What to do if you catch car crook? - Page 3

Slateman · July 25, 2005, 11:39 PM

Actually, you may be on to something with the paintball.

They make pepper spray paintballs. You wouldn't have to even hit the guy, just near him and it goes into the air. Fire off twenty of the things.

Why not just confront the guy in the act? Go out there, armed, and tell him to leave. He points a weapon at you, its self defense, right?

**JohnKSa** · July 26, 2005, 12:26 AM

You know, the good guy doesn't always win, even when he has a gun.

I'd advise not getting into a situation that could lead to someone's death if at all possible. Especially if the death could be your own.

Tylden · July 26, 2005, 08:37 AM

I believe I'd consider a pepper spray bomb inside the car. Check out www.stopthecrime.com or the pepper spray booby trap at www.defensedevices.com. It wouldn't be that difficult to set it up to go off via a sensor when the glass was broken. Just a thought.

OBIWAN · July 26, 2005, 08:47 AM

Step 1...find a good criminal attorney...you will likely need one

If you do confront them you may get shot or killed...hope the car is worth it

If you try the pepper balls , remember that it is real cool until someone loses an eye...there you are ...abck in court

If you do "stop them"...what do you do if they just walk away...not threatening you...just walks away??

What happens if you tackle them and then hold them for the police

And then they claim they did not break into the car....that they were looking for the owners name in the glove box to let them know their car had been broken into....

Your word against theirs....and you are on trial for unlawful detainment/kidnapping

I was just walking by and this guy tackled me and tied me up

I understand the frustration......

Just don't do anything dumb

WOD · July 26, 2005, 12:49 PM

Code:

What's next, quoting Hitler? Your "friend shooting from the roof? I understand your frustration but what you are doing is illegal and it'll ironic you'll be going to jail with the guys doing all the petty crimes and doing MORE time. Oh, by the way, very religious of you watching a KKK speech and agreeing with it.

I totally despise KKK and other hate groups. I was just giving you an example of the immoral criminal mind frame. You guys wanting Cosmoline to do nothing because any kind of justice he would administer is a crime is disheartening. Basically what you all are saying is that in fear of our local law enforcement turning on us for doing the right and just thing, we must do nothing. Why do we teach our children not to steal when they see someone steal from us and we do nothing.

All I am saying is that there are times that we must fight a good fight and stand up for our rights. If we must resort to covert tactics to protect our life and our property from criminals and from prosecution from those who should be protecting us then we should adopt them. What WOD did was a service to me and to my community. Who will punish the criminals if not we who have the capability. If the law wants to prosecute us for dishing out justice, then we must make sure we leave no evidence.

tollfree969 · July 26, 2005, 01:23 PM

I agree with WOD 100%

Well said again, Abaddon (VVV)

Abaddon · July 26, 2005, 05:47 PM

New Hampshire's state motto is "live free or die". I think that this expresses a value all true Americans have - that it's better to die a free man than live under tyranny. Constant threat to your property is a form of tyranny, even if it comes from the guy next door.

Our forefathers rebelled against England at least partly in order to protect their property (no taxation without representation). They realized that if their property was not safe then they were not free and they valued freedom over life. The only difference in this situation is that instead of the government stealing property it is private citizens. I say that if it was morally justified to break the law at Lexington and Concord then it is morally justified for Cosmolinelover to break the law in his own driveway by opposing these criminals. The only issue is whether or not Cosmo feels that the risk is worth it, given the legal and physical consequences.

Everyone has to make this decision for him/herself. I wouldn't look down on Cosmo if he just put up with it until he could move away. But at the same time no one else should dissuade him if he decides that his freedom is more important than the laws that say he can't protect that freedom.

wayneinFL · July 26, 2005, 08:47 PM

Recently we had a kid who slashed tires through my mom and dad's neighborhood. Slashing old retired people's tires and stranding them at home. Funny prank, huh?

Quote:

If you do confront them you may get shot or killed...hope the car is worth it

I think the issue goes much further than just the car. If we all knuckle under to the thugs, what will our cities turn into? Do you want your kids living in a city where it's considered acceptable to break the windows out of people's cars every couple of weeks? What about shoplifters, pickpockets, vandals, burglars, drug dealers? Do you want your children raising your grandchildren in that kind of environment?

Tolerance breeds acceptance, acceptance encourages more of the same behavior.

I'd rather take my chances running off or catching some juvenile delinquent busting windows out of cars, slashing tires, or stealing crap, than to force my kids to deal with their kids in later life.

FWIW, I think it's a moot point for me. I can't see someone being arrested for tackling a vandal or burglar in my town. Most crooks have already had run-ins with the police at some point in time, so usually cops know who the bad guy really is. But I'd try the camera first.

mvpel: good link! this guy did his homework.

eka: If you don't like it, do it yourself, huh? If your phone goes out for 2 weeks are you going to quit your job and go to work for the phone company? Or are you going to tell them to get out to your house and do their job?

**JohnKSa** · July 26, 2005, 09:21 PM

I agree that we shouldn't knuckle under to thugs. I've posted before that when people simply turn the other way or move out of a bad neighborhood that the people who CAN'T move suffer. Often that's the very disadvantaged or the elderly--the very people that responsible people should try to protect.

However, I still question the wisdom of instigating potentially deadly confrontation over a minor crime. If it's a one time thing there's not much you can do. If it's a repeat offense then the camera or video camera is a great tool.

tollfree969 · July 26, 2005, 10:11 PM

Small crimes turn into big crimes. One day it's stealing, the next it's armed robbery. It has to stop somewhere in my opinion.

eka · July 27, 2005, 08:25 AM

mvpel: "Open his eyes to the depth of laziness, apathy, and corruption riddled through all levels of the department causing him to quit the force in disgust after one year, perhaps?"

cosmolinelover: "thanks Eka.. maybe I'll just quit going to college and become a cop. That'll make my life better. No need for a degree anymore, I can become part of a system run under a mayor with no regard towards public safety. Great idea. Thanks."

wayneinFL: "eka: If you don't like it, do it yourself, huh? If your phone goes out for 2 weeks are you going to quit your job and go to work for the phone company? Or are you going to tell them to get out to your house and do their job?"

You know, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to earn college degrees while working as an apathetic, lazy, and corrupt cop. I wish you had told me this before I went to all the trouble.

And Wayne, I'm not the one proposing that Cosmolinelover go out and do anything. It is he who is wanting to conduct stakeouts and catch criminals. Using your analogy, if you are going to go out and climb the telephone pole and attempt to repair the phone, then you should work for the phone company or stay the heck off the pole and let them do their job.

Cosmolinelover: The next time you start a thread, why don't you address the situation you really want to talk about? I don't think you are looking for a whole lot of information about how to protect yourself against criminals. You had your mind made up on that before you ever started this thread. What you really wanted to talk about is cops and your dislike for them. What I think you really need to do is grow up! You write: "If things were different, and the political environment allowed it, I'd be the first the say "just shoot the bastard" and end it there, whether he's armed, or not, doens't really matter, he's still commiting a bad crime and wronging me to the point that I can't afford to undo it." How ridiculous is that statement, when you are talking about individuals (probably kids) breaking car windows and stealing stereos? Personally, I would not need or want you and your loose cannon buddies out staking out my neighborhood with your John Wayne attitudes and I'm not so sure your neighbors would either.

SamD · July 27, 2005, 08:43 AM

cosmolinelover,
Park a fresh car in the driveway and sleep in it.

Confront them and attempt to ID. Take your video camera with you
If they run, then at least you have put the fear into them and maybe you get enough film for an ID.

If they offer violence, ????.

So long as you do not initiate violence, no troubles, so don't.

Call the bigmouths at KOB, they always claim to be looking for a story. Maybe that scrawny fellow with the caterpiller moustache will come out for another police idiocy session on the tube.
Tell 'em how Marty's minions aren't willing to help. He is really sensitive to bad press.

eka: remember the part of your training that said, "do not allow your personal feeling toward the principles influence your judgement in the matter at hand"

Sam

claude783 · July 27, 2005, 09:49 AM

OK, I suggested the non-lethal solution to the problem. Using a video and letting the neighbors see who is "ripping" them off.

I suppose, if I were a sick B******d, I might order up a book from Loompanics called The Poor Man's Ray Gun, by David Gunn:

He goes into details of "how to" take a microwave oven and turn it into a ray gun...quote "I have ignited a 4X8 sheet of plywood, from 500 feet away using a 5000 watt maser for only 30 seconds".

No balistics, no noise, just a well done piece of meat laying in the street!

Book can be ordered through Loompanics..

wayneinFL · July 27, 2005, 06:30 PM

Quote:

And Wayne, I'm not the one proposing that Cosmolinelover go out and do anything. It is he who is wanting to conduct stakeouts and catch criminals. Using your analogy, if you are going to go out and climb the telephone pole and attempt to repair the phone, then you should work for the phone company or stay the heck off the pole and let them do their job.

"wanting to catch criminals"? I really don't think he wants to catch criminals. I think the police won't/can't do it, and if they do, the courts let the criminals back out on the streets. I could be wrong, but I think if someone was busting windows out of cars in front of my house every couple of weeks, it would be time to do something. If the government won't fix it, the citizens have no choice but to fix it.

delta58 · July 27, 2005, 07:47 PM

Vote for Hillary so they would all have jobs and would be to busy to steal(Just kidding). Unfortunately your options are limited, you can't kill someone for stealing a stereo ( nor would you want to hopefully), if i were doing it when I was a kid all you would have to do is call my Dad and the problem would be solved.:0 That can be a tough problem, I think someone mentioned a video which I have used in the past, especially if you can get a positive ID.

Dog Confetti · July 27, 2005, 11:23 PM

eka: Try not to get all butt-hurt...

The situation is real and the question was a legitimate open-ended one, even if it doesn't have a good answer. I've had my truck broken into in his driveway too...It's not a bad neighborhood, and the city is no worse than any other, but there is a problem and we all know it...and the cops simply cannot (I did not say "don't want to") do anything about it...

WOD · July 28, 2005, 09:10 PM

Code:

The situation is real and the question was a legitimate open-ended one, even if it doesn't have a good answer. I've had my truck broken into in his driveway too...It's not a bad neighborhood, and the city is no worse than any other, but there is a problem and we all know it...and the cops simply cannot (I did not say "don't want to") do anything about it...

I have talked to many officers and they are just as frustrated as we are. If you read my earlier post you would understand why. Police officers are not the bad guys here, the problem lies in too much bureaucracy and shortage of funds due to improper allocations of state funds. The officer that responded to my back pack burglary was greatly sympathetic and said the laws in place were a joke as the guy probably will never be caught and even if he was caught, it was a $50 ticket. The officer was just as disgusted at the lawmakers. Here is another example of police frustration, when the crackhead’s house down the street caught fire, and my neighbor being a good Samaritan called the fire dept. the local cops whom we have come to know well, jokingly reprimanded my neighbor telling him that he could have done the neighborhood a great service and saved us(cops) a lot of time and trouble if he would have just let the house burn. A few months later the crackhead led the cops on a highspeed chase to his house where he shot one cop and was shot 12 times and killed by 3 other cops. This all happened 2 houses away from my house. The neighborhood has been greatly improved ever since the crackhead was gunned down.

No one is under more scrutiny than the police and they often feel even more powerless because they are supposed to be the ones with the authority to make a difference. When they come out and respond to a burglary, not only can they not only do anything proactive, they must waste their time recording the incident. The cops hands are slapped and tied until they become nothing more than uniformed records keepers and ticket masters. I do not envy the role of the modern day police officer.

Last night my 10 year old sons bike was stolen out of our fenced yard. My wife took offense when I told my son that if I see the guy that stole his bike I was going to beat the hell out of him. She asked the same rhetorical question many of you pacifist ask, “Is that bike really worth it?” I held my tongue for a second and then I told her to look at our son who was in tears in the corner of the room, I said “look at our son, we teach him not to steal but when someone steals from him we rationalize that we should do nothing. I say the only guy who deserves any kind of judgment is the crook who stole my sons bike. When I am ready to break all the fingers in the crooks right hand, I will ask him, “was this bike really worth it?” We must force the criminals to ask themselves is this really worth it? The way our system works here, why would one not want to be a criminal. The present message is that you can steal everyones gold and if you get caught by the cops you will get a ticket, oh and don’t worry about the property owners they are too afraid of the laws to do anything to stop you. Seriously guys, my point is inarguable. Right now WOD seems to have the best way to dissuade these criminals.

3 weelin geezer · July 28, 2005, 10:12 PM

Ok, then. For anyone who knows...what DO we do if someone is breaking into their car? How can they be brought to justice and made to pay with money (THIER money) for their crime? I am very interested in this because like many that is my question: What can I legally do? If I pull a gun just in case its brandishing or using unnecessary deadly force even if not shot. If I somehow just hit them to knock them out and tie them up its assault and kidnapping or unlawful detention. Or I can just watch them waltz away laughing and doing it again and I can just stand there with my thumbs up my ... and thats it. I just have to bend over and pay pay pay the insurance because of all my claims and since no one gets caught to sue (if they have money) then I am out of luck. Where can I feel safe? Why bother locking my door at night? Why bother using keys to lock my car if someone can just break the glass and take whatever they want? I do not have the clout of some 'important' figure in the comunity so I do not deserve to be left in peace? C'mon! Lets hear it from all the law experts. What are the options? What can we do besides take pictures that are too fuzzy to take to court with a positive ID? Can these people be captured and held for police while under the watchful eye of that camera to prove that this person was not 'just walking by and this biker dude kicked my ... and knocked me down because I got near his house. Its a free country I can walk wherever..'

WOD · July 29, 2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Ok, then. For anyone who knows...what DO we do if someone is breaking into their car? How can they be brought to justice and made to pay with money (THIER money) for their crime? I am very interested in this because like many that is my question: What can I legally do? If I pull a gun just in case its brandishing or using unnecessary deadly force even if not shot. If I somehow just hit them to knock them out and tie them up its assault and kidnapping or unlawful detention. Or I can just watch them waltz away laughing and doing it again and I can just stand there with my thumbs up my ... and thats it. I just have to bend over and pay pay pay the insurance because of all my claims and since no one gets caught to sue (if they have money) then I am out of luck. Where can I feel safe? Why bother locking my door at night? Why bother using keys to lock my car if someone can just break the glass and take whatever they want? I

I would really like to get a response from either a lawyer or a LEO on this. Realistically do you think there is any real deterrence to these kinds of crimes?

3 wheel geezer,
I will answer your questions from my own personal experiences.
Legally what can you do if you see someone breaking into your car? You can catch them on film and yell at them to stop. Call 911 and wait for cops so you can waste their time and your time telling them what you caught on tape and what insults you yelled at them. Then you get the cops name and number so you can get his report for you to turn into your insurance agency for your claim. You will then have to pay a $250 insurance deductible for replacement equipment that is half as nice as your custom equipment that was stolen because you failed to keep receipts for stuff you bought 2 years ago. Three months later your insurance goes up because you are now an insurance liability so in three years you end up actually paying for the mediocre equipment anyway due to your higher premiums.

From your video, if the overworked cops even have time to view it, they will recognize the guy as they have booked him many times for burglary and assault. They give him a $50 ticket and show him the tape and tell him he better pay or they will give him jail time. Since this is Oregon and there is not enough funds, the thief already knows he will never receive jail time as Oregon no longer locks up criminals who steal or beat up other people. He is a free loader so he cares little about credit history and thus uses the ticket for toilet paper. He goes home to Billy Bobs or Grandma Janes basement and plans his next heist.

Why bother locking your car doors? Well so that the crook will steal from your buddy Steve next door of course. Its all about putting it to the next guy.

Can you bonk them on the head and tie them up? Maybe, but its your word against theirs. Also if this guy is a violent guy, are you going to feel safe that while you are away on your 9 to 5 job making an honest living for your family? This guy having nothing better to do, might seek retribution and mess with your property even more. I have had mysterious shapes vandalize my shop in the twilight hours shortly after face to face confrontations. We cant wait around all day personally protecting our property.

WOD believes that for the present political situation, the only thing we can do is strike back in stealth. Let them know their are people watching and that at any time from any place these watchers will strike out from the shadows from any direction. "Who shot me in the *ss, was it the owner of the car I was trying to steal, the neighbor, the guy down the street, who?" This is how deterrence will happen.

wayneinFL · July 30, 2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Using your analogy, if you are going to go out and climb the telephone pole and attempt to repair the phone, then you should work for the phone company or stay the heck off the pole and let them do their job.

I just remembered- my dad actually did this when I was a kid. Dad called the phone company numerous times then after a couple of weeks (mom said it was really only 10 days) called to tell them he would break in and fix it himself. He rammed the doors to the local switching office, and couldn't get in. When security and sheriff's dept. showed up, they opened the building and had someone fix it. Dad paid for the door and wasn't arrested. Town was back in service.

mvpel · July 31, 2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Since this is Oregon and there is not enough funds, the thief already knows he will never receive jail time as Oregon no longer locks up criminals who steal or beat up other people.

Too many pot smokers locked up instead?

mantis7 · July 31, 2005, 09:46 PM

maybe we should start thinking of our police in terms of resources. Do we really want them busting pot smoking hippies, and 5-dollar whores when they could be stopping people from taking your property? Its your choice people.

WOD · August 2, 2005, 10:10 PM

Quote:

maybe we should start thinking of our police in terms of resources. Do we really want them busting pot smoking hippies, and 5-dollar whores when they could be stopping people from taking your property? Its your choice people.

Do you really think its the peoples choice? It is not even the LEO's choice. Like I have pointed out numerous times in this post. LEOs are just as frustrated as we are. I challenge any LEO to tell me otherwise. The lawmakers make the decision on the priority and the punishment, not us or the LEOs.

Theft seems to be a problem derived from a society full of pacifist. Just the other day I told a customer to bring his bike in the shop as I did not have bike racks. The guy just said, "oh I'm not worried about it, if someone steals my bike they must need it more than I did." I dont know about you guys, but if someone even thinks of stealing my bike, he will not have me wishing him a happy and prosperous life.

WOD · August 3, 2005, 09:52 PM

Just yesterday on the 10'Oclock News, a fellow Oregonian catches a crook red handed stealing his stereo and belongings out of his brand new Dodge pickup. The owner was big enough to beat the tar out of most average sized guys, but instead of beating the tar out of this guy and breaking the thieves fingers he nicely said, "Hey, that is my stuff you are taking, put them back" The thief seeing that this big guy is a pacifist, tells the owner of the truck that he is disoriented and does not know what he is doing. On top of this disoriented bull, the thief tells the big guy he needs some coffee to clear his head, so what does the big guy do. He actually goes in and makes the thief a cup of coffee before calling 911. After they chit chat and have coffee or whatever the cops finally take the thief in and just as I have stated on this thread the thief is taken to the county courthouse and then set free within hours. Minutes later he was arrested again for trying to break into a car at the courthouse.

This whole situation just thumbs its nose at us law abiding citizens and wastes the time of money of the LEO's who must respond to it.

I think a few hard kicks to the ribs and a few broken fingers in his right hand might have kept him off the crime a little longer. W.O.D. suggests a good dose of arsenic in the coffee.

Randy in Arizona · August 4, 2005, 10:50 PM

As an EX-resident of Lovely Albuquerque, I know what you are unhappy about!

Take a good long look at the judges and the revolving door 'catch and release' program that currently slightly hampers the crooks activities. Do a lot of research and document the worst offenders among the judges. Publicize the lousy job they are doing and un-elect them.

Kick them out of office and elect harsher judges. If there is not enough room for the hoods, borrow a few pages from the much hated sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona. Put the little darlings in tents wearing pink underwear and feasting on baloney sandwiches.

As long as it is easier for the worthless ba$tard$ to steal for a living, and crime has no real consequences for them, they will not change. They have to be taught that bad behavior on their part causes bad things to happen to them!

The only things I miss, no longer living in Albert's Turkey, are the Balloon Fiesta and New Mexican style cooking. The cooks in Tucson think Serrano chilies are 'Green Chili' :barf:

Vaya Con Dios, my internet friends - I wish you the best!

July 26, 2005, 12:26 AM	#52
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,986	You know, the good guy doesn't always win, even when he has a gun. I'd advise not getting into a situation that could lead to someone's death if at all possible. Especially if the death could be your own. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

July 26, 2005, 12:49 PM	#55
WOD Member Join Date: June 1, 2005 Posts: 64	Code: What's next, quoting Hitler? Your "friend shooting from the roof? I understand your frustration but what you are doing is illegal and it'll ironic you'll be going to jail with the guys doing all the petty crimes and doing MORE time. Oh, by the way, very religious of you watching a KKK speech and agreeing with it. I totally despise KKK and other hate groups. I was just giving you an example of the immoral criminal mind frame. You guys wanting Cosmoline to do nothing because any kind of justice he would administer is a crime is disheartening. Basically what you all are saying is that in fear of our local law enforcement turning on us for doing the right and just thing, we must do nothing. Why do we teach our children not to steal when they see someone steal from us and we do nothing. All I am saying is that there are times that we must fight a good fight and stand up for our rights. If we must resort to covert tactics to protect our life and our property from criminals and from prosecution from those who should be protecting us then we should adopt them. What WOD did was a service to me and to my community. Who will punish the criminals if not we who have the capability. If the law wants to prosecute us for dishing out justice, then we must make sure we leave no evidence.

July 26, 2005, 01:23 PM	#56
tollfree969 Member Join Date: April 13, 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 69	Well Said I agree with WOD 100% Well said again, Abaddon (VVV) __________________ Matt (\__/) (='.'=)This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into (")_(")your signature to help him gain world domination. Last edited by tollfree969; July 26, 2005 at 06:38 PM.

July 26, 2005, 05:47 PM	#57
Abaddon Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Washington State, USA Posts: 37	New Hampshire's state motto is "live free or die". I think that this expresses a value all true Americans have - that it's better to die a free man than live under tyranny. Constant threat to your property is a form of tyranny, even if it comes from the guy next door. Our forefathers rebelled against England at least partly in order to protect their property (no taxation without representation). They realized that if their property was not safe then they were not free and they valued freedom over life. The only difference in this situation is that instead of the government stealing property it is private citizens. I say that if it was morally justified to break the law at Lexington and Concord then it is morally justified for Cosmolinelover to break the law in his own driveway by opposing these criminals. The only issue is whether or not Cosmo feels that the risk is worth it, given the legal and physical consequences. Everyone has to make this decision for him/herself. I wouldn't look down on Cosmo if he just put up with it until he could move away. But at the same time no one else should dissuade him if he decides that his freedom is more important than the laws that say he can't protect that freedom. __________________ Septum Contra Thebes - to be and not to seem good

July 26, 2005, 09:21 PM	#59
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,986	I agree that we shouldn't knuckle under to thugs. I've posted before that when people simply turn the other way or move out of a bad neighborhood that the people who CAN'T move suffer. Often that's the very disadvantaged or the elderly--the very people that responsible people should try to protect. However, I still question the wisdom of instigating potentially deadly confrontation over a minor crime. If it's a one time thing there's not much you can do. If it's a repeat offense then the camera or video camera is a great tool. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

July 25, 2005, 11:39 PM	#51
Slateman Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 323	Actually, you may be on to something with the paintball. They make pepper spray paintballs. You wouldn't have to even hit the guy, just near him and it goes into the air. Fire off twenty of the things. Why not just confront the guy in the act? Go out there, armed, and tell him to leave. He points a weapon at you, its self defense, right?

July 26, 2005, 08:37 AM	#53
Tylden Member Join Date: July 25, 2005 Posts: 57	I believe I'd consider a pepper spray bomb inside the car. Check out www.stopthecrime.com or the pepper spray booby trap at www.defensedevices.com. It wouldn't be that difficult to set it up to go off via a sensor when the glass was broken. Just a thought.

July 26, 2005, 08:47 AM	#54
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	Step 1...find a good criminal attorney...you will likely need one If you do confront them you may get shot or killed...hope the car is worth it If you try the pepper balls , remember that it is real cool until someone loses an eye...there you are ...abck in court If you do "stop them"...what do you do if they just walk away...not threatening you...just walks away?? What happens if you tackle them and then hold them for the police And then they claim they did not break into the car....that they were looking for the owners name in the glove box to let them know their car had been broken into.... Your word against theirs....and you are on trial for unlawful detainment/kidnapping I was just walking by and this guy tackled me and tied me up I understand the frustration...... Just don't do anything dumb

July 26, 2005, 10:11 PM	#60
tollfree969 Member Join Date: April 13, 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 69	Small crimes turn into big crimes. One day it's stealing, the next it's armed robbery. It has to stop somewhere in my opinion. __________________ Matt (\__/) (='.'=)This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into (")_(")your signature to help him gain world domination.

July 27, 2005, 08:25 AM	#61
eka Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2004 Posts: 235	mvpel: "Open his eyes to the depth of laziness, apathy, and corruption riddled through all levels of the department causing him to quit the force in disgust after one year, perhaps?" cosmolinelover: "thanks Eka.. maybe I'll just quit going to college and become a cop. That'll make my life better. No need for a degree anymore, I can become part of a system run under a mayor with no regard towards public safety. Great idea. Thanks." wayneinFL: "eka: If you don't like it, do it yourself, huh? If your phone goes out for 2 weeks are you going to quit your job and go to work for the phone company? Or are you going to tell them to get out to your house and do their job?" You know, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to earn college degrees while working as an apathetic, lazy, and corrupt cop. I wish you had told me this before I went to all the trouble. And Wayne, I'm not the one proposing that Cosmolinelover go out and do anything. It is he who is wanting to conduct stakeouts and catch criminals. Using your analogy, if you are going to go out and climb the telephone pole and attempt to repair the phone, then you should work for the phone company or stay the heck off the pole and let them do their job. Cosmolinelover: The next time you start a thread, why don't you address the situation you really want to talk about? I don't think you are looking for a whole lot of information about how to protect yourself against criminals. You had your mind made up on that before you ever started this thread. What you really wanted to talk about is cops and your dislike for them. What I think you really need to do is grow up! You write: "If things were different, and the political environment allowed it, I'd be the first the say "just shoot the bastard" and end it there, whether he's armed, or not, doens't really matter, he's still commiting a bad crime and wronging me to the point that I can't afford to undo it." How ridiculous is that statement, when you are talking about individuals (probably kids) breaking car windows and stealing stereos? Personally, I would not need or want you and your loose cannon buddies out staking out my neighborhood with your John Wayne attitudes and I'm not so sure your neighbors would either. __________________ EKA Sic Semper Tyrannis Last edited by eka; July 27, 2005 at 11:20 AM.

July 27, 2005, 08:43 AM	#62
SamD Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: Nueva Mexico Posts: 166	cosmolinelover, Park a fresh car in the driveway and sleep in it. Confront them and attempt to ID. Take your video camera with you If they run, then at least you have put the fear into them and maybe you get enough film for an ID. If they offer violence, ????. So long as you do not initiate violence, no troubles, so don't. Call the bigmouths at KOB, they always claim to be looking for a story. Maybe that scrawny fellow with the caterpiller moustache will come out for another police idiocy session on the tube. Tell 'em how Marty's minions aren't willing to help. He is really sensitive to bad press. eka: remember the part of your training that said, "do not allow your personal feeling toward the principles influence your judgement in the matter at hand" Sam __________________ "It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards"

July 27, 2005, 09:49 AM	#63
claude783 Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: people's republic of California Posts: 386	OK, I suggested the non-lethal solution to the problem. Using a video and letting the neighbors see who is "ripping" them off. I suppose, if I were a sick B******d, I might order up a book from Loompanics called The Poor Man's Ray Gun, by David Gunn: He goes into details of "how to" take a microwave oven and turn it into a ray gun...quote "I have ignited a 4X8 sheet of plywood, from 500 feet away using a 5000 watt maser for only 30 seconds". No balistics, no noise, just a well done piece of meat laying in the street! Book can be ordered through Loompanics..

July 27, 2005, 07:47 PM	#65
delta58 Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2005 Location: Florida panhandle Posts: 128	Vote for Hillary so they would all have jobs and would be to busy to steal(Just kidding). Unfortunately your options are limited, you can't kill someone for stealing a stereo ( nor would you want to hopefully), if i were doing it when I was a kid all you would have to do is call my Dad and the problem would be solved.:0 That can be a tough problem, I think someone mentioned a video which I have used in the past, especially if you can get a positive ID. __________________ Doug Helms <>< "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." Ben Franklin.

July 27, 2005, 11:23 PM	#66
Dog Confetti Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 212	eka: Try not to get all butt-hurt... The situation is real and the question was a legitimate open-ended one, even if it doesn't have a good answer. I've had my truck broken into in his driveway too...It's not a bad neighborhood, and the city is no worse than any other, but there is a problem and we all know it...and the cops simply cannot (I did not say "don't want to") do anything about it...

July 28, 2005, 09:10 PM	#67
WOD Member Join Date: June 1, 2005 Posts: 64	Code: The situation is real and the question was a legitimate open-ended one, even if it doesn't have a good answer. I've had my truck broken into in his driveway too...It's not a bad neighborhood, and the city is no worse than any other, but there is a problem and we all know it...and the cops simply cannot (I did not say "don't want to") do anything about it... I have talked to many officers and they are just as frustrated as we are. If you read my earlier post you would understand why. Police officers are not the bad guys here, the problem lies in too much bureaucracy and shortage of funds due to improper allocations of state funds. The officer that responded to my back pack burglary was greatly sympathetic and said the laws in place were a joke as the guy probably will never be caught and even if he was caught, it was a $50 ticket. The officer was just as disgusted at the lawmakers. Here is another example of police frustration, when the crackhead’s house down the street caught fire, and my neighbor being a good Samaritan called the fire dept. the local cops whom we have come to know well, jokingly reprimanded my neighbor telling him that he could have done the neighborhood a great service and saved us(cops) a lot of time and trouble if he would have just let the house burn. A few months later the crackhead led the cops on a highspeed chase to his house where he shot one cop and was shot 12 times and killed by 3 other cops. This all happened 2 houses away from my house. The neighborhood has been greatly improved ever since the crackhead was gunned down. No one is under more scrutiny than the police and they often feel even more powerless because they are supposed to be the ones with the authority to make a difference. When they come out and respond to a burglary, not only can they not only do anything proactive, they must waste their time recording the incident. The cops hands are slapped and tied until they become nothing more than uniformed records keepers and ticket masters. I do not envy the role of the modern day police officer. Last night my 10 year old sons bike was stolen out of our fenced yard. My wife took offense when I told my son that if I see the guy that stole his bike I was going to beat the hell out of him. She asked the same rhetorical question many of you pacifist ask, “Is that bike really worth it?” I held my tongue for a second and then I told her to look at our son who was in tears in the corner of the room, I said “look at our son, we teach him not to steal but when someone steals from him we rationalize that we should do nothing. I say the only guy who deserves any kind of judgment is the crook who stole my sons bike. When I am ready to break all the fingers in the crooks right hand, I will ask him, “was this bike really worth it?” We must force the criminals to ask themselves is this really worth it? The way our system works here, why would one not want to be a criminal. The present message is that you can steal everyones gold and if you get caught by the cops you will get a ticket, oh and don’t worry about the property owners they are too afraid of the laws to do anything to stop you. Seriously guys, my point is inarguable. Right now WOD seems to have the best way to dissuade these criminals.

July 28, 2005, 10:12 PM	#68
3 weelin geezer Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2004 Posts: 438	Ok, then. For anyone who knows...what DO we do if someone is breaking into their car? How can they be brought to justice and made to pay with money (THIER money) for their crime? I am very interested in this because like many that is my question: What can I legally do? If I pull a gun just in case its brandishing or using unnecessary deadly force even if not shot. If I somehow just hit them to knock them out and tie them up its assault and kidnapping or unlawful detention. Or I can just watch them waltz away laughing and doing it again and I can just stand there with my thumbs up my ... and thats it. I just have to bend over and pay pay pay the insurance because of all my claims and since no one gets caught to sue (if they have money) then I am out of luck. Where can I feel safe? Why bother locking my door at night? Why bother using keys to lock my car if someone can just break the glass and take whatever they want? I do not have the clout of some 'important' figure in the comunity so I do not deserve to be left in peace? C'mon! Lets hear it from all the law experts. What are the options? What can we do besides take pictures that are too fuzzy to take to court with a positive ID? Can these people be captured and held for police while under the watchful eye of that camera to prove that this person was not 'just walking by and this biker dude kicked my ... and knocked me down because I got near his house. Its a free country I can walk wherever..' Last edited by 3 weelin geezer; July 29, 2005 at 11:06 PM.

July 31, 2005, 09:46 PM	#72
mantis7 Member Join Date: July 29, 2005 Posts: 21	amen maybe we should start thinking of our police in terms of resources. Do we really want them busting pot smoking hippies, and 5-dollar whores when they could be stopping people from taking your property? Its your choice people.

August 3, 2005, 09:52 PM	#74
WOD Member Join Date: June 1, 2005 Posts: 64	Case in point Just yesterday on the 10'Oclock News, a fellow Oregonian catches a crook red handed stealing his stereo and belongings out of his brand new Dodge pickup. The owner was big enough to beat the tar out of most average sized guys, but instead of beating the tar out of this guy and breaking the thieves fingers he nicely said, "Hey, that is my stuff you are taking, put them back" The thief seeing that this big guy is a pacifist, tells the owner of the truck that he is disoriented and does not know what he is doing. On top of this disoriented bull, the thief tells the big guy he needs some coffee to clear his head, so what does the big guy do. He actually goes in and makes the thief a cup of coffee before calling 911. After they chit chat and have coffee or whatever the cops finally take the thief in and just as I have stated on this thread the thief is taken to the county courthouse and then set free within hours. Minutes later he was arrested again for trying to break into a car at the courthouse. This whole situation just thumbs its nose at us law abiding citizens and wastes the time of money of the LEO's who must respond to it. I think a few hard kicks to the ribs and a few broken fingers in his right hand might have kept him off the crime a little longer. W.O.D. suggests a good dose of arsenic in the coffee.

August 4, 2005, 10:50 PM	#75
Randy in Arizona Member Join Date: April 22, 2005 Location: East of The Democratic People's Repuplic of Tucson. Posts: 58	As an EX-resident of Lovely Albuquerque, I know what you are unhappy about! Take a good long look at the judges and the revolving door 'catch and release' program that currently slightly hampers the crooks activities. Do a lot of research and document the worst offenders among the judges. Publicize the lousy job they are doing and un-elect them. Kick them out of office and elect harsher judges. If there is not enough room for the hoods, borrow a few pages from the much hated sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona. Put the little darlings in tents wearing pink underwear and feasting on baloney sandwiches. As long as it is easier for the worthless ba$tard$ to steal for a living, and crime has no real consequences for them, they will not change. They have to be taught that bad behavior on their part causes bad things to happen to them! The only things I miss, no longer living in Albert's Turkey, are the Balloon Fiesta and New Mexican style cooking. The cooks in Tucson think Serrano chilies are 'Green Chili' :barf: Vaya Con Dios, my internet friends - I wish you the best!