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Old February 25, 2019, 09:00 PM   #1
TheScout
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Am I doing something wrong here?

Hi all. I'm new to the forum. I've been shooting for a while now. I'm a younger guy (won't say how old) but I'm in my early adult years. Because I don't get very much range time, I resort to air rifle shooting. I've been shooting for 3 years now and something just seems off.
The main issue is my groupings. With the air rifle at 25 yards standing and open sights, I can get 3 inches on a good day (a really good day). Even with a 4x scope, a good rest and taking my time. I get 1-2 inches at best. Something seems off here. I know I'm not the best shooter, but after 3 years, I thought I should be better than that shouldn't I? Please let me know.
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Old February 25, 2019, 09:14 PM   #2
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Scout,
First off, welcome to the forum!

While i'm not that familiar with airguns, it would be really hard to tell what exactly is going on.
Firstly, we can't see your shooting technique, to see if you have any bad habits. Are you gripping too tightly? Trying to twist gun to your will, or relaxed natural aim?
Proper finger position on the trigger? Proper trigger squeeze, and yes, follow through?

Also you mention nothing of your equipment.
While there are some real quality air rifles out there, there is a lot of ummm, not so quality also.
Same goes with optics. Especially with air rifles. For some reason the "recoil impulse" is hard on scopes.
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Old February 25, 2019, 09:24 PM   #3
7.62 man
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Yes Welcome to the forum.
You are about the age that everyone's eyes start going bad. Have you had your eyes checked? Mine are bad enough now that I have to have some kind of scope because with iron sights I can't focus on the target & keep the front & rear sight sharp enough to get any use out of them.
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Old February 25, 2019, 09:25 PM   #4
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Air rifles are far from precision tools, much less the pellets or bb’s.
I wouldn’t sweat it too much.
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Old February 25, 2019, 09:57 PM   #5
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Precision air rifles ARE very accurate but $$$$. WalMart Daisy type spring actions are less $$, but also less accurate. Without furthur elaboration on your equipment and "form", you may or may not be at the accuracy of both form a d equipment.

When you do go to the range, how do you do?
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Old February 25, 2019, 10:05 PM   #6
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Air rifles are far from precision tools, much less the pellets or bb’s.
I wouldn’t sweat it too much.
"Red Ryder" and Benjamin air guns were/are toys. However, if you want to spend a few hundred dollars, the precision airguns are as accurate as the most accurate rifles. So to answer the original poster's question, no one can give you any meaningful information unless to tell us the name and model of the air gun you have been shooting.
https://www.precisionairgunsandsuppl...Rifles_s/1.htm
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Old February 25, 2019, 10:51 PM   #7
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Yeah...It's a Daisy Poweline 880...(for those of you who know what it is). But I see people on the internet going on about the sub 1 inch groups they get with it.
I haven't been shooting enough to know how well I do on the range. Busy schedule. Should I have an in person mentor for honing my shooting technique and getting rid of bad habits? Any advice you guys can give me on that part?
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Old February 25, 2019, 11:16 PM   #8
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You can bench rest it that should remove some variables.
And welcome from Texas.
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Old February 26, 2019, 12:03 AM   #9
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I have the same air rifle.
It was good for 1/2" to 3/4" groups for a short time, with one particular pellet.
But I can't do better than about 2" at 75 feet now. More often than not, it's a 3-4" group at 50 feet (or less!).

I tried cleaning it, experimenting with various other pellets (some quite expensive), checking the barrel and sights, and even testing strain on the barrel during shooting (from hand pressure on the fore-end).
Nothing made a difference.

It just isn't a high end air rifle.

Switch to .22 LR and see how you do.
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Old February 26, 2019, 07:17 AM   #10
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I got a gas piston .177 pellet rifle to use for starling control. If starlings were the size of a paper plate, this name brand pellet rifle could only hit them about 50% of the shots @ 50'.
I'm a good shot and using a rest @ 30', I went through 6-7 types of pellets and 3 different scopes w/o reaching a consistent 1" group. Nothing worked: holding the stock tighter, holding the stock loosely, gripping the fore end, letting the fore end just sit on the sandbag, loading the pellets with extreme care, closing the breech with the same movement each shot---NOTHING made it more accurate.
Everything I spent on that project was a TOTAL waste.
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Old February 26, 2019, 10:07 AM   #11
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Yeah, that was what I was hoping for. So it’s not entirely my shooting skill that’s getting in the way. I do have a .22 LR. A glenfield model 25 that I’m really excited about. I inherited it, along with a Sears bolt action shotgun, a Marlin model 60 and an Arisaka type 38. I’ve shot them all, I just need to find ammo for the Arisaka.
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Old February 26, 2019, 10:45 AM   #12
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I spent around $150 on a Hatsan pellet rifle, I can't group either for the life of me. I also know my sights are crap, and the 3-9 power scope I got with the rifle is crap. I learned my lesson with my air rifle and I'll spend more next time to get better sights up front. It is better than my old Crossman pellet rifle, so I guess there is that.

Next time I buy a pellet rifle it'll be a Dasy Avanti CO2 air rifle. They run over $450 but they do have Lothar Walther barrels, aperature sights, and run on CO2 which is cheaper than setting up for than PCP. PCP would be the best way to go but I don't live anywhere close I could get a tank charged to keep the rifle running.
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Old February 26, 2019, 11:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Yeah...It's a Daisy Poweline 880...(for those of you who know what it is). But I see people on the internet going on about the sub 1 inch groups they get with it.
While the people on this group don't embellish their groups, on the internet its rife with exaggerations.

A good control is hard to get. If you know someone who has an accurate 22, you can baseline yourself.

As noted, you want to bench rest it to start with. That removes a whole lot of variables.

A standing shot is the most difficult one of all. When I was hunting I only did a full standing shot once. All others were a brace on a tree, a kneel or over the hood.

I very likely would have hit the animal fine, but in all cases I had options and anything that reduces variables is an opportunity to eliminate a bad outcome.
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Old February 26, 2019, 11:41 AM   #14
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My Big Bro gave me his Daisy Powerline 1000, .177 cal. last summer (3-9X scope attached). Said he didn't need it anymore, and since I wanted to try out a pellet rifle, I thought the price was totally right. I haven't shot it yet, let alone monkeyed with it much. I do know this though, the trigger pull on the thing is double plum awful. Seems it has around 3" of creep before the 15 pound pull (maybe 20lbs.) Is yours that bad? Good shooting with anything starts out with a good trigger pull; makes all the difference, IMO. Not sure if a Daisy has an adjustable trigger or not. Just haven't monkeyed with mine enough to know yet.

And, practice, practice, practice. That's how you get to Carnegie Hall.
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Old February 26, 2019, 01:24 PM   #15
Don Fischer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScout View Post
Hi all. I'm new to the forum. I've been shooting for a while now. I'm a younger guy (won't say how old) but I'm in my early adult years. Because I don't get very much range time, I resort to air rifle shooting. I've been shooting for 3 years now and something just seems off.
The main issue is my groupings. With the air rifle at 25 yards standing and open sights, I can get 3 inches on a good day (a really good day). Even with a 4x scope, a good rest and taking my time. I get 1-2 inches at best. Something seems off here. I know I'm not the best shooter, but after 3 years, I thought I should be better than that shouldn't I? Please let me know.
If you have been practicing bad shooting habits for three years I'd say get help with your shooting. Very possible it's nothing more than the rifle but unless you've had help shooting along the way, I'd say fix the shooter. Your groups go from about three inch's on a good day to one to two inch's at best, that has to be you!
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Old February 26, 2019, 02:10 PM   #16
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"...resort to air rifle shooting..." Hi. So has the Olympic Movement.
"...see people on the internet going on..." Yep. The gun rag writers will tell you everything they write about is the best thing since sliced bread too.
"...not entirely my shooting skill..." Not even a little. A great deal will depend on which rifle you have(a Daisy Powerline 880 is a entry level rifle. It may not be capable of less than 3" groups.), it's sights and the ammo used. It helps a whole lot to belong to a club.
Go here. http://airgun.nra.org/
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Old February 26, 2019, 04:21 PM   #17
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Three inch groups at 25 yards, off hand, with irons, with an air rifle is better than most shooters can do.
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Old February 26, 2019, 05:39 PM   #18
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Im 19 now. started shooting at 16, Sorta late in life, relative to my peers. I'd shot a few times around the age of 9 or 10, so I had some exposure.

I bought an AR15(5.56) from my brother at age 16. So thats when the game really began for me, so to speak. My first two years I had a similar concern as yours, accuracy. I was shooting Off hand and had very basic knowledge and skills regarding technique. 1" groups at 50yrds, and I was embarrassed. I studied and, more importantly, practiced. I soon learned that my groupings were not all that terrible for the rifle platform and inexpensive ammo. I practiced and practiced, studied, asked for advice, and practiced some more.
Now I shoot the same rifle 1/4 MOA with handloads and about 1MOA Offhand with factory. I need a properly mounted scope to shoot .25" at 100yd. The best I can achieve with my reddot is .75" at 100yrd.

Similar to your concept of practicing with an Air Rifle, I shoot subsonic .22Lr at phone books in my basement at 30 feet,(wear eye protection) It's pretty well ventilated(dont breath the lead fumes) and I dont shoot more than five or so in a day. I shoot Maybe 4 days a week. This has definitely improved my skills over the past year. It was suggested by my grandfather.
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Old February 26, 2019, 11:07 PM   #19
TheScout
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Originally Posted by Don Fischer View Post
If you have been practicing bad shooting habits for three years I'd say get help with your shooting. Very possible it's nothing more than the rifle but unless you've had help shooting along the way, I'd say fix the shooter. Your groups go from about three inch's on a good day to one to two inch's at best, that has to be you!
Quote:
My Big Bro gave me his Daisy Powerline 1000, .177 cal. last summer (3-9X scope attached). Said he didn't need it anymore, and since I wanted to try out a pellet rifle, I thought the price was totally right. I haven't shot it yet, let alone monkeyed with it much. I do know this though, the trigger pull on the thing is double plum awful. Seems it has around 3" of creep before the 15 pound pull (maybe 20lbs.) Is yours that bad? Good shooting with anything starts out with a good trigger pull; makes all the difference, IMO. Not sure if a Daisy has an adjustable trigger or not. Just haven't monkeyed with mine enough to know yet.

And, practice, practice, practice. That's how you get to Carnegie Hall.
Yeah the trigger is very heavy in comparison with my .22lr and about everything else I've shot. I don't know how to exactly measure how heavy, but It's heavy. (Like my finger feels sore taking my time with the trigger for a few shots).

Good though. I'm glad it's partially the gun's fault and not just mine. I don't think I'm gonna venture into a higher quality air rifle like a GAMO or something. Not for a while at least. I'm gonna pick up a couple more boxes of .22LR (Prices are somewhat lower now!) and hit the range more. I might try to see if I can squeeze and more accuracy out of the Powerline 880, but I won't sweat it too much. As for shooting technique, I don't really have anyone nearby who is really good at shooting, who could mentor me.
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Old February 26, 2019, 11:21 PM   #20
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Just keep working...as others have said, you are not doing bad.

20 years ago, I bought a Daisey 777 air pistol...not expensive but is a very competitive air pistol. I shot that thing religiously, in my basement, for about 6 months...I learned more about shooting during those 6 months than I had learned up to that point or since. It was a great learning experience...I just wish I could shoot as well now as I could then...age has crept up on my eyes.
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Old February 26, 2019, 11:40 PM   #21
TheScout
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Even as a really young guy, my eye sight is nothing to brag about. A 1 inch circle at 25 yards even is a little bit of a chore for me. I have learned a lot about shooting through this rifle, both in shooting technique and firearm saftey and would not trade that up for anything.
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Old February 27, 2019, 09:40 AM   #22
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Hey TheScout,

I have a Ruger 10/22 I got back in the late 60's. I have to say that I've shot that .22 more than anything else I've ever owned. Thousands and thousands (and thousands) of shells through that thing. I didn't know back then that it had a really bad, squishy trigger pull. Didn't matter, I still got pretty good with it. I also had lots and lots of opportunities to shoot in those days, and I most always had that .22 with me, just like every other kid I ran with back then had their's; NEVER enough .22 shells, though. I learned to shoot with that rifle, and through the years learned about good triggers and better shooting results (and form) as time passed.

I'd say that if your trigger is anywhere near as bad as my "new" Daisy that I really haven't tried yet, and you're shooting offhand as you say, you're not too shabby. I think much of your frustration would go away shooting something with a good trigger pull. If you haven't experienced shooting anything with a proper pull, then your shooting world will change once you do (IMO). Keep shooting the Daisy if it's all you have to shoot regularly, but get out there with your two Marlin .22s whenever you can. It's a wonderful time to buy .22 shells, too...

BTW, I still have that .22, and a few years ago I installed a Volquartsen trigger kit in it, and for 35 bucks, it's a new rifle, and still amazingly accurate after all these years (and shells). And, you mentioned your Arisaka; Norma probably makes ammo for it. I got my first deer with a 7.7 back in the very early 70's. Norma made ammo for it then, and I'll bet they still do (check the site below) for yours, too.

Keep shooting; maybe try a light leather glove on that Daisy trigger. (?) Good luck!

reinert

www.norma-ammunition.com
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Old February 27, 2019, 10:35 AM   #23
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Thank you @reinert I really want more range time and will start to allocate that soon. I’ve already tried the .22 trigger a couple times (dry firing with snap caps/empty shells of course). And the trigger does feel way more comfortable and lighter than the Daisy. I can’t wait to see how I do with it. I’ve only tried it out once before at a quick session at the range.
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Old February 27, 2019, 07:23 PM   #24
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I wouldn't worry too much about how that air rifle shoots. Practicing with it, as long as you are abiding by good habits such as breath control, sight alignment, and trigger manipulation, will make a difference when you shoot your firearms.

I have had both a bb and pellet pump rifle, the bb rifle couldn't get accurate no matter what, but it could hit a soda can sized target out to probably 15 yards.

The pellet rifle was a little better and much more fun to shoot. Back when I lived at a place that had a very large yard, I had set up hanging targets to shoot at off the deck, about 20-25 yards out. I used a plastic water bottle, filled it to the top, first with airsoft bbs (airsoft sucks! haha), then cornmeal to fill out the empty spaces, followed by some water so the cornmeal would be thick. Wrapped the bottle with a few layers of duct tape and strung it from a tree. It was heavy enough to not sway with the wind, but hits from the pellet would be easy to notice as it would swing just a bit.

Then I noticed the squirrel population in the neighborhood was getting out of control. If the squirrels were within 10 yards, it was effective. Past that, and all the pellet would do is bounce off their fur. But I could still get hits on them, well past 25 yards, not quite 50 though.
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Old February 27, 2019, 08:01 PM   #25
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What is that air rifle capable of?
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