16 gauge "Prairie Storm"

[bamaranger]

I've killed enough gobblers now that I am beginning to get a bit nostalgic with my hunts and also wish to add a bit of challenge to the equation. A few years back I bought a Savage 311A 16 ga double, choked M/IC. The attraction was my Dad hunted a 16 ga double back in the day. Though I would have preferred a gun choked M/F, or even F/F gun for my uses, I bought the IC/M gun at a good price. I have been searching for a high performance 16 gauge load to hunt gobblers. Though choked M/IC the Modified barrel shows promise, especially with smaller shot. Over dekes and used prudently within reasonable range, it should do. Despite it's Mod choke, the old double throws a pattern of #6 shot about the equal of my first turkey gun, which worked well enough when I was a teen. Within reasonable range the old double should suffice. Given the old doubles age, I have no interest in shooting the TSS 16 gauge loads that are available.......I woudn't pay the price anyhow.

Most of the standard 1-1/8 oz , #6 shot 16 ga loads have been a disappointment, and I had some old 1-1/4 oz baby mags that were awful. Best patterns have been with a simple 1 oz game load. I read good things about the Federal 1-1/8 oz Prairie Storm loads, using their Flite Control wad and oddly enough,30% the FliteStopper pellets. Does anybody have experience with this load in the 16 ga ( and I suppose others) and on what game?

I really wish somebody would come out with a high performance 16 ga, lead pellet load, intended for turkey hunting. Federal has all the components to do so.....if they'd put buffered , premium round shot in the Flite Control wad, I bet it would shoot lights out! Instead, the belted FliteStopper pellets almost have to shoot wider , the intent being I suppose, to even out wing shooting patterns. Great for pheasants, not so good for gobblers.

Anyhow, if you've experience with the Prairie Storm, especially in 16 ga and ideally if you've actually patterned some of the stuff, I'd like to hear from you. Also, if your're so inclined and a 16 gauge man, petition Federal to load up some 16 ga turkey loads as described above.

[44 AMP]

How old is your 16ga??

Guns made before the modern plastic shot cups became the common shells usually pattern tighter than more modern guns with the same choke marking.

Where, and when I grew up, the 16ga was often a boy's first "real" shotgun. Lots of us started out shooting a .410, because of the lighter recoil, and rapidly discovered being successful with a .410 requires you to be surgically good.

The 16 allowed for more success while one was still learning, and there were a lot of them around, most old(er) and generally fairly cheap. I got to tag along when my Dad went deer hunting, to learn and at 14, hunt small game (squirrel and rabbit) because the seasons overlapped. Carried a "store name" 16ga single shot, no longer remember the brand, it was old, and had a cracked wrist that had been re-enforced with a couple of wood screws.

shell selection wasn't good, but you could get birdshot, 6, or 7 1/2, but almost never anything else, and you could get slugs. Nothing at all wrong with a 16ga, they absolutely work if you do.

Nearly everyone I knew "retired" their 16s as soon as they could get a 12, I did, my 16th birthday present was a Winchester model of 1912, 12ga. Partly because it was a little better, but mostly because ammo was everywhere, and you could get nearly everything right off the shelf.

I think Federal might consider making the load you want, if you can show them the cash for a tractor trailer load (or more) up front or come up with enough people requesting that load to make it worth their time.

Sorry I can't be more help, good luck in your quest!

[bamaranger]

The SXS in question is a 411A and I researched the stampings and codes. The gun was made just after WWII, if I recall, 1947 (from memory, but prior 1950). Very likely part of the first generation of sporting guns made after the war.

Your comments regards older guns and modern shells is apt. My first "turkey" gun was my Grandad's Model of 1921 Savage pump. A 12 gauge w/ 28" barrel, solid rib and stamped FULL. With standard no frills 1-1/4 oz field loads, it would shoot tighter than my teenage hunting buddies guns which were of recent (well at that time 1970's) manufacture. It also weighed two tons.

Federal has all the components to load a premium 16 gauge turkey shell with a standard payload of 1-1/8 oz. The Flite-Control wad is key and the fact it exists in 16 gauge is huge. I suspect the FLite Stopper pellets are used to acutally broaden the patterns shot with Flite Control wads . There is no way a belted pellet will fly as true as a a true spherical pellet. Federal loads the Prairie Storm load with 70% true shot and 30% belted Flite Stopper. Load the shell with 100% premium true round plated pellets and buffer it as has been done for years and I bet the combo would be a dandy gobbler load.

Who would want it? My interest is nostalgic. Dad shot a Savage SXS 16 and in his later years bought an affordable Savage 16 ga m67 pump as well.
In this day and age of dedicated turkey guns, TSS shot and the rise of the sub-gauge guns I don't think there is a lot of interest in a dedicated 16 ga load for gobblers and there aren't any guns so marketed (dedicated 16 ga gobbler guns). There are new 16 ga guns, but are intended for wing shooting, not gobbler busting. So demand is likely low. I can't say how difficult or expensive a limited or seasonal production would be? As I stated earlier, the components exist, Federal only needs to put them together. That would have to be cheaper than starting from the ground up.

Simple answer for me would be to buy/trade for another 16 SXS choked M/F (I read the 30" guns are choked F/F) and just shoot existing loads.

[Jim Watson]

Tennessee Ernie Ford sang 'Shotgun Boogie' featuring a "16 gauge choked down like a rifle."

[44 AMP]

I'm not certain about the 16s, but I do know the 12s and the 30" guns were nearly always choked "full" in the old days. They were considered "long range" guns. It was uncommon to find shorter barrel doubles with the same choke in both barrels, unless the customer ordered them that way.

I have my Grandfather's Ithaca 12gs double, it was made to his order, with 26" tubes choked Full/Full, in 1909. He wasn't a bird hunter (or much of one, anyway) he was a farmer and his gun was for the foxes (or anything else) that went after his chickens, plus the odd rabbit or squirrel now and then...

Papa's test for a full choke 12ga was to balance a dime on the muzzle. A dime won't pass through a full choke (of that era). Today a dime will fall through a modern gun marked "Full".

[Jim Watson]

A T&S club member here had a special order Superposed, cylinder and cylinder because he considered then new one piece plastic wads to give too close a pattern for Skeet with any constriction at all.

[Ricklin]

The shotguns produced prior to one piece shot cup style wad ammunition are choked about one restriction tighter than modern guns, just a general observation, exceptions sure exist. I've a couple old Stevens doubles in the safe, a 30" 20 ga choked mod and full and a 26" 12 gauge choked I/C mod.
Generally that is what is encountered with these guns, short barrels are open choked and long barrels are tighter. Mike Orlen in Mass. is a good barrel man, quick and reasonable.
Were I the OP I would be looking for an old MEC single stage and roll my own.

[44 AMP]

The shotguns produced prior to one piece shot cup style wad ammunition are choked about one restriction tighter than modern guns, just a general observation, exceptions sure exist.

The old guns were choked with the ammunition of the day, which was fiber wads over the powder, then the shot, then a card wad on top held with a roll crimp of the paper shell. The choke was whatever it took to deliver the desired percentage of shot pellets in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. IIRC "full choke" was supposed to put 70% percent in that circle.

Modern shot cup shells can do that with a lesser amount of choke. It may average out that the difference is "one full step" I don't know. I DO know that a dime won't pass through a full choke 12ga made in 1909 or one made in 1922, but will fall through one made today or even 40 years ago.

[stinkeypete]

I've not shot the Prairie Storm, but I object to pellets that are not round. Quality round, high antimony round pellets for me.

In fact, the regular old Federal shells do well for me, the 1220 fps 1 ounce ones.

Now... um... you can hand load an ounce and a quarter tungsten #9 for turkey or maybe #7 1/2 for pheasant (I am using #9... need to get the subgauge out this year) and those hand loads are SHOCKING how tight they pattern. Your IC choke is going to look like IM and your Mod like Full or Turkey.
Why? Diamond hard, perfectly uniform and round shot flies straight.

[bamaranger]

The load that has produced the best patterns to date from the Mod barrel (by best, I mean most dense and gobbler killing like) have been the Federal 1 oz. #7-1/2, but the blue box load I have say 1165 fps. The 1-1/8 oz loads of #7-1/2 from any brand have thus far been pretty sparse and not very gobbler getter like. Loads with #6 have been just more of the same. I had really high hopes for some old 1-1/4oz #6 short mags, but they patterned just awful.

I have killed gobblers with #7-1/2 lead shot, all from a tightly choked Moss 835 and 2 oz of shot.........an absolute cloud of shot. The old Savage double will never throw the payload nor have the pattern density with its Mod barrel to come anywhere near what the Moss 835 can accomplish. However, the Mod barrel patterns tell me it will take a gobbler out to 30 yds or so even with #7-1/2. I'm just looking for some improvement it's current Mod barrel performance.

There was an old gent in my neighborhood back in the early 1970's of some reputation as a gobbler hunter. His load back then was 1-1/4 oz of....#7-1/2 from a full choke 12 gauge (Model 12). Turkey author Tom Kelley of Alabama (The Tenth Legion and others) discusses using standard 1-1/4 oz loads of #7-1/2 shot back in the day as well.

Get'em in range 30-35 yds and any reasonable combo works. I am simply looking for some way to improve the Mod barrel performance I am currently getting.

[georgehwbush]

44 AMP (Papa's test for a full choke 12ga was to balance a dime on the muzzle. A dime won't pass through a full choke (of that era). Today a dime will fall through a modern gun marked "Full". )

that's what i was tought also ^

i have 2 winchester 1200 pump 12ga guns from about 1969 and dime wont go through them. just wondering if brand might make a differance. or if it was just a time thing? {i didn't know that it had changed, but i'm not around full choke shotguns much}

[Ricklin]

Choke restrictions were made larger with the advent of plastic wads with shot cups. Mostly. The old paper hulls with fiber wads were what the old full choke was designed for.
My old 12 gauge guns will not pass a dime through the muzzle. I've not done that little test on my SX-1 full choke, I expect it will allow a dime to pass. Made in 1976, came to market in 74.

[Jim Watson]

As I recall, in the paper shell, felt wad days, full choke was .040” constriction from a nominal .729” 12 gauge bore.
Modified, also known as half choke at .020”, improved cylinder, quarter choke at .010”, and improved modified, 3/4 choke at .030” were usual.

One piece plastic shot cup wads need less constriction.
But my Perazzi MT 6’s tightest screw choke tube was marked 1.0 and one millimeter is .039”. Wish I still had it to measure.

[Ricklin]

Those dimensions jibe with my experience and research as well. Back in the day the primary bore diameter tended to stay consistent, not so much today with overbore and backboring both being popular.
It's important to know where you started, to know where you are going.

[bamaranger]

Federal, I would say the biggest supporter of the 16 ga, has a custom load shop, intended it appears, primarily for TSS shot. The site shows 16 gauge loading.......I am not really that interested in a Tss load for that old gun and it's 1946 (?) barrel steel.

However, I might float a call to Federal and see if their custom load shop might whip up a 16 ga turkey load using the Flite Control wad, premium buffered hard lead shot with a payload somewhere around 1-1/8 to 1-1/4 oz of shot, either #5 or #6.

The TSS loads run $100 per 10.....not going there! But if they could load 10 of the improved lead loads for say....... $30-40 bucks I might bite. I really think there might be a market for a 16 ga, dedicated turkey load. Lots of 16's out there, most sitting idle in the spring, if not year 'round