The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 26, 2019, 10:04 AM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,031
7.62x51 penetrates 13 FEET of ballistic gel... and a watermelon.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...etration-test/

A company has introduced a new supercavitating bullet for enhanced penetration. The bullet in question penetrated an amazing 13 feet of ballistic gel before taking out a watermelon.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old May 26, 2019, 10:49 AM   #2
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 7,195
Bartholomew, we had a shooting and it was declared a good shooting. My wife came home and ask me if I had heard bout the shooting. She said she was a witness; to keep the day from coming apart for some 80 other witnesses she had to exaggerate the truth. The next day most of the other 80 witnesses came to her and made the point the story of what happened was not the same story she told. The up side?: There was no mass hysteria.

So before these bullets get out into the hands of the shooting public like black rifles I want the manufacturer of the bullets to be accountable for every bullet they make.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old May 26, 2019, 11:56 AM   #3
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,031
Given that the round weighs 308 grains (ironic), I doubt that this will be “available to the public” given U.S. laws on armor piercing ammunition.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old May 26, 2019, 06:00 PM   #4
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 1,944
F. Guffey, I wouldn't brag that your wife gave false information as a witness. If she did so for an official report, that is likely a significant criminal offense in itself and could negatively affect the chances of a successful trial.

Also, the color of the rifle makes no difference. If you think things like the AR-15 are unsuitable for citizens, I'd love to hear your rationale and supporting evidence.
raimius is offline  
Old May 26, 2019, 07:47 PM   #5
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,105
Interesting. I would like to see more on the new supercavitating bullet. I am not sure if I am more impressed with the distance or the fact that they were able to keep it in the gel over the distance.

I am not impressed with their Metric to English conversion. 0.5 meters isn't 2ft. 0.6 meters is.

I have to admit, I was expecting something exciting to happen to the watermelon when it was "taken out."

It may not come available to the public, but not because of legalities so much because of expense and lack of a market. This obviously isn't designed as handgun ammunition.

https://rocketffl.com/ap-ammo-are-ar...bullets-legal/
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old May 26, 2019, 08:10 PM   #6
Rangerrich99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2014
Location: Kinda near Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,122
It doesn't look real. It looks like a magic trick.
Rangerrich99 is offline  
Old May 26, 2019, 11:43 PM   #7
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Potatoes and Hops
Posts: 11,851
Cast bullet, of a relatively soft alloy: ('70s/'80s era clip-on) wheel weights + 2% tin.
124" + 3.5" seasoned oak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jwjVxIJV-s

__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old May 26, 2019, 11:44 PM   #8
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 12,105
Ok, I found this video of the manufacturer discussing the bullets...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnR1rcvku4c

They seem to be under the impression that supercavitation is going to result in hydrostatic shock or a greatly likelihood of hydrostatic shock. After watching the bullet go through all that gel, I am thinking that it is far less apt to produce hydrostatic shock and is more apt to just pencil through tissue with very little disruption. As seen in the video, the regular tumbling round caused a comparatively huge shock wave in the gel. The supercavitating bullet penciled right through with little disturbance. Given that hydrostatic shock requires a shock wave to travel through the body to damage neural centers remote to the wound location, I don't see how hydrostatic shock is going to occur with less of a shock wave. The supercavitating doesn't seem to do much beyond helping the bullet pass through the medium.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old May 27, 2019, 04:30 AM   #9
kozak6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,030
The article mentions carbides. Considering the extreme density of the rounds, that's probably tungsten carbide which is ...problematic.

It's not interesting to me. It's not useful to me, probably isn't affordable, and I probably can't even buy it since it's likely "armor piercing".
kozak6 is offline  
Old May 27, 2019, 06:26 AM   #10
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenMauser
Cast bullet, of a relatively soft alloy: ('70s/'80s era clip-on) wheel weights + 2% tin.
124" + 3.5" seasoned oak
More of that dangerous 19th century technology in the hands of the public!

Nice job on keeping it on all 22 jugs.

kozak6, I’m not sure I’d want to be zipping tungsten carbide bullets down the barrel at 2700fps. That seems like it might shorten barrel life considerably.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old May 27, 2019, 10:00 AM   #11
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 7,195
Quote:
F. Guffey, I wouldn't brag that your wife gave false information as a witness.
My wife and I took the same conceal carry class. The instructor mentioned the good shooting; so I asked him if he was there. The answer was no so I asked him if he would like to talk to someone that was there. He said 'yes'. When she finished he had no questions and there was no one is the full classroom interested in shooting someone in a crowd.



F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old May 27, 2019, 10:02 AM   #12
F. Guffey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Posts: 7,195
Or shooting someone with a crowd standing behind him.

F. Guffey
F. Guffey is offline  
Old May 27, 2019, 11:44 AM   #13
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 3,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Guffey View Post
Or shooting someone with a crowd standing behind him.

F. Guffey
Automobiles driven by drunks in crowed venues.
(Penske) trucks. (or formerly known as Ryder)
Machete' in a crowd attached to a wacko.
Vaporization of (a certain brand) organophosphate in a building.
etc, etc.

If these 'supercavitating' bullets were such threats / so great, they would have been outlawed as fast as the pure plastic gun threats.
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Old May 27, 2019, 12:11 PM   #14
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
As seen in the video, the regular tumbling round caused a comparatively huge shock wave in the gel. The supercavitating bullet penciled right through with little disturbance.
Which makes sense since drag on the nose of a spitzer bullet is a big contributor to tumbling. When you eliminate the drag, you eliminate the tumble and it just pencils on through like a javelin.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old May 27, 2019, 12:33 PM   #15
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,211
Ballistic gel isn't exactly armour plate. And everybody knows how evil watermelons can be. snicker.
A 7.62NATO Ball round will go through several bad guys with no trouble. And a 7.62NATO round doesn't even start to give its best penetration until it has traveled about 300 yards. Takes that long for the bullet to stabilize.
"...U.S. laws on armor piercing ammunition..." Those would be the unelected civil servants ATF regulations, as I recall. The daft part is that .308 AP is evil, but .30-06 AP is not. Some nonsense about there being .308 Win handguns.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old May 27, 2019, 12:33 PM   #16
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,089
Well even if it did 13 feet of ballistic jell (write me down as total disbelief) other than shooting a whale int eh tail (poetic yet) you would need to let alone want to penetrate something by 10 feet or more ?

And gell performance has nothign to do with armor piercing.
__________________
Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not
RC20 is offline  
Old May 28, 2019, 07:32 AM   #17
USNRet93
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2018
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 902
Posted by this guy
Edwin Sarkissian

Interesting story, his country of origin, his story, his business'..
__________________
PhormerPhantomPhlyer

"Tools not Trophies”
USNRet93 is offline  
Old May 28, 2019, 08:55 AM   #18
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 3,688
One thing that amazed me was how perfectly straight the bullet traveled in the gel. Most high speed ballistic gel videos seem to show a fair amount of wobble...
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Old May 28, 2019, 07:44 PM   #19
tmd47762
Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 84
The usual reason for supercavitation is less about penetrating a target and more about going through water. My guess is it’d be pretty good for shooting fish, although the utility in that seems limited.
tmd47762 is offline  
Old May 28, 2019, 09:31 PM   #20
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 3,688
The video on their website shows them using these bullets to stop torpedos or low flying helos......
__________________
!أنا لست إرهابياً
TXAZ is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09982 seconds with 8 queries