Good News...I think.

[Henry Baker]

As you can see from my profile I am only 16 years old, but I have two brothers one of which is 24. My 24 year old brother, William, came home from college today, while he was here I told him that it would be easy for him to get a full auto. I told him that as I understand it all he had to do was to get a class two license, get a drop in full auto sear for the Vector arms AK47 which we already have, install it,and register it with the NFA. I know all this is easier said than done, but am I correct?

Here are my main questions:

1. Is it realy that simple?

2. How much does a Class two license cost? (I think this will be the thing that kills this idea)

3. I think the sear should be around 200 dollars, is this correct?

4. Where can I get the sear?

5. Can we install the sear ourselves or will a gun smith need to work on it?

6. I believe it will cost 200 dollars to register the gun, is this correct?

7. Will it be transferable after it's registered full auto?

Thanks in advance,
Henry Baker

[Casp_A]

1. Maybe.
2. You don't get a Class II license, you get the gun/DIAS transfered to you via Form 4, no licensing involved.
3. A DIAS will cost you thousands of dollars, plus the $200 tax.
4. I have no idea where to get a DIAS for an AK, if such a thing even exists. Try Google.
5. Not sure. The gun shouldn't have to be modified to install a DIAS, but gunsmith fitting might be required.
6. It will cost a $200 tax to get a DIAS or fullauto gun transfered to you, and you don't have to register the gun you put the DIAS in; besides, you can't.
7. Like I said you don't have to/can't register the gun fullauto, it remains a Title 1 firearm, and you can transfer the DIAS to someone else via another Form 4 and $200 tax.

...or...

I'm not really sure that there is such a thing as a DIAS for an AK, but I could be wrong. The only one's I've seen are for AR-15's and HK 9x's. In any case, you don't get a license, you get the gun or DIAS tranfered to you (your brother, whatever) on an ATF Form 4. That involves a $200 flat tax and some special backround checks and fingerprint forms and a few months (the ATF takes a long time to do paperwork.) After that, the gun or part can be transfered to someone else via another Form 4 if you desire to sell it.

If you get a DIAS, that part is the registered machinegun itself, and can be installed in any weapon you see fit to install it in without having to modify or register the gun itself. Besides, you can't register new fullautos anymore. The only stuff you can get your hands on is stuff made and registered before May Somethingth of 1986, which brings us to another point: fullauto guns and DIAS's (and generally anything else having to do with fullautos) are extremely expensive due to finite supply.

[CQBArms]

1. No
2. No such thing for $200.
3. No such thing as an unmarried sear for an AK. Not one you could buy.
4. You can't.
5. Won't happen
6. Can't register new machine guns as an individual.
7. It won't and you can't register it anyway.


Your brother can get his FFL 07, pay $150 for three years, pay for his SOT $500-1000 per year, then make new machine guns. If he get's the FFL and SOT, builds one post sample and then gives up the FFL and SOT expect trouble. Also if he gives up the FFL and SOT all post samples go bye bye.

No machine gun he makes today will be transferable, they will be post sample guns. You can't buy premade post samples without demo letters.

[Henry Baker]

Oh well. Thanks for the information. In light of this we may just trade the AK for an AR and have an auto sear transfered to us. Also, we could get a supressor for the AR. Would this be legal? And how much would this cost?

I am trying to find the cheapest and easiest way to get a full auto legally. Who isn't?

Also, I know I've seen "Drop in full auto" AR sears advertised in Shotgun News among other magazines for like 200-250 dollars. What's the deal with those?

Thanks again,
Henry Baker

[CQBArms]

1. Depending on your state, the suppressor may or may not be legal. Their cost for an AR...from about $300-$1000 depending ont he quality and construction.


2. The DIAS in the shotgun news is fake and not worth ten cents.

In the old days before the BATFE said that the DIAS was a machine gun people would make them and they did not have to register them. Well then the BATFE said, ummm those are actually machine guns and need to be registered. So then born into life was the RDIAS a registered drop in autosear.

Now here's the rub, sine they didn't need to be registered before, the question comes into play...how can you prove that they were made prior to the registration requirement. Maybe they were made after and the maker is just saying that they were pre registration requirement sears.

So that being said, you are not going to find a real DIAS for $250.
RDIAS go for...well maybe $8K or so...
Some will say that the DIAS adverts are BATFE stings...I don't know and I don't care...and I never plan to find out. I suggest you take the same approach.

[MGRacer]

Oh well. Thanks for the information. In light of this we may just trade the AK for an AR and have an auto sear transfered to us. Also, we could get a supressor for the AR. Would this be legal? And how much would this cost?

I am trying to find the cheapest and easiest way to get a full auto legally. Who isn't?

Also, I know I've seen "Drop in full auto" AR sears advertised in Shotgun News among other magazines for like 200-250 dollars. What's the deal with those?

Thanks again,
Henry Baker

A transferable auto sear or lightning link will cost thousands for the AR as well + the $200 transfer tax. The cheapest way to get into full auto is the Mac 10 or M11 9mm subgun route. I have seen these advertised for $2000 to $3000 + the $200 transfer tax.

The AR sears advertised for $200 - $250 cannot be legally used to do anything other than hold paper down and are not legal to have if you have an AR.

[Casp_A]

Hey man, I feel your pain. I live in California so fullauto isn't even an option at all for me.

With sound suppressors, you still have to do the Form 4 and $200 tax to get them, but you can get the latest and greatest stuff made to date if you wish, so long as it's made in the US. Gemtech and Knight's Armament are good companies to look at. The Gemtech Halo suppressor is pretty cool 'cause it can be mounted on any .223/5.56mm with a NATO-style flash hider with no modification to the gun. That's a pretty good way to go with a standard A1 or A2 upper on an AR-15. 'Course, that won't silence the gun, especially with a normally supersonic round like the .223, but it'll at least kill the muzzle blast enough that you don't need hearing protection. Also, you could probably make your own suppressor on a Form 1, but I'm not sure that it would be transferable.

I'm pretty sure there's something fishy about those Shotgun News DIAS's, not exactly sure what though. I think it's something along the lines of, the're not an actuall firearm so the're generally legal along the lines of being a paperweight, but the're not registered and owning one in combination with an AR counts as "conspiring to break NFA laws" or something like that. Others would know better than I, but basically I'd stay far away from something like that.

[Henry Baker]

Casp A I am sorry to hear about your place of residence. Also, I agree with you fully. Going to jail is some thing I and my brother try to avoid. It looks like we'll have to wait until we can afford an M16A1 the normal way. I live in Florida and I'm pretty sure autos and supressors are both legal. Thanks for your help.

P.S. How much did california's governing body get for their souls?

[shaggy]

Also, I know I've seen "Drop in full auto" AR sears advertised in Shotgun News among other magazines for like 200-250 dollars. What's the deal with those?

A felony to own or possess in conjunction with an AR15. In fact, of highly questionable legality to posess even if you don't own or possess an AR15. Take some free legal advice and avoid those like the plague. If you think paying for the real, legal thing is expensive, the attorneys fees to keep you out of prison will be worse.

A registered DIAS is what you want; expect to pay about $10,000-11,000 for it. If it doesn't transfer through a class 3 dealer you're just asking for trouble. Another option is a registered lightning link. One of these will cost about $7,000. Both of these are legal full-auto conversion devices. You install them in a semi-auto AR15 and the conversion part makes it full-auto. A legal and registered receiver M16 can run anywhere between about $9,500 to $18,000 depending on the manufacturer, model, condition, etc. Registered and transferable are the key words to look for when buying.

[Henry Baker]

Thanks shaggy, I've been waiting for you to chime in. I want to stay within the boundaries of the law fair or not. My father's a lawyer so I know what you mean? Also, What is a lightning link? I've never heard of that before. Do you think I should get an AR or an H&K type rifle?

[CQBArms]

If you want full auto, the most adaptable package is an AR.

The lightning link is a little strip of metal that allows the AR to run full auto only.
very few or no mods needed to the gun.

[Henry Baker]

Does the DIAS allow it to be full or semi auto? Also does a lightning link have an advantage over a DIAS, or visa versa?

Thanks
Henry Baker

[CQBArms]

RDIAS allows for select fire and sometimes has to be fitted to the lower in question and timed right.

RDIAS is nice because it's semi and full auto...but truthfully when you shoot full auto for fun...you shoot full auto.

The LL is nice because it's cheaper, drops in easier, but isn't as valuable.

If I were getting up in that range...I would go:
Registered receiver
RDIAS
LL

[Henry Baker]

Thanks for your help. Due to the price of getting an MG I think I'll wait until I am old enough and rich enough to get one myself. What I think I'll do instead is get a can for my AK. The muzzle break screws off so attaching it should be easy. There's a shop here called Tim's Guns that is a class III dealer. I buy from him all the time so next time I go over there I'll ask him about it. Speaking of which, I still have to get my AK back from him...

Just a couple more questions and I'm done. How much should a supresser for a 7.62x36mm standard AK cost? Also, The transfer tax is still 200 dollars isn't it?

Thanks one more time,
Henry Baker

[Casp_A]

Geez, I'm not sure that anyone makes a suppressor specifically for the AK either. 'Course, you can use any .308 can, but it might take some custom work to have it mounted. Here is the Gemtech TPRS can for .308. They have it in a thread-mount version, but I'm not sure that that's the same as the threading on an AK muzzle. The list price is $675.

All NFA items except AOW's involve a $200 tax stamp; that includes fully-automatic weapons, destructive devices, sound suppressors, short barreled rifles, and short barreled shotguns. AOW's ("any other weapons," like pen guns) require a $5 tax stamp.

[CQBArms]

Advanced Armament makes the "krinkov" for AK's ... it seems in specific the Krinkov rifle but it ican be had for either the 47 or the 74.

[Henry Baker]

Yet another idea. The AK suppressors are to iffy for the cost, but I also have a Walther P22, which I love, that I would love to put a can on. I am looking at the Outback II by Gem-tech, is that a good one for the money? I've also heard of coastal suppressors but I can't find any information on them. Are they good? Hey, I can finally get rid of the damn armadillo under my room and the raccoons that eat the cat food.

Wow! I've gone from a machine gun to a 22 pistol with a supresser. I really need to make up my mind.

Indecisively,
Henry Baker

[CQBArms]

That krink works great.

Yes get an outback II. Get the thread adapter from Gemtech...and have a go.
You have to be 21 for a handgun and 21 for a suppresor or any NFA device...so by the time you turn that age...things might be a bit different.

It might be Outback IV...or something.

[Henry Baker]

Well actually whene I say "I'm getting a suppressor" what I mean is, my brother is getting a suppressor. By the time I'm 21 suppressors could be illegal or on a registry like Machine guns are now. How loud will the P22 be with the can? I've been told it's like a car door slamming, but I've also been told you just hear the slide moving. Which is correct?

Thanks,
Henry Baker

[Henry Baker]

oops!

[CQBArms]

http://www.cqbarms.com/rugwal.wmv

[Henry Baker]

That Outback II looks great but are there any similarly priced suppressors that would be quieter than the Outback II? I've heard that the Tactical Innovations model Tac 65 and the Advanced Armament Pilot are both good. Would either of those work better or is the Outback II best? Also, does anyone make hosters for suppressed hand guns?

Many Thanks,
Henry Baker

[CQBArms]

Get the Outback II, that's the best advice you are going to get.

Yes AAC makes a holster as do other companies.

[Henry Baker]

Thanks CQBArms, I like the Outback II so I'm glad it's good. Whene I see my dealer on Wednesday I'll discuss this whith him. I have looked at the AAC holsters, (that's what got me thinking about getting one) but I'm not sure if they'll work with the P22 and the Outback II, and I haven't yet been able to locate another company that produces them.

[Henry Baker]

I just talked to my dealer. He said that he has the Outback II in stock, and that it comes with the P22 adapter. Whene my brother comes home from college we'll go purchase it and get the ball rolling on the paper work.

Thanks for all the help,
Henry Baker