current production and the other one (Lee's Deluxe Turret) is an older design and inferior in a handful of respects, though it operates in exactly the same way. Quote:
Quote:
Kempf's kit includes dies. It does not include the Lee Scale (which is a perfectly fine scale, but most other beam scales are easier to use). It includes no manual, either, so you will have to add one or more of those. But it DOES NOT force you to take any of the other peripherals you may not need. (I did not look at the kit you chose.) Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Smokeless powders do not explode, they burn very quickly. If you light small pile of smokeless powder on a plate, it will flare up for a fraction of a second to a couple of seconds. Confined under pressure and it burns much faster. The chemical formulations are designed to be stable, predictable and safe within a narrow "performance envelope". Using a rifle powder to achieve handgun performance (and vice-versa) will force that powder to operate outside its performance envelope and begs for erratic (read: dangerous) results. Powder choices will be best discussed after you have a loading manual or two. Many shotgun powders can do double duty as handgun powders, but not all of them. If it has been listed in a manual (or, better yet, on the powder manufacturer's web site) consider it usable. Quote:
Starting from empty (clean) brass and empty tools (powder measure, priming tool, etc) and ending with ammo, boxed, labeled, ready to shoot, here is my schedule On a single stage, when I first started out but after some experience, I could load 50 per hour. This is in batch mode. On my Lee Classic Turret in continuous mode, the first time out (by this time I was an experienced loader) I knocked out 100 rounds in 47 minutes. I am a bit faster now, but have not clocked myself lately. On any turret press, in batch mode, figure 50 to 75 per hour On my Lee Pro-1000 presses (of course in continuous mode, as batch mode on a progressive is tantamount to oxy-moronic) I was terribly slow. 150 per hour because I could never get used to monitoring simultaneous separate operations. This is the main reason I got rid of them. Hornady or Dillon or RCBS or others' progressive presses can do up to 1,000 rounds in two hours. On a Dillon 1050, double that. But you will need all the automation the big bucks buy. Case feeder, bullet feeder, primer tube loader. That's an investment not only in money but in concentration. Running at those stratospheric production rates is WORK. Quote:
Yes, one inspects each round and multiple times. You inspect the empty case (sometimes inside as well as outside). You inspect the primer seating. You inspect the case again after belling the case mouth. You inspect the powder depth after charging the case. You examine (or measure with calipers) the loaded case dimensions. You test the finished rounds for chambering in a case gauge. Quote:
Quote:
What most people find is that they can load for about one-quarter to one-half the cost of factory ammo of similar quality. Most find their own ammo to be of superior quality, though. However, most loaders do not count their time as a cost. Some include the amortizing the cost of their equipment (spread over the ammunition they make, which can span years). I developed a spreadsheet that allows you to count all sorts of costs, including the gear, the time spent loading and even the time spent learning to load. However, the salient truth is, most reloaders save no money at all. They just shoot a lot more. But, cost or quantity are only two measures. The fish I catch might cost more than the fish I buy; The veggies I grow might cost more than the those I buy; The ammunition I shoot might cost more than retail; Why do I fish, garden and handload? If you have to ask why, you probably won't understand; these activities enrich my life. Lost Sheep Last edited by Lost Sheep; May 20, 2015 at 09:23 PM. |
|||||||||||
|
|
|
May 20, 2015, 08:34 PM
|
#5 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,341
|
10 Advices for the novice loader
It has been a while since I posted this article I wrote.
10 Advices for the novice loader I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universally mentioned, so I put together this list of 10 advices. Much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary". So you can better evaluate my words, here is the focus of my experience. I load for handguns (44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 9mm, 357 Mag, 480 Ruger) a couple hundred per sitting and go through 100 to 500 centerfire rounds per month. I don't cast....yet. When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. My setup was simple. A set of dies, a press, a 2" x 6" plank, some carriage bolts and wing nuts, a scale, two loading blocks. I just mounted the press on the plank wedged into the drawer of an end table. I did not use a loading bench at all. It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly. I still believe in a minimalist approach and and try to keep my inventory of tools low. I do not keep my loading gear set up when not in use, either, but pack them away in small toolboxes until the next loading session. Now, here are my Ten Advices. Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc. Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of (or any) money on equipment. Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps found in their early chapters. The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well so give better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others. The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging. I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Containing no loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. I am told the older editions are better than the newer ones, so the library is looking even better. There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started, but some are better than others. Filter all casual information through a "B.S." filter. Only after you know the processing steps of loading can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack. If building your own kit from scratch, you will be better able to find the parts that will serve your into the future without having to do trade-ins. Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU? Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Generally you get what you pay for and better equipment costs more. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Aluminum generally takes more cleaning and lubrication to last forever. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you think Ford/Chevy owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. RCBS equipment is almost all green, Dillon-blue, Lee-red. Almost no manufacturers cross color lines and many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. Make your own choices. About brand loyalties, an example: Lee Precision makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker (though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes, as Lee has been an innovator both in price leadership which has introduced many to loading who might not otherwise have been able to start the hobby and in introduction of innovative features like their auto-advancing turret presses). But there are detractors who focus on Lee's cheapest offerings to paint even their extremely strong gear as inferior. My advice: Ignore the snobs. On Kits: Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started. Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops (negating the savings you thought the kit gave you), but you will have gotten started, at least. On building your own kit: The thought processes you give to assembling your own kit increases your knowledge about reloading. You may get started a couple weeks later than if you started with a kit, but you will be far ahead in knowledge. RCBS and Dillon seem, by most reports, the best warranty service. But that is reflected in the original purchase prices. Lee has a one year warranty at half the purchase price. You pays your money and you makes your choice. If you buy the higher-end Lee stuff, use the heck out of it the first year (to week out any true manufacturing defects), and give the gear good maintennce, it will last as long as as well as RCBS. Advice #3 While Learning, you may think about options. Progressive, turret or Single Stage? Experimental loads? Pushing performance envelopes? Don't get fancy. While you are learning, stay below maximum power levels (and do not go below book minimums, either). Propellants are designed to run best within a fairly narrow performance envelope. Start in the lower portion of and stay in the mid-range of that envelope. While you are at it, check several different sources for recipes. Different ballistics labs use different guns, primers and conditions and get different results. Look at the range of values in the recipes and stay in the mid-range. Just concentrate on getting the mechanical steps of loading right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, bullet seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a voluminous, "fluffy", powder that is, one that is easy to see that you have charged the case and which will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it. While learning, only perform one operation at a time. Whether you do the one operation 50 (or 20) times on a batch of cases before moving on to the next operation - "Batch Processing" or take one case through all the sequence of operations between empty case to finished cartridge - "Continuous Processing", sometimes known as "Sequential Processing", learn by performing only one operation at a time and concentrating on THAT OPERATION. On a single stage press or a turret press, this is the native way of operation. On a progressive press, the native operation is to perform multiple operations simultaneously. Don't do it. While you can learn on a progressive press, in my opinion too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of (unless you load singly at first). Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME. Until handloading becomes second nature to you. Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke. On the Turret vs Single stage the decision is simpler. You can do everything on a Turret EXACTLY the same way as you do on a single stage (just leave the turret stationary). That is, a Turret IS a single stage if you don't rotate the head. Learning on a progressive can be done successfully, but it is easier to learn to walk in shoes than on roller skates. Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of almost every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. Most keep at least one. Advice #4 Find a mentor. There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technique BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers; 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead") I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best. After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community. Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, easse, cleanliness Your loading bench/room is tantamount to a factory floor. There is a whole profession devoted to industrial engineering, the art and science of production design. Your loading system (layout, process steps, quality control, safety measures, etc) deserves no less attention than that. For example, consider the word "workflow". Place your components' supplies convenient to the hand that will place them into the operation and the receptacle(s) for interim or finished products, too. You can make a significant increase in safety and in speed, too, with well thought out design of your production layout, "A" to "Z", from the lighting to the dropcloth to the fire suppression scheme. One factor often neglected is where the scale is located. Place your scale where it is protected from drafts and vibration and is easy to read and operate, eye level, in good light, etc. Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Ballistic testing has produced some new knowledge over the years and powder chemistry has changed over the years, too. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker. Read previous threads on reloading and watch videos available on the web. But be cautious. There is both good information and bad information found in casual sources, so see my advice #10. Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once) When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying for features you don't need. "The delicious flavor of low price fades fast. The wretched aftertaste of poor quality lingers long." Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride) rather than tool steel. T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases. Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways. Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children (present or future - lead is a hazard, too. Wash after loading and don't eat at your bench). Enough said? Advice #10 Take all with a grain of salt. Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and can easily hit "7" instead of "4" or a "3" instead of a decimal point because they are next to each other on the keypad. Good luck. Lost Sheep Last edited by Lost Sheep; May 21, 2015 at 01:46 AM. |
|
|
|
May 20, 2015, 11:01 PM
|
#6 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 19, 2015
Location: on the firing line forums
Posts: 19
|
Hello, I'm new to the forums! I am ''new'' to reloading as well I have loaded a few hundred rounds of 30 30, few thousand rounds worth of 357, and just started some work on 30 06 and 9mm
I have found that there can be a big cost savings depending on the ammo you load some you can lose cash loading yourself. I'm turning away from the idea from saving cash, to making the loads I want. There is so much control over any reload. I'm starting to enjoy it if you can make a hobby out of it  I've tried searching for a miracle powder to do it all but I have found SO FAR the cheapest rout is best to get the powder optimized for the cartridge you want to load versatility doesn't always mean cost savings. 
__________________
I would rather live by a sword than be killed by one. 
|
|
|
|
May 21, 2015, 10:10 AM
|
#7 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: October 17, 2007
Location: Cowtown of course!
Posts: 1,747
|
__________________
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearms Safety, Pistol and Rifle Instructor “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life......” President John F. Kennedy |
|
|
|
May 21, 2015, 10:54 AM
|
#8 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,787
|
I bought the Kempf kit just a few months ago, and I can definitely recommend it. Add your choice of scale and your components and you are set. It is not hard to set it up in an evening even with no prior experience reloading. It takes me 20 to 25 minutes to load a box of 50, but I don't rush at all (I actually find loading ammo to be quite relaxing), and I check my powder charge on the scale at least every 10 rounds, and frequently more often. I am sure I could go faster if speed was my object, but it just isn't.
Once you have the press you can add calibers for just a little over $50 by buying a die set, a turret, and a storage box. The turrets change in just a minute or two, and your settings are preserved. As for costs, you will see the smallest margin in 9 mm, because the retail price is lowest, but other handgun calibers that cost a lot more at retail reload for at or near the same price. I have so far avoided paying shipping and hazmat fees for powders and primers by buying locally and by ordering from Bass Pro, who ships to your store for pickup without charging for shipping and hazardous materials handling. For bullets, there are several good companies online; I have used X-Treme more than any other and have found their products to be quite good at reasonable prices. Danger to yourself or your guns? Not if you do it right, and I sincerely don't mean that to be a wise-guy response. Get at least one manual, stay within published parameters, be careful of not mixing up your powders, and use some good sense to keep sources of heat and sparks away from your work space. Read the provided posts and read a manual two or three times, and be sure you understand what you are doing before you start, and it can be done safely. Reloading is not for people who don't pay attention to details. |
|
|
|
May 21, 2015, 12:40 PM
|
#9 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: February 7, 2009
Location: Southern Oregon!
Posts: 2,891
|
My addition to Lost Sheep's excellent post, item #10; Pay very little (no) attention to any load data from any forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, "pet loads" website, or gun shop guru. Use load data from one of your reloading manuals beginning at the "starting loads".
You will have years worth of good, safe reloading using reloading manuals information, and be secure in the fact that the info comes from a reliable source. The only exception would be powder manufacturer's web sites... 
__________________
My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees... |
|
|
|
May 21, 2015, 07:20 PM
|
#10 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,326
|
Without starting a war, I would suggest you would be MUCH BETTER jumping up to the Lyman kit. IMO, better press, much better scale, much much better powder measure.
Use Lee dies can save money or Hornady dies come with a free box of bullets....a deal in itself! Yes, Lee will load but why struggle and fidget when you can be pulling the handle. O-ring lock rings, really?? |
|
|
|
May 21, 2015, 09:15 PM
|
#11 | |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,341
|
No war, but horse tracks have betting for a reason
Quote:
I use Lee Classic Turret, Auto-Disk powder measure or dippers and prime on-press. We get along just fine. He likes the way his tools work and he knows how to use them. (And I am the one who got him into reloading.) I know how to make the "O" ring retention (lock) nuts work and they do just fine for me. I haven't had to change their adjustment in a long while, but when I do, I don't need any tools; my fingers do very well and the adjustment stays put. Despite the tenuous nature of friction fit and my early misgivings about relying on it (I started with RCBS dies on a RockChucker press) I am satisfied that the "O" ring design is practical. But, that's what makes horse races. Everyone has their favorites. Lost Sheep |
|
|
|
|
May 22, 2015, 08:30 AM
|
#12 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: August 22, 2013
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 255
|
As to saving money. $200 to Dillon and Inline Fabrication today. Probably another $700 to Wilson Combat soon to fix what isn't broken. You're Doomed.
|
|
|
|
May 22, 2015, 12:52 PM
|
#13 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 205
|
The people here are so helpful. You've got a lot of good information there op. Only thing I would add is start with a slow powder, avoid fast ones. What does that mean?
Do : Unique AutoComp 231/HP38 Longshot (though I hate this powder in handgun it will work) HS6 Don't : Titewad Titegroup Red Dot Bullseye Maybe : Power pistol Clay dot Green dot Blue dot (I started with this but it's not economical and fairly limited in pistol)
__________________
I kind of like weaponry. |
|
|
|
May 22, 2015, 03:41 PM
|
#14 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,326
|
Might add Univeral and AA#5 to the do list and remove hs-6. Just my opinion.
|
|
|
|
May 22, 2015, 05:32 PM
|
#15 | |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,341
|
Quote:
When I introduced my friend to reloading, I got a powder with low energy density (Trail Boss). It makes it easier to keep track of the quantity of powder going into the cartridges. Once the skills involved in the metalwork are familiar, choosing powder is the next thing to learn. (My opinion) Slow powders and light bullets do not play well together (flame cutting and barrel erosion come into play). Slow powders and low-power loadings do not work well, either. With light loads, my rule is to use faster powder ("quickness" is the ballisticians' term of art). The way I choose a powder is to choose the bullet and the velocity, then go into the loading manuals' recipe pages and find powders that deliver those at the powder's mid-range loading. I make a list of those candidate powders and then see what I can find on my retailers' shelves. With my desired velocity/power/energy levels in the middle of the performance envelope of the powder, I figure I have the most flexibility and the powder will be well within its optimal operating pressure, yielding the most stable performance. At least, that's my theory. Lost Sheep |
|
|
|
|
May 22, 2015, 06:33 PM
|
#16 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: December 28, 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 205
|
Lost sheep,
Bullseye is a fast powder with low density. Easy to double charge if not paying attentin. Unique may not be far from it (it is slower thoigh), but it has more density and less chance of overfilling a case.
__________________
I kind of like weaponry. |
|
|
|
May 23, 2015, 03:12 PM
|
#17 | |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: February 7, 2009
Location: Southern Oregon!
Posts: 2,891
|
Quote:
The problem is not the powder but a sloppy reloader. Now is the time (new reloader) to establish safe working practices. I have been reloading for nearly 30 years and still look in each case I put powder in before I seat a bullet! Not using Bullseye because it don't take up room in a case is a cop-out for not paying attention and or not learning safe methods from the get-go... Kinda like not driving on the freeway 'cause you might get in a wreck... Edited to make it simpler, thanks to Lost Sheep's following post as I prolly used the word incorrectly;
__________________
My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees... Last edited by mikld; May 24, 2015 at 11:07 AM. |
|
|
|
|
May 23, 2015, 10:22 PM
|
#18 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 3,341
|
Definition of "Density"
I realize this may be seen as nit-picking, but terminology is important sometimes.
Sand has a higher density than water. More weight per unit volume. Fill a bucket with sand and it will weigh more than the same bucket filled with water. Bullseye has more energy per unit volume than Trail Boss. Bullseye also has more energy per unit weight than Unique. When I think of gunpowder and charging my cases, I think of energy content. Is this where our thinking diverges? So, which powder has more energy density and is your base unit weight or volume? Lost Sheep |
|
|
|
May 25, 2015, 03:36 AM
|
#19 |
|
Junior member
Join Date: January 1, 2015
Posts: 312
|
Looks like the OP is overwhelmed by all the long posts and many links.
M2C: Since you are planning to crank out quiet some ammo and your time seems to be an issue I suggest getting a Dillon 650 press with the setup DVD, dies and accessories. Dillon has a very good buying guide on their website at www.dillon.com. Focus only on this press, buy only bulk supplies, start with the caliber you shoot most. With this press you can load 1000 rounds in one hour. It’s not a cheap setup by any means. It’s quality equipment and you can use the saved time to make more money if that’s a concern. |
|
|
|
May 25, 2015, 10:27 AM
|
#20 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 10,442
|
If Jdougg is still listening, don't get into reloading just because you think it will save you tons of money for ammo.
It might, it might not. Do get into reloading for the hobby of making your own ammo. Otherwise, like so many others who have disappointingly gone down this road, the ammo will turn out too lousy to be of use, and the equipment will likely wind up collecting dust in the closet. Just a thought.
__________________
Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.” |
|
|
|
May 29, 2015, 01:10 PM
|
#21 |
|
Senior Member
Join Date: August 25, 2011
Location: California
Posts: 776
|
Handloading is not everyone’s thing.
Most folks I know of with an interest in firearms do not handload. I know of individuals who should have or have ceased the activity/hobby. Fortunately none I personally know have experienced a tragic event. Some view it like a business where production/productivity is the goal in terms of time and/or quantity. Safety should be the priority with everything else secondary.Example of priority is the case must be charged only once with the proper type and weight powder, any doubts and the entire lot of charged cases should be scraped. In my setting that means the loading tray of up to 50 cases. A non-charged case/cartridge has the potential of being as dangerous as a double charged case/cartridge because of a stuck bullet in the barrel, squib. Secondary priority should be accuracy or rather consistency of the powder charge. Consistency is related to the powder dispenser setting and method. Some of us like to keep the powder dispenser filled within a certain range and/or tap the dispenser to aid in charge consistency. I have yet to elevate to a progressive press, more likely to motorize a process. Generally process hundreds of cases at a time for a single process. While most of us start handloading because of cost in the long run I find the knowledge gained gives a better in depth understanding/appreciation of the mechanics of various firearms in terms of the interaction of the cartridge and firearm that I would otherwise not know. Some designs are superior in many respects while others less so. And my choice of arms over the years has changed because of it |
|
|
|
May 29, 2015, 01:57 PM
|
#22 |
|
Member
Join Date: March 4, 2009
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 38
|
I LOVE my Lee Classic Turret Press. Best bargain out there for reloading in my humble opinion. Here is a pic of my setup....
 Any question just give me a holler. John |
|
|
|
| Tags |
| 9mm , amunition , brass , handloading , press |
|
|
