What is the process to buy/own a SBR?

RaizdByWolvz · September 26, 2015, 12:15 PM

So I know you've got to pay a fed tax stamp $200...the whole process is just confusing to me, say I want to buy a complete 10 inch AR from a store online, do I order the gun 1st then have it shipped to my FFL, then do the fed form for SBR? If y'all could please explain I'd really appreciate it.

OcSpeed · September 26, 2015, 12:31 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRbsltM3jyU Here's how I did it, it's now awaiting approval and it's current form is an AR pistol. This takes anywhere from 1 month to 3 or 4. Bought the lower, assembled that my self, bought the upper, waiting to put a rifle buffer and stock.
Your other options are yes, order it online, find a local class 3 dealer to have it shipped to, do the traditional paper, paperwork and wait like 8 months.

RaizdByWolvz · September 26, 2015, 12:47 PM

What exactly do they do different causing this 8 month wait period? Different kind of background check? If I own an AR-15, I have my concealed carry permit out of my home state VA, will I be able to own an SBR?

OcSpeed · September 26, 2015, 12:59 PM

I don't know the rules in your state, but most likely.
As far as I understand, the difference is using a computer vs not. There is no different background etc.
It can help to move faster in either case to do it using a Trust.

Bartholomew Roberts · September 29, 2015, 08:15 AM

Assuming no special state laws are involved, if you order online, the the SBR has to be transferred from one Type 07 FFL to a local Type 07 FFL on a Form 3. The Form 3 alone took almost 3 months the last time I did that, though I think times are much faster now. Since then, I don't order NFA stuff from out of state anymore unless I really want it and there are no other options.

When the SBR arrives, you'll go to your FFL and pay them for the transfer fees and fill out a Form 4. You send the Form 4 and $200 to the ATF and wait. Most of the wait time is because there are X many examiners and 50,000 forms. When they finally get to yours, they'll look at the paperwork - it isn't uncommon for paperwork to get sent back due to minor errors in filling it out or random examiner whimsy at this point. If the paperwork is OK, they'll mail you the stamp and you can then go to the FFL and take possession of your SBR.

A trust can make this process simpler in some ways since it reduces the amount of initial paperwork; but lately has been leading to a longer wait time because ATF examiners aren't lawyers and they aren't always great at reviewing trusts.

Sharkbite · September 29, 2015, 09:54 AM

The easiest and FASTEST way to do what you want is to build your own SBR on a trust.

Step 1. Establish a trust. There are online resources like 199trust.com that can help you for a small fee ( $99 iIIRC) or you can contact a lawyer (thats what i did) to draft the trust docs. I understand Quicken Will maker has a trust portion as well, but i have no experience with that route.

Step 2. Buy an AR PISTOL in whatever barrel length you want the SBR to be.

Step 3. Fill out ONLINE via ATF's Eforms site, a Form 1. That is the application to make an SBR You will also use a CC to pay the $200 tax on that site.

Step 4. This is the hard part....wait and wait and wait, you get the picture. The good news (and this is why you bought the PISTOL... You can shoot snd enjoy the pistol version while you wait for BATF to get you your stamp

Step 5. At some point in the waiting game you will need to have your Trust name, city and state engraved on the gun. Lots of companies offer this service now and do it to BATF specs.

Step 6. Upon receiving the email saying your stamp is approved it will include a PDF of the approved Form 1 and a canceled tax stamp will have been affixed. Just print a copy and attach the stock of your choice to that Pistol....good to go!!

Theohazard · September 29, 2015, 11:02 AM

The OP doesn't list what state he's in, so the only advice we can give him is pertaining to federal law. But his state might add in extra difficulties. For example: Here in WA you can buy an SBR on a Form 4, but you can't make one yourself on a Form 1.

dogtown tom · September 29, 2015, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Bartholomew Roberts ........the SBR has to be transferred from one Type 07 FFL to a local Type 07 FFL on a Form 3....

Any FFL holder other than 03 Collector & 06 Manufacturer of Ammunition can pay SOT and deal in NFA firearms.
Class 1 SOT status- importer of NFA firearms, requires an importer FFL, either Type 8 or 11.
Class 2 SOT status- manufacturer & dealer of NFA firearms, requires a manufacturer FFL, either Type 7 or 10.
Class 3 SOT status- dealer of NFA firearms, requires a dealer or manufacturer FFL, either Type 1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 10, or 11.

Sharkbite · September 29, 2015, 06:17 PM

Quote:

For example: Here in WA you can buy an SBR on a Form 4, but you can't make one yourself on a Form 1.

Oh SNAP.... That SUCKS.

Theohazard · September 30, 2015, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkbite

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theohazard

For example: Here in WA you can buy an SBR on a Form 4, but you can't make one yourself on a Form 1.

Oh SNAP.... That SUCKS.

Yeah it does. But at least they're partially legal now. SBRs were illegal in this state for a few decades, then a law was passed legalizing them last year. Unfortunately the law was poorly written, and it seemed to indicate that SBRs couldn't be manufactured in the state, either on a Form 1 by an individual or on a Form 2 by a Class 2 SOT. The state Department of Licensing has vacillated back and forth on the issue, and for awhile they even decided they didn't want to try to interpret the law. So the ATF was left alone to interpret the law, and they interpreted it in our favor and approved Form 1s for a while. But recently the DoL changed its mind and told the ATF that Form 1s are illegal. So currently the ATF is rejecting all SBR Form 1s in our state.

At the moment, the only way for an individual to get an SBR is to buy one on a Form 4. If someone wants to SBR their own pistol or rifle, they can take it to a Class 2 SOT and that SOT can build it for them on a Form 2 and then transfer it back to them on a Form 4. The current interpretation of the law seems to be that an individual can't make an SBR on a Form 1, but a Class 2 SOT can make an SBR for sale to the general public as long as that SOT is also in the business of selling to law enforcement agencies. Stupid, huh?

Sharkbite · September 30, 2015, 09:52 AM

Theo

Man that is DUMB.

So instead of doing it yourself, you have to pay a Company to push out 2 pins, swap uppers (AR) and push in those pins AND wait a super long time for a form 2 and 4 to be approved.

Holy smokes!!!!

Bill DeShivs · September 30, 2015, 10:10 PM

I used 199trust.com tonight for my trust.
Building a short barreled shotgun.
The trusts are now $59! My time just to get the CLEO signature is worth more than that!

September 26, 2015, 12:15 PM	#1
RaizdByWolvz Junior member Join Date: September 23, 2015 Posts: 34	What is the process to buy/own a SBR? So I know you've got to pay a fed tax stamp $200...the whole process is just confusing to me, say I want to buy a complete 10 inch AR from a store online, do I order the gun 1st then have it shipped to my FFL, then do the fed form for SBR? If y'all could please explain I'd really appreciate it.

September 29, 2015, 11:02 AM	#7
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	The OP doesn't list what state he's in, so the only advice we can give him is pertaining to federal law. But his state might add in extra difficulties. For example: Here in WA you can buy an SBR on a Form 4, but you can't make one yourself on a Form 1. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

September 30, 2015, 10:10 PM	#12
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	I used 199trust.com tonight for my trust. Building a short barreled shotgun. The trusts are now $59! My time just to get the CLEO signature is worth more than that! __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 26, 2015, 12:31 PM	#2
OcSpeed Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: the greater unknown Posts: 123	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRbsltM3jyU Here's how I did it, it's now awaiting approval and it's current form is an AR pistol. This takes anywhere from 1 month to 3 or 4. Bought the lower, assembled that my self, bought the upper, waiting to put a rifle buffer and stock. Your other options are yes, order it online, find a local class 3 dealer to have it shipped to, do the traditional paper, paperwork and wait like 8 months.

September 26, 2015, 12:47 PM	#3
RaizdByWolvz Junior member Join Date: September 23, 2015 Posts: 34	What exactly do they do different causing this 8 month wait period? Different kind of background check? If I own an AR-15, I have my concealed carry permit out of my home state VA, will I be able to own an SBR?

September 26, 2015, 12:59 PM	#4
OcSpeed Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: the greater unknown Posts: 123	I don't know the rules in your state, but most likely. As far as I understand, the difference is using a computer vs not. There is no different background etc. It can help to move faster in either case to do it using a Trust.

September 29, 2015, 08:15 AM	#5
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Assuming no special state laws are involved, if you order online, the the SBR has to be transferred from one Type 07 FFL to a local Type 07 FFL on a Form 3. The Form 3 alone took almost 3 months the last time I did that, though I think times are much faster now. Since then, I don't order NFA stuff from out of state anymore unless I really want it and there are no other options. When the SBR arrives, you'll go to your FFL and pay them for the transfer fees and fill out a Form 4. You send the Form 4 and $200 to the ATF and wait. Most of the wait time is because there are X many examiners and 50,000 forms. When they finally get to yours, they'll look at the paperwork - it isn't uncommon for paperwork to get sent back due to minor errors in filling it out or random examiner whimsy at this point. If the paperwork is OK, they'll mail you the stamp and you can then go to the FFL and take possession of your SBR. A trust can make this process simpler in some ways since it reduces the amount of initial paperwork; but lately has been leading to a longer wait time because ATF examiners aren't lawyers and they aren't always great at reviewing trusts.

September 29, 2015, 09:54 AM	#6
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	The easiest and FASTEST way to do what you want is to build your own SBR on a trust. Step 1. Establish a trust. There are online resources like 199trust.com that can help you for a small fee ( $99 iIIRC) or you can contact a lawyer (thats what i did) to draft the trust docs. I understand Quicken Will maker has a trust portion as well, but i have no experience with that route. Step 2. Buy an AR PISTOL in whatever barrel length you want the SBR to be. Step 3. Fill out ONLINE via ATF's Eforms site, a Form 1. That is the application to make an SBR You will also use a CC to pay the $200 tax on that site. Step 4. This is the hard part....wait and wait and wait, you get the picture. The good news (and this is why you bought the PISTOL... You can shoot snd enjoy the pistol version while you wait for BATF to get you your stamp Step 5. At some point in the waiting game you will need to have your Trust name, city and state engraved on the gun. Lots of companies offer this service now and do it to BATF specs. Step 6. Upon receiving the email saying your stamp is approved it will include a PDF of the approved Form 1 and a canceled tax stamp will have been affixed. Just print a copy and attach the stock of your choice to that Pistol....good to go!!

September 30, 2015, 09:52 AM	#11
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	Theo Man that is DUMB. So instead of doing it yourself, you have to pay a Company to push out 2 pins, swap uppers (AR) and push in those pins AND wait a super long time for a form 2 and 4 to be approved. Holy smokes!!!!