Experiments with the .30-30

[taylorce1]

Yes the "X" is POA.

[Doug Lee]

Taylorce1,
Thanks for the quick response.
Good to know!
Doug Lee
*

[bamaranger]

Quite a few years back I wanted a 788 in .30-30. My thought was to experiment with the various light for caliber pointed .30 cal bullets available. I particularly remember Speer made a variety of 110-130 grain pointed bullets that seemed interesting. There was also a half jacket Plinker in 100 grains (maybe 110) that was really cheap.

I never got the 788. But I did buy a large lot of old reloading supplies from a widow lady that included several hundred of those light, .30 cal Speer bullets in assorted styles. By that time, I had acquired a bolt rifle in 7.62x39mm and shot most of them up in that rifle. Accuracy with the bolt rifle at 100 yds was still in the 1.5-2.0 MOA range, despite the bore dia issue (.308 v. .310). I also shot the Speer SSP (single shot pistol) .308/135 gr bullet in that rifle and wish they still made it.

All that shooting really sold me on the utility of a moderate .30 cal rifle in the armory. Easy on shoulder and ears, ample power for deer sized game , and suitable accuracy/trajectory for practice to 200 yds or so. While my experiments were with the x39mm cartridge, the .30-30 is simply more of the same. I live quite close to a public range and scavenge brass there quite a bit. Before the advent of the poly stocked full power bolt rifles in '06 and .270 the most common brass I would recover was surprisingly............ .30-30. There were a LOT of Marlin rifles still going hunting in north Alabama at that time. The Marlin scoped easier than the early Win '94 and Win was on it's last legs anyhow. The Marlin was still sold, relatively affordably, at Wally World and priced lower than the walnut and blue steel bolt rifles offered at the time. I would give my 30-30 pickup brass to a pal who had a T/C pistol so chambered.

[deadcoyote]

I had a Steven’s 325 in .30-30 that was an amazing shooter outside of some vertical stringing. Fortunately it was very predictable and performed the same way all the time. Really wish I hadn’t sold that rifle.

[bamaranger]

The more I think about it, NOT a 788 but a Savage 340.

[stagpanther]

It's unAmerican to not have a 30-30 lever gun IMO.

[taylorce1]

There is nothing to report yet. I tried some H335 and 125gr NBT, and IMR 3031 with 130 gr SP. The results weren't repeatable with H335, and the velocites were extremely slow with 3031.



Here is the ladder I ran with H335, .38.3 grains is .3 grains over Lee's published max load. I decided to try the 36.3 gr load, and couldn't get 2400 fps the next outing. I tried loading them only using the Lee collet die, and don't know if I was having neck tension issues.

So I ran them through a FL die, neck sizing only with decapping rod removed. I expanded the necks with the .305 Lee mandrel. This is how I resized the necks while waiting for my collet die to arrive. However, I also used an Lee crimp die this time to add .0005 of crimp. I just haven't had time to shoot again.

[44 AMP]

the velocites were extremely slow with 3031.

define "slow" please

[Drm50]

I’ve done quite a bit of fooling with the 30/30 cartridge. I’ve got everything from 100gr
Plinkers up to 150gr. My favorite for accuracy is the Speer 130gr HP. Excellent groups from
Savage 219, 340 and 99 rifles as well as Win & Marlin lever actions ( single loaded ). The 788 came out high on list as did Savage 219. Several H&R and NEF rifles were at bottom.
I can blame most of their shortcomings on the triggers, not much to be done with them.
I don’t have a 788 at present but it was only one out of the group that shot the 100gr plinkers decently. I also tried a 77gr cast for 32auto and had no luck with it at any velocity.

[ammo.crafter]

Have you given any thought of getting a barrel for your 788?

If that's a consideration, think 7x30 Waters. The round is based on the 30-30 round and sized the neck to 7mm.

Great deer round and exquisitely accurate. BTW, recoil is nearly mild.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

define "slow" please

Not what I was hoping for, max load from Hornady was 32.9 grains for a pistol. It showed 1950 fps in the pistol, and I barely broke 2100 fps with a 22" barrel.

Originally Posted by ammo.crafter

think 7x30 Waters

I've thought about rebarreling, but it'll stay a .30-30. I'd just use a faster twist so I could try some heavy bullets 190± grains. I'd also have it threaded to use my suppressor.

[44 AMP]

Things just aren't what they once were it seems....

I have data showing 32.5gr of IMR 3031 pushing a 150gr bullet to 2300fpr from a 20" Win 94. In 1980...

[Team17]

Good looking rifle!

[jmr40]

I have data showing 32.5gr of IMR 3031 pushing a 150gr bullet to 2300fpr from a 20" Win 94. In 1980...

Loading data and what you get in the real world can be worlds apart. I've shot some 30-30 factory and handloads over a chronograph and from 20" Marlin and Winchester barrels speeds were significantly slower.

Don't take this the wrong way. It's your time, money, powder, primers, and bullets. If what you're doing makes you happy then I'm truly happy for you. And yes, I've done similar things in the past.

But you're about the 973rd person who's tried to do this in the last 100 years. The 30-30 is what it is. A good cartridge that's at it's best as a 200 yard and under big game cartridge.

Pointed bullets at the same muzzle velocity as RN bullets in a 30-30 don't significantly change trajectory. Pointed bullets will mean faster impact velocities at longer ranges and that's something. But as a big game cartridge it's still pushing things past 200 yards and closer to 100 is better.

You've spent a lot of time and burned a lot of powder trying to get a 125 gr bullet to 2600 fps with good accuracy. It's no trick to get a 180 gr bullet to 2600 fps with MOA accuracy from most any 308. 150's to 2800-2900 fps. With the cost of powder, primers, and bullets today I know which direction I'd go.

But to quote Will Rogers.

"There are 3 kinds of men.
The one who learns by reading.
The few who learn from observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by jmr40

You've spent a lot of time and burned a lot of powder trying to get a 125 gr bullet to 2600 fps with good accuracy. It's no trick to get a 180 gr bullet to 2600 fps with MOA accuracy from most any 308. 150's to 2800-2900 fps. With the cost of powder, primers, and bullets today I know which direction I'd go.

I have spent a lot of time, mainly thinking about this. I have spent money, some of it needed to be spent to get the rifle back into service. I've spent more shooting factory ammunition than I have components for reloading. I'm still only at 28 rounds of 125gr handloads, and 10 rounds of 130gr.

I have good loads and at least 100-200 rounds loaded for most of my hunting rifles already. The .30-30 is something I never reloaded for, no more than I was shooting it a box or two of factory fodder kept this 788 and my M94 well stocked. I'm mainly doing this to try some reloading techniques I see on YouTube, I want to see if it's worth doing and incorporating into my process.

Just because other people have tried this, it doesn't mean that it isn't worthwhile for me to try. I'm not expecting to make a 500+ yard .30-30 rifle, especially with a 125 grain bullet. I'm mainly doing it because the rifle design allows it, if I had only had a tube fed rifle I'd be sticking with the Hornady flex tip .30-30 bullets and probably factory ammunition.