When is the firearms industry supposed to get back to normal again?

[44 AMP]

You have to conscientiously let a Colt trigger off completely to ensure the action is reset for the next shot.

Ok, and this is a problem for you, how???

Colt DA revolvers were law enforcement standard for well over a century, and PPC guns and other competition revolvers have been made on Colt DA revolvers, I don't think there is any kind of "design defect" in the Colt DA system. It is what it is, and seems to work at least tolerably well for the rest of the world.

It is better than S&W? I don't think so. Is it as good? Opinions vary. Both types WILL screw up if not operated properly. According to people I've spoken with, who have actual rapid fire DA experience with both, "short stroking" the trigger return will cause malfunctions, in both S&W and Colt DA revolvers. S&Ws may "skip" a chamber or sometimes even "roll back" one. Colt's have a reputation for the trigger jamming back (tying up the gun) in the same circumstances.

The solution is simple, operate the gun in the manner the designers intended.

[AlongCameJones]

trigger return spring than Colt's. That tends to push the fire's finger all the way forward practically and automatically to reset. A Smith's trigger seems much more intuitive than Colt's even for a greenhorn of handguns.

[JohnKSa]

The more positive trigger return is supposedly part of why Jerry Miculek chose to focus on the S&W revolvers. Of course, there's no free lunch--the stronger trigger return spring means heavier trigger pulls, if only slightly.

That's typical of design choices--you get something, you give something up. Which is why arguments about which is "best" really should be arguments about which is "best for". If you optimize for one thing in a design, you usually have to give up some level of performance in other areas.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Any one actually check out the actual rise in crime rates in America? Some places as high s 54%. Why? No one wants to admit it, but the truth is there. Police departments across the Country are losing Police. And it is going to get worse not better. Not until we find a leader that say's NO MORE! Good Americans are buying guns because they can see what is happening. They realize that they may be the only ones to protect their family, homes, business's. Record breaking gun sales are not stopping. And we are in a mess.
At present I have a large stock of 9mm as I saw this crap coming years ago. Now I see a dip in Buckshot. And I have been stocking up as much as I can afford, because I know it will spike up in the future. When will it end? The bottom line is the fact that we are in a mess NOW and have to deal with it. Make a plan, buy what you can afford. Be ready.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wh...ord-gun-sales/

[AlongCameJones]

Gun sales in this country were a record high last year. People are now smart enough to realize their smartphone won't save them in a threat emergency situation. Many liberals bought guns for the first time too.

The cops show up late most of the time and often time there is never enough time to wait for cops to show up or even dial the telephone! Law enforcement can take an hour or more to show up to somebody's home in the boonies.

I don't understand it, the Democrats are cutting funding for law enforcement while trying to push through even more gun control on top of it. What the devil!

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Define "normal". for now, this is normal. normal will change again. the only question is, how long and will it be a better or worse normal.

That was my first reaction too.

Part of my formative "normal" was the '94 AWB and no concealed carry permits. A good AR, an Armalite or Bushmaster, was $800 to $1100. Of course, I could stop into a Walmart or Kmart and buy 500 round bricks of rimfire for less than $10, and I could get better ammunition for less from distributor catalogues.

Sometime in the early 2000s, rimfire got harder to find. I walked out of a Dick's that wanted $20 for 500 Remington Golden Bullets. By 2010, I was seeing lower prices on ARs and components. Then in 2013 and most of 2014, I couldn't find an AR BCG for less than $175, but by 2016 BCGs were down to $50. Things hummed along until there was a legally enforced economic depression in March of 2020.

So what part of that quarter century is normal?

If AlongCameJones question really is when will we see another buyer's market for common items, I'd guess that it will be not too long after the demand is less strongly driven by current events and manufacturing gets back to prior capacity and there is some capacity expansion. My wild guess is that this will not happen for at least another two years, and it depends on people having a sense of confidence and hope in the future.

[5whiskey]

If AlongCameJones question really is when will we see another buyer's market for common items, I'd guess that it will be not too long after the demand is less strongly driven by current events and manufacturing gets back to prior capacity and there is some capacity expansion. My wild guess is that this will not happen for at least another two years, and it depends on people having a sense of confidence and hope in the future.

That’s the thing. There’s a lot more to this than just the political party in power, or civil unrest, or coronavirus lockdowns. Obviously it’s a combination of the 3, with some very complex ripple effects in the supply side of the economy that won’t shake out for a long time. The trade deficit with China has kicked into hyper drive. Shipping got thrown way out of sync and still hasn’t sorted out. It’s not uncommon for a dozen or more container ships to have to park outside of west coast ports for days or even weeks because the ports are so crowded. Some ships are doing “turn and burns” going back to China empty because it’s perceived as more profitable than waiting for cargo headed outbound. For crying out loud cap and ball revolvers all but disappeared last year. No I wouldn’t hold my breath on $.20 per round .223 for a very long time, if ever. Even reloaders who stocked up well will feel pain. Most folks simply don’t have a multi year supply of components for every caliber they shoot.

Look at other commodities. Like lumber and building materials. Gardening supplies. Pickup trucks. My daughters 2003 Dodge Ram has appreciated by over 50% since last March. And I am afraid that inflation will make things much worse before they start to get better... a product of government throwing money at people, even the ones that don’t need it. I actually worry less and less about the availability of wants in my shooting hobby and more and more about many other things by the day.

[Scorch]

When is the firearms industry supposed to get back to normal again?

Like 1980 normal (when Carter scared the gun owners)? 1994 normal (when Clinton scared the AR guys so bad you couldn't find a semi-auto ANYTHING on the shelves)? 2008 normal (when BO scared everybody so bad you couldn't find powder or primers for 3 months)? 2012 normal (when BO did it again)? 2016 normal (when Hillary screamed she would get all the guns so you couldn't find ammo or primers for 6 months)? Seems to me, having been involved in the firearms market for 40+ years, that "normal" is one panic after another. So yeah, it's back to normal. The new normal. Until the next panic.

[Ignition Override]

Scorch: You mentioned that "2008 normal ..BO scared everybody so bad..".

I was chatting with a pretty astute guy in Academy today. Told him what some Astute friends told me weeks Before the 2008 election.

They knew that BO had a planned, highly complex legislative agenda having Nothing to do with guns. What a success! "I want me one of dem ARs before he can Take 'Em!"
Much of the scare back then was done by innuendos and totally vague "feelings" on the Commercial Side, to create enough anxiety among the gullible people to help sell a huge number of guns and ammo. Ka-Ching, sort of like right now----------

BO's focus, as many observers noticed Before the 2008 election, was on the "Affordable" Healthcare Act, as everybody finally figured out later, when it required 'buying out' a few Senators for it to pass.

Even now, a politician suggests anything about tighter gun legislation and the nervous cattle begin running.
We've seen almost nothing under Biden, not even a Senate discussion on UBC...never mind a discussion on banning pistol grips, muzzle brakes etc.

As a guy on TheHighRoad pointed out, Biden's vague talk raised a fair bit of campaign money for the Party - as it also did for the GOP. People still confuse talk with action.... Just like this week with Putin in Geneva. Not even a threat.
Gun legislation is a far more dangerous risk for the Dems than most of the public seems to realize. Al Gore's lesson persists. "Eh, Dude, who's Gore?"

[jdc1244]

NORMAL means you go on line and Google "new Mossberg 500 for sale" and get a front page full of gun dealers. In that case, NORMAL means "out of stock" is the exception and not the rule for America's number one shotgun.

Correct.

[seanc]

Ignition Override

Even now, a politician suggests anything about tighter gun legislation and the nervous cattle begin running.
We've seen almost nothing under Biden, not even a Senate discussion on UBC...never mind a discussion on banning pistol grips, muzzle brakes etc.

No need to pass an new legislation that'll cost anyone votes for either party.

With the administrative state, all you have to do is re-interpret the rules. We've seen this already for 7n6 ammo, green tip (almost), bump stocks and right now the ATF is fiddling with arm braces and "ghost guns". Biden's nominee to head the ATF, David Chipman, is a rabid anti-gunner. Among his goals is to re-categorize semi-auto firearms as machineguns if they can accept hi-cap mags. He hasn't said what he considers "hi-cap".

As to when the industry gets back to "normal", I'm guessing production capacity should be back to normal by this fall. Remington was MIA during all the Wu-flu nonsense, but are back in business now, which was a big missing piece of the ammo production pie, Wu-flu or not. Demand may still exceed production capacity for a couple years, so I would assume at least 2 years before prices come down, and "never" for when we'll see Jan. 2020 prices. Normal and now abnormal inflation has moved the bottom price points. No panic needed to see these trends.

[44 AMP]

Biden's nominee to head the ATF, David Chipman, is a rabid anti-gunner. Among his goals is to re-categorize semi-auto firearms as machineguns if they can accept hi-cap mags.

How sad for him he has chosen goals that are not legally achievable.

Unlike a certain stock or brace, the definition of what a machinegun is, is NOT written in ATF regs that the agency can change or "reinterpret".

It is written in Federal LAW and only Congress can change that, not the director appointee of any Federal agency, no matter how much they rilly, rilly want to!

[seanc]

44 AMP:

How sad for him he has chosen goals that are not legally achievable.

Unlike a certain stock or brace, the definition of what a machinegun is, is NOT written in ATF regs that the agency can change or "reinterpret".

It is written in Federal LAW and only Congress can change that, not the director appointee of any Federal agency, no matter how much they rilly, rilly want to!

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks
"On December 18, 2018, Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker announced that the Department of Justice has amended the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), clarifying that bump stocks fall within the definition of “machinegun” under federal law, as such devices allow a shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger."

Nope, won't ever happen again .

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Lol, just read that Minneapolis is preparing for more Normal! National Guard on call.

[FITASC]

As to the original thread title, gun shops here are loaded with guns; it's the lack of ammo (although slowly improving) that is keeping the gun clubs fairly empty. Academy, BASS, have racks and cases full of guns.

[44 AMP]

"On December 18, 2018, Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker announced that the Department of Justice has amended the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), clarifying that bump stocks fall within the definition of “machinegun” under federal law, as such devices allow a shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger."

Understand that this is an administrative ruling on a specific item and they have declared that it now falls under the definition of machine gun. This is not a change to the definition of what a machine gun is, in Federal law.

While it is more than a bit of a stretch, it is arguably allowable if one accepts the "initiates a continuous firing cycle" (where in reality the trigger is pulled over and over) as being covered under the law's definition of firing more than a single round with a single pull of the trigger.. Personally, I think it's a BS ruling, and is outside the definition in law, but until/unless someone with deep enough pockets and a stake in the matter takes it through the court process (years worth) the BS will stand until a court rules otherwise.

This is a far, far cry from claiming that SEMI AUTOS are, or should be machineguns. I do not believe there is any way the ATF can amend or change any of its rulings to cover that. Doing so simply grossly exceeds their lawful authority.

[sfwusc]

Semi auto would cause enough push back that money would support fighting the admin ruling. Bump stocks were easy prey. Go buy some rubber bands in place of the bump stock.

[Ignition Override]

Classic Arms, Cordova/Memphis TN, on Germantown Rd.

* Today the store was literally >>filled<< with Multiple varieties 9, .380, .45, .40…) of 'semi-auto' ammo and many dozens of guns.

The handgun cases were filled, and rifles filled every wall - even several AR-15s, a WASR-10 ($1,200) and a "Norinco" SKS. Many rifles stand On The Floor.

** Yesterday at 1:00, Academy Sports had over 1,500 rds. of both .223 and "5.56x45"....not including small 'actual cases' of the same ammo by "Federal" on a different shelf. "4-Box Limit".

*** Last week the same Academy had -- at 3:00-- very many boxes of 9mm and the same large supply of both .223 and "5.56x45".
I prepared years ago for a major panic, but it's interesting as a detached observer (there to buy new running shoes) to watch the scenario.

The problem fairly soon will likely be people finding it difficult to Sell their personal guns, without taking a loss.
Many of these people Need the cooling panic to not cool much more........