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Old December 12, 2018, 01:39 PM   #1
rebs
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reloading match grade LC 223/5.56

for you guys that reload match grade amm, how do you sort your LC 5.56 cases ?
Do you go by year date, volume or weigh the cases ?
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Old December 12, 2018, 01:46 PM   #2
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"...year date, volume or weigh the cases..." Makes no difference of any kind. It's how you load 'em that matters. The bullet is important but meticulous loading techniques are most important. And that means weighing each and every powder charge plus having the cases all the same length to start.
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Old December 12, 2018, 02:04 PM   #3
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Consistent case prep and case neck tension are the most important.

If you work up loads and get in a node, powder charge is not that big of a deal.
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Old December 12, 2018, 02:22 PM   #4
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Granted not all of this is pertinent to say 1/4 MOA to 1/2 MOA loads in a gas gun, but the basic fundamentals are relevant. Take a read of the article, and if you want to dive down the rabbit hole of testing, set aside $10K to get started.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/1...ifle-accuracy/

I am a bit stubborn, and so I don't like to take what others say without some challenge and verification, so I did play with the parameters mentioned. I have a disproportionate number of 21 and 22 inch rifle barrels, and yes 2 at 21.75". When I do a 10 shot load development test and place my charge weight appropriately in the node, +/- 0.1 grains is irrelevant, so I load on the progressive.

Enjoy the process!
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Old December 12, 2018, 02:41 PM   #5
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Date, volume, weight...
Man i got bigger things to worry about.

Do a good case prep, load, shoot.
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Old December 12, 2018, 07:40 PM   #6
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by no means am I an expert on this, but from a sorting standpoint, I have found some pretty drastic differences in years and case length. LC(13) almost all were 1.901-1.9015. I don't know enough to say those 1.901" cases are too short or not, but i have set them aside for now and am working with LC (11) trimmed to 2.00". that was a good length that didn't require culling out a great many short ones.

Another observation on SAME year dates, not all LC (11) are the same. I found a few, less than 10, where the head stamps were oriented opposite all the others. stamped information oriented to be read from the center out, as opposed to being read from the outside. Also the fonts were a different. Just saying the year is just a starting point, at least for me.
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Old December 12, 2018, 09:01 PM   #7
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I can get 3/4 moa out of mixed lc brass that has been well prepped(flash hole deburred,primer pockets uniformed, consistent length etc) with h335 and thrown charges. I can get that down to half moa if i sort cases by weight and hand trickle.
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Old December 12, 2018, 10:04 PM   #8
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how do you work with neck tension or how do you get them the same ?
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Old December 13, 2018, 07:58 AM   #9
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Neck tension is controlled by hardness, inner diameter and neck thickness.

Necks can be thin’d or evened out by neck turning, or better brass can be bought.

ID is a result of you sizing process. Dies can be modified to produce larger or smaller I’d.

Hardness is controlled by keeping brass sorted by # of firings. Annealing can help even out and reduce hardness.
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Old December 13, 2018, 04:02 PM   #10
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if you weigh the cases what is an acceptable weight range ?
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Old December 13, 2018, 04:29 PM   #11
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How much difference on the target you expect to see Rebs ? Last year I took a bolt action .223 with a match grade barrel, aftermarkey trigger and stock. The I weighed out cases, did the water volume thing, sorted by year etc. Weighed and sorted bullets. Went to the range and did chrono tests and grouping tests and at the end discovered no difference in velocity consistency or grouping consistency.

The rifle has repeatedly shot .5 and .6 MOA 10 shot groups at 300 yards with non sorted cases and non weighed bullets. Once put 19 out of 20 into a 1 inch high ribbon at 300 and have posted pics of the groups when load testing

Now may you will be able to separate the difference in accuracy and precision from the noise of gun capability and shooter technique with your AR , but I sure the heck couldn't with my rifle. A 1000 yard benchrester might but I can't.

Anyway have fun sorting, it is a great way to spend a winter evening. If I lived up north I would probably be sorting primers while watching cat videos
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Old December 13, 2018, 10:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hounddawg View Post
How much difference on the target you expect to see Rebs ? Last year I took a bolt action .223 with a match grade barrel, aftermarkey trigger and stock. The I weighed out cases, did the water volume thing, sorted by year etc. Weighed and sorted bullets. Went to the range and did chrono tests and grouping tests and at the end discovered no difference in velocity consistency or grouping consistency.

The rifle has repeatedly shot .5 and .6 MOA 10 shot groups at 300 yards with non sorted cases and non weighed bullets. Once put 19 out of 20 into a 1 inch high ribbon at 300 and have posted pics of the groups when load testing

Now may you will be able to separate the difference in accuracy and precision from the noise of gun capability and shooter technique with your AR , but I sure the heck couldn't with my rifle. A 1000 yard benchrester might but I can't.

Anyway have fun sorting, it is a great way to spend a winter evening. If I lived up north I would probably be sorting primers while watching cat videos
hounddawg, did you already have an Optimum Charge Weight figured out before the testing?
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Old December 13, 2018, 11:47 PM   #13
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What kind of a match are you shooting?

There is a big difference between 3 gun and benchrest.
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Old December 14, 2018, 06:59 AM   #14
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I shoot mainly bench rest between 100 and 300 yards
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Old December 14, 2018, 08:25 AM   #15
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@jdc sorting cases by weight and water volume was something I did one time and decided it was a waste of time. Neither my groups or my velocity consistency changed in any way in a test of 25 rounds sorted and 25 randomly picked. But some in the the .1 benchrest crowd thinks it makes a difference so whatever floats your boat

@ Rebs post a few pics of your targets and your benchrest gun, I am sure everyone would be happy to help you analyze targets. I love pictures, they say so much more than words
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Old December 14, 2018, 09:21 AM   #16
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I shoot mainly bench rest between 100 and 300 yards
A 22 PPC and prepped Norma brass should win you a match or two, if you and the rifle are up to it.

A shift in caliber would gain you an advantage and you won’t be sorting brass because .22 PPC is like hens teeth as far as range pickups go.
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Old December 14, 2018, 11:29 AM   #17
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Another observation on SAME year dates, not all LC (11) are the same. I found a few, less than 10, where the head stamps were oriented opposite all the others.
Interesting. My biggest lot of LC brass is LC11, including 1K that I bought new, unprimed. I'm fixing to process all of it, it's all once-fired now, and start the tedious task of checking case length... I'll be curious to see what I find.

As far as benchrest cases, I would start with a known... something like Lapua.... if you are going to go through all the trouble of working the cases. I'm not found LC, particularly in 7.62mm, to be all that consistent.
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Old December 14, 2018, 02:53 PM   #18
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I don't shoot match but if I did, the only thing that would change from what I do now is the bullet I'd choose and size of group I'd settle on. I do admit that I go a bit farther than some in reloading but I simply don't go overboard. I don't adjust the distance off the lands, I don't weigh bullet's, don't reburr flash holes or any of the other thing's match shooters do. Generally a hunting rifle shooting 1" groups at 100 yds is good enough for me but, I only have eight rifles. On 308 is for cast bullet's only, my 30-06 and 6.5x55 hang right around 1" +/- my 25-06 runs right at 3/4"- and both my 243's run at and a bit under 1/2". Now the best group I ever shoot was .009" ctc with my 25-06 and 100gr SMK. I looked at that and put the gun away without shooting it again. I know I can't do that again. Oh yea, I have a 6.5x05 that with 140gr SMK's runs at about 1/4" at 100yds.

I think the load for a match rifle is very important and of course the rifle itself even more so but the most important factor I believe is the shooter. Never seen or heard of anyone deburring their own flash hole to shoot better! :-)
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Old December 14, 2018, 03:50 PM   #19
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I think the load for a match rifle is very important and of course the rifle itself even more so but the most important factor I believe is the shooter
amen to that Don. I would bet Norm Harrold (1000 yd F class champion) could loan me his rifle and ammo and take mine and beat me handily any day of the week at any range in any condition.

wanna find out if it is the equipment or you do some practice with a .22LR at 100 and 200. Shoot some groups on a dead calm day the do the same on a windy day. Humbling does not begin to describe it
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Old December 14, 2018, 05:57 PM   #20
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My rifle is a Colt AR 15 match target competition with 20" barrel
I do not know how to post pictures. but mt current groups are under 1" at 100 yds and 2 to 2 1/2" at 300 yds.
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Old December 14, 2018, 06:06 PM   #21
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Now we are getting somewhere.

My advice is forget sorting cases unless you are really bored and looking for a way to kill some time. Get some 77 gn Sierras, load them to magazine length with Varget starting at 21.0 and working up in .3 gn increments to 23.5. Somewhere in there you should find a node that gives you .75 to 1.0 MOA 5 shot group at 100. Practice with that load till you can do 1.0 - 1.5 MOA 10 shot groups at 200 and 300. Buy a new barrel rinse and repeat

If you don't find a good node first time around choose the best of the bunch and try a few other brands of primers with it. I like CCI's but had some really good results with CCI magnums and Fed Matches
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Old December 14, 2018, 06:46 PM   #22
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My rifle is a Colt AR 15 match target competition with 20" barrel
I do not know how to post pictures. but mt current groups are under 1" at 100 yds and 2 to 2 1/2" at 300 yds.
So this is “benchrest” but not competition, just for fun?
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Old December 14, 2018, 07:16 PM   #23
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I shoot off a bench for fun, mostly 100 yard. Do all the anal stuff like uniform primer pockets, anneal brass every time, sort bullets by weight. Once loaded up ten 55.4gr bullets and ten 54.9gr bullets using identical powder charge and components. Even with the half grain spread in bullet weight, POI was the same along with group size.
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Old December 14, 2018, 09:12 PM   #24
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My rifle is a Colt AR 15 match target competition with 20" barrel
HA! I've got one of those... the best thing I could do to improve accuracy on it would be replace the abysmal trigger!!! It's the worst in the safe.

I've been working up a load with 69grn SMK's and H335, myself.
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Old December 14, 2018, 09:30 PM   #25
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I put in a Geissele national match trigger in mine. i got the trigger on sale for 225.00 fantastic trigger comes with three spring sets and is fully adjustable
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