smallest mousegun(within reason) for purchase - Page 4

DG45 · November 13, 2010, 03:28 PM

Actually, I'd say its more a case of "generally accepted wisdom" that 380s are the minimum caliber you should choose for a defense weapon than it is any particular "expert's" opinion, although I have seen that opinion stated by any number of so-called "expert's" over the years and I agree with them; just can't come up with ones name right now. But, anyone on here is welcome to agree or disagree with me on this as they so choose. To each his own.

And, no, 32 bullets don't bounce of denims but they have been known to bounce off bones.

Nobodys yet addressed the issue of thickness and weight as important factors in concealment (which, after all, is a mouse guns forte) and the kel-tec P3AT is still the thinnest and lightest of them all; regardless of price.

Glenn E. Meyer · November 13, 2010, 05:02 PM

Stay on mouseguns and not Penguin guns, please.

Thanks

Glenn

mavracer · November 13, 2010, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Actually, I'd say its more a case of "generally uninformed" that 380s are the minimum caliber you should choose for a defense weapon.

If you look at the actual tests of european ammo of the two rounds there is little difference between 32 and 380 in terms of penatration and if you think a .043 larger hole is gouin to save you good luck with that.

Quote:

And, no, 32 bullets don't bounce of denims but they have been known to bounce off bones.

so will a .380, neither is going to break a shoulder blade and neither has hydrostatic shock value.they are going to make a small hole in things thats all.

zhangman · November 13, 2010, 10:16 PM

I just picked up a new Ruger LCP .380 ACP. IMO it will do the job. I use Horndady Hollow points, 90gr. I haven't shot it too much yet, but the groupings seem to stay around 2-3" @ 15 yds.

It will fit in most pant pockets and even better with a "pocket holster". You can even carry IWB and don't know it's there. Trigger pull is 5.6 lb. It holds 6 & 1. Weighs about 10+ ounces. Cost varies according to Gunshops.

It cost me $289 + tax. Breakdown is a snap. Since I have a Ruger P44, I am familiar with the line.

tenusdad · November 14, 2010, 07:17 PM

These days a Ruger LCP or NAA 22 mag mini revolver are reliable in function.

Regarding 32 acp power, I once saw one go off accidently. The old MAB French police pistol was pointed at a plywood workbench about a foot away from the muzzel. The bullet skidded across the bench, ran into a thin plywood wall and stopped. Ears ringing, I reached down and picked up the fmj bullet. It was in good enough shape to reload. I like the old 32 acp but it didn't impress me in this instance. BTW, almost no damage to anything.

therealdeal · November 14, 2010, 07:47 PM

tenusdad,

there was a very nice deringer there that I almost bought. the limited two shots was the only reason I didn't buy it. looking back, the deringer's 2 shots would have served my wife perfectly. she didn't want a semi, and the deringer is a mousegun in my opinion(the S&W we went with is a great CCW, but we had to sacrifice the size factor which was hard since thats why I was going for the mousegun in the 1st place).

this site I just found when I did a search. The one at the shop was stainless. I think it was a .38 too like in the video:

http://www.derringerpistol.com/

spacecoast · November 14, 2010, 08:04 PM

Pictured below are my 1913 edition of the 1908 Colt Vest Pocket .25 ACP (the original Mousegun?) and a modern-day .380 ACP pocket pistol that is 96 years its junior. I consider the Colt both a mousegun and a viable defensive option with 50 gr. FMJ cartridges, although I carry the LCP on a regular basis. The Colt is fun and easy to shoot, and is quite accurate at SD distances. As you can see, the Colt is quite a bit smaller than the LCP, which I do not consider a mousegun but just a super-compact gun shooting a mainstream cartridge. Fully loaded (both 6+1), the all-steel Colt outweighs the Ruger by only 2 ounces (14 vs. 12) and out-classics it by a mile.

Added - Except for the grip, the Colt is thinner than the LCP by what appears to be 0.1" or so. I'll try to put some calipers on it to be a bit more precise.

mavracer · November 15, 2010, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Regarding 32 acp power, I once saw one go off accidently. The old MAB French police pistol was pointed at a plywood workbench about a foot away from the muzzel. The bullet skidded across the bench, ran into a thin plywood wall and stopped. Ears ringing, I reached down and picked up the fmj bullet. It was in good enough shape to reload. I like the old 32 acp but it didn't impress me in this instance. BTW, almost no damage to anything.

Had a guy A/D at the range I shoot at with a .380 Winchester FMJ ammo chipped the formica on the bench and just stopped right there.
IMHO the .380 is no more impressive.

KSDeputy · November 15, 2010, 09:46 AM

The smallest I have is a Walther TPH in .22lr. The smallest I carry as a backup is a Walther PPK in .380. I carry a Smith & Wesson CS45. I carry a .45 because I just don't trust the smaller calibers. When I was working, we traded in our S&W .357 revolvers, we were issued S&W .45 semi-autos. The office has now switched to Glock .40 caliber semi-autos.

Justice4Lady · November 15, 2010, 11:37 AM

Raven MP-25. nice, small, fits in any pocket I have in anything I wear. Is on my person nearly 24/7.
As to the myth's out there of reliability- nonsense. As long as u load the magazines properly, and seat them fully, it will fire every time.
Myths of a lack of "accuracy" at distances? I avg. 6 rounds into 2", consistently, out to as far as 40 ft.

And for the "power/penetration" myths? Utter nonsense-with the right loads. Speer Gold Dot PPs in 35 grain-work like a charm. Saved my bacon 2 different incidents when something "bigger or better" simply wasnt available. Further, in years of working in a trauma center with multiple shooting victims per night, .25 was the single most-fatally used round, hands-down.

November 13, 2010, 05:02 PM	#77
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Stay on mouseguns and not Penguin guns, please. Thanks Glenn __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

November 14, 2010, 07:17 PM	#80
tenusdad Junior member Join Date: April 27, 2008 Posts: 396	These days a Ruger LCP or NAA 22 mag mini revolver are reliable in function. Regarding 32 acp power, I once saw one go off accidently. The old MAB French police pistol was pointed at a plywood workbench about a foot away from the muzzel. The bullet skidded across the bench, ran into a thin plywood wall and stopped. Ears ringing, I reached down and picked up the fmj bullet. It was in good enough shape to reload. I like the old 32 acp but it didn't impress me in this instance. BTW, almost no damage to anything. Last edited by tenusdad; November 14, 2010 at 07:34 PM.

November 14, 2010, 07:47 PM	#81
therealdeal Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 627	tenusdad, there was a very nice deringer there that I almost bought. the limited two shots was the only reason I didn't buy it. looking back, the deringer's 2 shots would have served my wife perfectly. she didn't want a semi, and the deringer is a mousegun in my opinion(the S&W we went with is a great CCW, but we had to sacrifice the size factor which was hard since thats why I was going for the mousegun in the 1st place). this site I just found when I did a search. The one at the shop was stainless. I think it was a .38 too like in the video: http://www.derringerpistol.com/ __________________ NRA Distinguished Life Member "Abraham Lincoln freed all men, but Sam Colt made them all equal." (post Civil War slogan)

November 14, 2010, 08:04 PM	#82
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	My contribution to the mousegun discussion Pictured below are my 1913 edition of the 1908 Colt Vest Pocket .25 ACP (the original Mousegun?) and a modern-day .380 ACP pocket pistol that is 96 years its junior. I consider the Colt both a mousegun and a viable defensive option with 50 gr. FMJ cartridges, although I carry the LCP on a regular basis. The Colt is fun and easy to shoot, and is quite accurate at SD distances. As you can see, the Colt is quite a bit smaller than the LCP, which I do not consider a mousegun but just a super-compact gun shooting a mainstream cartridge. Fully loaded (both 6+1), the all-steel Colt outweighs the Ruger by only 2 ounces (14 vs. 12) and out-classics it by a mile. Added - Except for the grip, the Colt is thinner than the LCP by what appears to be 0.1" or so. I'll try to put some calipers on it to be a bit more precise. Last edited by spacecoast; November 15, 2010 at 08:07 AM.

November 15, 2010, 09:46 AM	#84
KSDeputy Member Join Date: August 15, 2009 Location: NE Kansas Posts: 79	Smallest Mousegun The smallest I have is a Walther TPH in .22lr. The smallest I carry as a backup is a Walther PPK in .380. I carry a Smith & Wesson CS45. I carry a .45 because I just don't trust the smaller calibers. When I was working, we traded in our S&W .357 revolvers, we were issued S&W .45 semi-autos. The office has now switched to Glock .40 caliber semi-autos.

November 13, 2010, 03:28 PM	#76
DG45 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Posts: 904	Actually, I'd say its more a case of "generally accepted wisdom" that 380s are the minimum caliber you should choose for a defense weapon than it is any particular "expert's" opinion, although I have seen that opinion stated by any number of so-called "expert's" over the years and I agree with them; just can't come up with ones name right now. But, anyone on here is welcome to agree or disagree with me on this as they so choose. To each his own. And, no, 32 bullets don't bounce of denims but they have been known to bounce off bones. Nobodys yet addressed the issue of thickness and weight as important factors in concealment (which, after all, is a mouse guns forte) and the kel-tec P3AT is still the thinnest and lightest of them all; regardless of price.

November 13, 2010, 10:16 PM	#79
zhangman Junior Member Join Date: August 29, 2010 Location: West Georgia Posts: 13	I just picked up a new Ruger LCP .380 ACP. IMO it will do the job. I use Horndady Hollow points, 90gr. I haven't shot it too much yet, but the groupings seem to stay around 2-3" @ 15 yds. It will fit in most pant pockets and even better with a "pocket holster". You can even carry IWB and don't know it's there. Trigger pull is 5.6 lb. It holds 6 & 1. Weighs about 10+ ounces. Cost varies according to Gunshops. It cost me $289 + tax. Breakdown is a snap. Since I have a Ruger P44, I am familiar with the line.

November 15, 2010, 11:37 AM	#85
Justice4Lady Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Posts: 33	Raven MP-25. nice, small, fits in any pocket I have in anything I wear. Is on my person nearly 24/7. As to the myth's out there of reliability- nonsense. As long as u load the magazines properly, and seat them fully, it will fire every time. Myths of a lack of "accuracy" at distances? I avg. 6 rounds into 2", consistently, out to as far as 40 ft. And for the "power/penetration" myths? Utter nonsense-with the right loads. Speer Gold Dot PPs in 35 grain-work like a charm. Saved my bacon 2 different incidents when something "bigger or better" simply wasnt available. Further, in years of working in a trauma center with multiple shooting victims per night, .25 was the single most-fatally used round, hands-down.