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Old February 19, 2019, 04:54 PM   #1
Oldjarhead
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Both eyes open

For you combat/self defense concealed carriers and instructors. At handgun self defense distances, seven yards, or less, when you draw and fire, in self defense, is it really realistic to aim front sight with one eye or two eyes open, focusing on the front sight or pointing at the threat and firing. (Point shooting) Thanks.
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Old February 19, 2019, 06:39 PM   #2
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so long as both eyes are not closed!
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Old February 19, 2019, 07:07 PM   #3
Bartholomew Roberts
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I’ve never had any trouble doing it in force-on-force or competition. I make it a point to see the front sight every time and shoot both eyes open.
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Old February 19, 2019, 07:36 PM   #4
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You keep better situational awareness with both eyes open. Also, your eyes tend to work better as a team.

So leaving them both open is a plus.

That's IF you can manage it. Some people have difficulty shooting with both eyes open and have to close one eye to get a good sight picture. Obviously if you can't run the gun well with both eyes open then it's better to close one even if it's not the ideal solution.
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Old February 21, 2019, 08:58 AM   #5
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I practice point shooting as well as aimed shooting but keep both eyes open in all the drills.
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Old February 21, 2019, 11:53 AM   #6
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I have just started training to shoot with both eyes open in the last month. At first it was difficult (especially since I am right-handed, left-eye dominant), but I have discovered that what works best for me is to focus on the target and line up the slightly blurry sights. I am accurate out to 10 yards doing this as if I use one eye and focus on the front sight.

I've experimented with pure point shooting, but can't get the accuracy unless I get at least a partial sight picture.

If I'm shooting longer than 10 yards, I still revert to one-eye and a front sight focus. I also have to go slower.
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Old February 21, 2019, 12:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinner View Post
I have just started training to shoot with both eyes open in the last month. At first it was difficult (especially since I am right-handed, left-eye dominant), but I have discovered that what works best for me is to focus on the target and line up the slightly blurry sights. I am accurate out to 10 yards doing this as if I use one eye and focus on the front sight.

I've experimented with pure point shooting, but can't get the accuracy unless I get at least a partial sight picture.

If I'm shooting longer than 10 yards, I still revert to one-eye and a front sight focus. I also have to go slower.
As someone that is also right handed and left eye dominant I have always shot with both eyes open. Idk why, but I was lucky in that I never had to work at it. It seems to very by person.

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Old February 21, 2019, 12:37 PM   #8
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anything inside of 25 yards, I shoot with both eyes open. If I am trying to bullseye shoot or shooting at a far away target, I will close one eye.

generally speaking, a traditional or perfect shooting method is probably not what is going to happen in a fast moving armed conflict. I don't expect to have both arms extended while seeking a tradition site picture. I train so that I am no stranger to half hip, point shooting and just putting the front blade site on a target. I wont arbitrarily forego traditional aiming if I have the luxury of time but I accept that urgency sometimes overcomes formalness.
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Old February 21, 2019, 12:54 PM   #9
Ricklin
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Both eyes open

Both eyes open always for me.

Handgun is a defensive weapon. Vision is our most important ability with regard to defending ourselves.

Closing one eye reduces the ability to defend ourselves.
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Old February 21, 2019, 01:27 PM   #10
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"...seven yards or less..." Best to use both eyes on the target. It's about one's eye/hand coordination. Keeping in mind that the assorted shooting games are not practice for anything.
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Old February 21, 2019, 01:39 PM   #11
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When I was a grade school kid I learned about eye dominance and worked on making my brain pick up either eye. Why? because I over-think stuff and I did...

Now I find it extremely difficult to shoot with two eyes open because my sight picture wanders back and forth from right to left. Other than shooting or the repetition of bring a gun on target are there drills to retrain for eye dominance because awareness Is immensely greater with 2 eyes open?
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Old February 21, 2019, 04:56 PM   #12
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Both eyes open always for me.

Handgun is a defensive weapon. Vision is our most important ability with regard to defending ourselves.

Closing one eye reduces the ability to defend ourselves.
That may be a little overly dramatic but its hard to argue that you are likely going to see more with 2 eyes than you do with 1.

I am not so sure that vs tunnel vision and other issues that cause most people to narrowly focus on the threat and coupled with the fact that most SD incidents are over in a few mere seconds. I am not really inclined to believe that closing one eye is going to be some sort of meaningful handicap
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Old February 21, 2019, 06:34 PM   #13
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For self defense I practice with both eyes open & point & shoot I don't aim, just pull out of the holster point, pull the trigger. In a real shootout you could be dead in the time it takes you to aim.
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Old February 21, 2019, 08:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldjarhead
For you combat/self defense concealed carriers and instructors. At handgun self defense distances, seven yards, or less, when you draw and fire, in self defense, is it really realistic to aim front sight with one eye or two eyes open, focusing on the front sight or pointing at the threat and firing. (Point shooting)
Yes.
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Old February 23, 2019, 09:14 AM   #15
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Here is an interesting article on the topic: link

I must confess that I haven't thought much on the topic as having a strong right eye dominance to go along with right handedness has made it easy for me to keep both eyes open.
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Old February 23, 2019, 02:16 PM   #16
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I like to announce at the range I'm about to shoot with both eyes closed and holding my breath. Then I peek just a wee little bit.
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Old February 23, 2019, 04:34 PM   #17
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Anyone can point shoot. It's just a matter of pointing the gun and shooting. If you can't point a gun at a man-sized target that's 3 yards away, you won't be able to find the sights either. You're hopeless. If you can point a gun, it's still worth practicing pointing and shooting it more accurately. This isn't any different than throwing darts, and the keys to it are some of the same fundamentals that apply to aimed firing like grip and trigger control.

As valuable as I think point shooting is, I'm not convinced that point-shooting is much faster or even any faster than aimed firing. I can draw and get an aimed shot on target in 1.3 seconds. Competition shooters can do it in half that time. I don't see point shooting cutting that time meaningfully.

Where point shooting is valuable is not for speed, but when you do not have the physical space to bring your gun up and line up the sights with your dominant eye.

I cannot think of any reason to ever close an eye when shooting handgun. Eye closing of the dominant eye is done when you're trying to use your non-dominant eye, usually because you're trying to use a rifle or shotgun when you're cross dominant. I do that, but I probably need to switch to left-hand rifle. For handgun, just bring the sights to the dominant eye and never close an eye.

Point shooting, besides being useful when you don't have space to bring the gun up, is also useful when you cannot see your gun or your sights. There are several reasons that could be, including darkness and an attacker in your line of sight, blocking your eyes or controlling your head.

This is a good drill that is the familiar 1, 2, 3, 4 but starts with the gun in the 1/4 hip position (point shooting), moves up to the retention position, and the push out to full extension if you have the space.

https://youtu.be/i-_xVdj_ktc

Notice the presentation all the way to "4" is taking longer because they are shooting all the way up. They could instead rush to 4 before the first shot. That would not be slower, but it would not work if they didn't have or make the space.

I can't remember if they discuss moving back to make space in this video or not. If not, back-pedaling can be a bad idea. You don't want to end up on your ass. If your technique requires you to take steps back to allow full extension instead of point shooting and you end up tripping, your technique sucks.
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Old February 24, 2019, 07:37 AM   #18
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I've practiced with varying ways of shooting with both eyes open, and have taken two courses focused on close-quarters, unaimed or barely aimed fire. At distances inside of about 7 yards, if the front sight is bright enough (a reason I like XS sights, especially these new bright orange options they have) I can generally see the sight and know I'm going to land a quick hit somewhere inside of the target area. I keep both eyes focused on the target, where I'm sure they would be in a stressful event anyways, and I can see the sight picture well enough to be reasonably accurate. I'm right eye dominant, and the "other" sight picture from my left eye doesn't affect me anymore -- I assume that's through training.

Ultimately though, it's still very difficult to do. It's a large reason why I began using red dot sights last year, and I've never regretted anything other than the cost. People will snort at you and call you "tacticool" and go on and on about how quickly you'll die in a giant fireball when the battery dies. (I've lost a front sight off a gun THREE times over the last few years, but my Trijicon RMR hasn't wandered off zero in almost 12 months of constant usage...)

The biggest advantage of an RDS is that it works *with* your visual system and the way you'll be seeing targets under stress. Once you get the hang of finding the dot inside the window, it really takes care of itself. You just look at the target and see a magical dot appear. In competition shooting, it's improved my ability to transition between targets, and especially from close to far targets, tremendously.

I recently acquired a Walther PPS RMS-c (with a Shield RDS on it) and friggin' love it.

I once ran a drill using a borrowed pistol that had the sights removed. That was weird. All I could do was point at the target and go. And I landed 14/15 shots inside the 8-ring of a standard silhouette target at around 20'. Really surprised myself there. I suspect all of us are more adept at point shooting than we'd expect.

IF there's a potential drawback to an RDS, it's the tendency to want to wait until we see the dot to pull the trigger, even at short distances where point shooting is much faster.
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Old February 24, 2019, 08:20 AM   #19
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I shoot all guns, handgun, rifle (with or without optics) and shotguns, at all ranges with both eyes open. Always have. It's not point shooting, I use the sights and can achieve good accuracy. It is hard for me to comprehend why someone would only want to use one eye.

I can understand guys being cross eye dominate having problems with rifles and shotguns, but a handgun can be held in the middle where it doesn't matter.

The solution to being cross eye dominate is to learn how to shoot from the other side. Lots of folks have done so and found they shot better. It is possible to retrain your body to shoot from either side. Not possible to reprogram your brain to use the non-dominate eye.

The only exception is that I often practice shooting lefty with all my guns. It isn't any different with my handguns. But since I'm right handed, and right eye dominate I do have to close the right eye when shooting long guns from the left side.
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Old February 24, 2019, 09:40 AM   #20
Bartholomew Roberts
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I think a lot depends on your eyesight. I can shoot handguns left or right handed with both eyes open. If I am shooting rifles from my weak side with a scope or open sights, it helps tremendously to close my dominant eye. If I am using a red dot, I can keep my dominant eye open when shooting rifles from my weak side. Red dots are big in enhancing situational awareness since they aid two eye open shooting and allow a target focus.
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Old February 25, 2019, 04:38 PM   #21
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I was thinking about this also, I have done quite a bit of IDPA, with both eyes open, rapid fire looking through the sights, or even over, the sights, and have had some good run times shooting at IDPA sized targets.

Almost point shooting with a flash sight picture

Plates are harder I am more accurate at 15 yards or more, closing or squinting one eye

With both eyes open it slows my times, as I am trying to focus on the dominate eye image.

I would like to keep both eyes open, but havent had much success.


Any tips would be great.
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Old February 25, 2019, 06:46 PM   #22
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I even shoot a scoped rifle long range with both eyes open. Definitely would keep them both open with a pistol at self defense range.
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Old February 25, 2019, 11:47 PM   #23
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People who don't have one eye that is clearly dominant will find shooting with both eyes open to be difficult.
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Old February 26, 2019, 03:41 AM   #24
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Two eyes open doesn't have to be difficult. It's just a matter of practice. An air pistol or even an airsoft pistol can be great for practice.

Point shooting is something else entirely. However, as (un)surprising as it may be, practice is the solution for that as well.
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Old February 26, 2019, 07:43 AM   #25
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Being right handed and having my left eye slightly better than my right, both eyes fully open causes me to shoot to the left. I slightly squint my left eye. Having a drooping brow that already partly occludes my vision, more on the right than the left, requires this.
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