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Old March 13, 2019, 11:36 AM   #51
TheScout
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Okay. I’m working on sight picture now. Thank you
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Old March 13, 2019, 02:18 PM   #52
Erno86
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There is the artillery hold for break barrel air rifles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV7zqBcW83Y
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Old March 19, 2019, 05:40 PM   #53
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Thanks Erno86. That artillery hold helped a lot. The only problem for me is how much creep there is in the Poweline 880’s trigger. Even pulling the trigger slowly will caused the whole gun to move because of how heavy it is
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Old March 19, 2019, 07:14 PM   #54
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Quote:
Even pulling the trigger slowly will caused the whole gun to move because of how heavy it is
I got here late but at least I made it

Adjust your finger position on the trigger on each pull until the rifle moves the least . First you need to pull the trigger straight back . Sometimes if your finger is all the way over the trigger to the first joint of the finger . You can actually pull the gun in the direction of what ever hand you are using . Or if you barely have just the tip of your finger on the trigger you can push the rifle in the opposite direction . With a heavy trigger , you really have to concentrate on pulling it straight back and if there's a bunch of take up before the break it's even harder .
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Old March 19, 2019, 10:05 PM   #55
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Thanks for the tip. I’ll try that. Most of it I think, is that being a weaker guy like me fighting that heavy trigger, my hand starts to shake. Causing the whole gun to shake
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Old March 20, 2019, 12:45 AM   #56
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Are you shooting pellets or BBs in the 880? BBs are problematic in rifled bores. They have to be undersized so that they don't jam in the rifling. An undersized steel ball rattling down a rifled bore is not a recipe for accuracy, and it's also not really good for the barrel either.

Get some decent pellets, and maybe experiment a little bit with different kinds of pellets. The 880 is not a premium airgun, but it should be able to group pretty well with pellets it "likes".

A heavy trigger won't make it impossible to shoot a gun accurately, but it does make it harder to get good accuracy. Unfortunately, people tend to focus on the trigger more and that's mostly unproductive. It took me years to realize that a heavy trigger only makes poor trigger technique more obvious. With proper technique, even a heavy trigger can be shot well.

If your hand is shaking, it's more because you're tensing up when pulling the trigger than it is because the trigger is too heavy.

In a rifle, the whole gun can't shake unless all of you shakes. You're holding it with your off hand and it's against your shoulder firmly. The trigger hand shouldn't be applying any significant force to the gun other than what it takes to move the trigger straight back into your shoulder.
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Old March 20, 2019, 09:15 AM   #57
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"You have to treat your trigger finger as it's own entity."

Follow through on the trigger pull. Don't try to snatch the shot. Accept the wobble. Slight rearward pressure on the trigger hand. You can practice trigger pull with a top clicker ball point pen.

Work out with wrist and finger strengtheners equipment.
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Old March 20, 2019, 01:10 PM   #58
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I had a powerline 880, that thing would hit bottle caps ay 50yds with a 4x scope using the flat nose pellets.
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Old March 21, 2019, 08:14 PM   #59
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Thanks again for the advice. I'm working on trigger now. Random question: When learning rifle marksmanship, is it better to do it with a scope or iron sights? Or does it not matter and just depends on how capable your eyes are at the distance you're shooting.
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Old March 21, 2019, 09:07 PM   #60
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For me with a scope from a bench of rest ( not free hand )as far as seeing what your trigger pull is doing to your point of aim (POA) and if it's moving off target as you pull the trigger . You can do it with irons but having the crosshairs magnified on the target makes it much easier to see the movement for me .

The further out your target is the better . It takes less movement to create a larger seeable POA shift the further away your target is . This does not mean you need to actually shoot 100 or 200 yds . I'm not sure if you can dry fire pellet guns but if you can that's how I'd practice . Pick something small to aim at 100+ yards away and practice pulling the trigger and see how your sights move off target or at all .

Once you've practiced that to the point of holding your sight picture steady . Then shoot a few at your normal distance and see how you do . Don't forget about cheeckweld and your breathing .

BASIC TRIGGER CONTROL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FcVrYqtnXE

ADVANCED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noGN55b-kVI
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Old March 21, 2019, 11:56 PM   #61
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Quote:
When learning rifle marksmanship, is it better to do it with a scope or iron sights?
Iron sights develop marksmanship. They will highlight any mistakes you are making which is the reason advance marksmanship schools never start out on optics. Optics mask small errors that stand out when using irons. If you do not recognize your mistakes, you cannot fix the error.

Quote:
The sniper’s use of iron sights serves mainly as a back-up system to his
optical sight. However, iron sights are an excellent means of training for the
sniper. The sniper is expected to be proficient in the use of iron sights before
he obtains formal sniper training and he must remain proficient.
There is a reason you train on iron before glass.

http://www.bits.de/NRANEU/others/amd...22%2803%29.pdf
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Old March 22, 2019, 12:11 AM   #62
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Quote:
How Iron Sights Made Me the Marksman I Am Today
https://www.fieldandstream.com/Rifle...th-Iron-Sights

Good article....guy learned on a BB gun just like you Scout.
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Old March 22, 2019, 09:04 AM   #63
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Great input so far, but a few quick thoughts from me:
-Parallax may be an issue at 25 yards. Not sure what scope you have or what the parallax setting is on it. Try at 50 yards and you may get the exact same group size.
-I see you said you've been looking into technique for precision shooting. Great idea, because practicing bad technique will only get you so far. You can't improve past a certain point no matter how much you practice if you are practicing bad technique.
-To answer your question about scope/iron sights, I think they are different skills and do not depend on the other. Some people will tell you should learn with iron sights as davidsog makes the argument for. There's validity to the argument. I learned to shoot on iron sights and the only rifle I have iron sights is the 22 I learned with. If the scope on my 22 breaks, the rifle will sit in my gun cabinet until I can replace the scope. I don't like shooting iron sights, so I don't. If you want to master both, that's your decision and doesn't matter one way or the other. Have fun as that's the whole point of shooting. Quality of your eye sight is also a big factor. I'm still in my 30s, but I've met plenty of people who were pretty gung-ho about iron sites that switched to scopes just because their eyesight deteriorated.

Last edited by ndking1126; March 22, 2019 at 09:22 AM.
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Old March 22, 2019, 10:06 AM   #64
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Quote:
Great idea, because practicing bad technique will only get you so far.
Yep, if you are covering up mistakes you will not be able to correct them.

Quote:
Have fun as that's the whole point of shooting!
Exactly.

Quote:
Quality of your eye sight is also a big factor.
It gets us all.

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2...or-aging-eyes/

https://chrissajnog.com/vision-shooting-aging-part-1/
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Old March 22, 2019, 01:07 PM   #65
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Thank you again for all of the advice and tips. I'm still using the stock Daisy 4x15 that came with the rifle, so no parallax adjustment. I too see arguments for both scopes and irons. For the mean time I do want to have a closer look at how my trigger finger impacts point of aim, so I will stick with scope for the time being. Once I stop experimenting with that and once we get deeper into the Spring time I'll generally take the scope off because I find it more reliable to use irons against a pest or even a couple soda cans.
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Old March 22, 2019, 01:07 PM   #66
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My point about using the scope was that as someone new to this he will see the POA shifts as he pulls the trigger easier with a scope then with irons . Now i can shoot ok with irons but don’t shoot with them very often so maybe there better to see your POA shift do to poor trigger technique , id think a scope would be easier to see that . He did after all ask specifically about working on trigger pull .
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Old March 22, 2019, 03:36 PM   #67
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It's beneficial for a novice shooter to learn how to shoot iron sights first. Then...if they want, they can graduate to a scope. I do like iron peep sights on some of my rifles, with my old eyes needing a diopter rear peep sight.

One of my favorite movies that spurred me to learn how to shoot is "Quigley Down Under."

"Aim small miss small" --- Shoot at small reactive targets. I like to shoot at a hung cowbell, at 50 & 100 yards with my air rifle. Any closer...I like to shoot at empty shotgun shell hulls, perched on top of a wooden carpenter horse. You'll get instant feedback with a reactive target, on whether you correctly cracked-off a shot or not.

A couple of tips I learned from master marksman - David Tubb, who has written books on marksmanship --- Try to use bone to bone contact with your stance, instead of muscle to muscle contact.

For a right hand shooter's offhand or standing position: If you keep placing your shots to the right of the target --- move your left foot to the left a little bit and vice versa.
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If you do use a variable scope in the standing or offhand position...try to set it on the lowest power that you can accurately shoot with. Any high magnification will only exacerbate the wobble.

And breathe..if your vision starts to blur --- You're not breathing enough, with the blood not getting enough oxygen to the eyes. Don't hyperventilate, because you could pass out.
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Last edited by Erno86; March 22, 2019 at 03:55 PM.
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Old March 22, 2019, 03:50 PM   #68
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Quote:
It's beneficial for a novice shooter to learn how to shoot iron sights first.
I don't disagree on the whole but he's just working on trigger pull . You don't even need to shoot to work on that . Also if he's new and shooting every time , how by him self will he know if it was his trigger pull or something else that through off the shot .

Example . I was shooting one day and not well ( for me ) The guy next to me said make sure you don't pull the trigger until your sights are perfectly aligned with the target . Which I replied , I am or I would not have pulled the trigger . Clearly I wasn't but It sure seemed like I was to me .
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Old March 22, 2019, 07:41 PM   #69
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Quote:
Example . I was shooting one day and not well ( for me ) The guy next to me said make sure you don't pull the trigger until your sights are perfectly aligned with the target . Which I replied , I am or I would not have pulled the trigger . Clearly I wasn't but It sure seemed like I was to me .
Which is why a coach is so helpful. Get your friends involved scout or find someone to go with you. They will see things you do not and vice versa.

It is a social sport.

Quote:
You don't even need to shoot to work on that .

Absolutely. Dime washer dry firing drills are extremely helpful in developing trigger skills.
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Old March 23, 2019, 03:21 PM   #70
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For an air rifle or 22 rimfire --- You need a scope that has a parallax adjustment from 10 yards to infinity.

May I suggest...for your training:

David Tubb - The Art & Technique of the Modern Match Rifle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLXc4sK8fOI
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Old March 23, 2019, 07:35 PM   #71
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Another reason to use iron sights is if you have "price point" equipment, it's relatively easy to see if iron sights are misaligned, loose, etc. A scope can have an internal problem that can't really be diagnosed easily from the outside.

Iron sights are harder to use and may not have the "cool gadget" factor of a scope, but when they fail or are having problems, it's a lot easier to detect it.

I would, at the least, try some shooting with the iron sights. You may find that you get better results immediately--that wouldn't surprise me at all since the scope you're using is a $14 item (give or take $3) and can't really be expected to be top quality at that kind of price.
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Old March 24, 2019, 01:32 PM   #72
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Quality of the gun and quality of the ammo come first. If either of those aren’t up to the task, doesn’t matter how good the person behind the trigger is.
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Old March 26, 2019, 11:42 AM   #73
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I’m working on some reactive targets nice. It’s nice to have. Better than having to walk down range or use binoculars to see where my shots landed. My groups are getting better but it’s still inconsistent. Sometimes I’ll have 1-2inxh groups and sometimes I’ll have 3-4 inch groups. It is nice to see a few tighter groups than I used to though
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Old March 26, 2019, 03:01 PM   #74
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Keep at it. I still have good days and bad days. There are many, many things that can influence your shots. How much caffeine you've had, or not had can affect things....
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Old March 26, 2019, 11:09 PM   #75
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The thing is whatever you are failing at you've been failing at for 3 years. That error becomes ingrained.

Biggest thing I see is failure to follow through. Take your shot and hold your sight picture for a 5 count after. Just like when I shoot my bow, I maintain my stance until the arrow hits the target. Real easy to let your brain get ahead of you.

Then there is the stance, it has to be natural. If you are twisting at all to get on target then you will release that tension as soon as you fire the shot. Don't think you can't move that rifle between the trigger break and the bullet leaving the barrel, you sure can. Plus muscles under tension are very unstable.
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