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Old January 8, 2015, 03:41 PM   #76
gunrunner1
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http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...e-Thomas-story)

For those who haven't read it before, the Lance Thomas story makes for some interesting reading about preparing for, engaging in, and surviving a gunfight inside a small store.
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Old January 9, 2015, 06:25 AM   #77
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Lance Thomas, went through a period of little knowledge of firearms, carrying, and using same, in violent altercations with gang members. He did come good!

The interesting conclusion he came too, carrying a good quality 15 round magazine pistol, fully loaded, in a good holster, on his strong side.

And as the FBI have re-discovered, in 9mm.

His experience was real, it happened. There is a message there for we, of the gun carrying crowd... Reliable pistol, lots of rounds, without a reload, learn to use it, carry concealed, and hit what he aimed at. Can't be bad.
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Old January 9, 2015, 07:01 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brit
The interesting conclusion he came too, carrying a good quality 15 round magazine pistol, fully loaded, in a good holster, on his strong side.

And as the FBI have re-discovered, in 9mm.
How did you decide that he came to those conclusions? Do you have any references? From what I understand he never carried a gun on him, never used anything that held over 9 rounds, had one 9mm out of 8 guns, and the only time he grabbed the 9mm P-225 it jammed on him after 3 rounds. But thanks to his prior planning, he had a P-220 .45 within reach.

I would say that the conclusion he came to was to NOT have a gun on him where he might not be able to get to it, but to have a LOT of lower capacity guns within reach. Seems that the same reasoning might have worked out better for the shop owners in the original post.

Seems that his conclusion was to have four SIG 8 or 9 shot semi-automatics (1 in 9mm, 3 in 45 auto) and four revolvers lying around under his counters where he could grab a gun if one was needed, then drop it and grab another one if the one he was using jammed or ran out of ammo.

Doesn't seem real practical for a typical person with a CCW to carry eight weapons on them, but it makes sense in a shop.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...e-Thomas-story)

Last edited by 45_auto; January 9, 2015 at 07:11 AM.
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Old January 9, 2015, 08:55 AM   #79
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Right, he staged guns around his shop. If you read/see the accounts, he isn't drawing a holstered high cap pistol.

The first two fights started with revolvers.

Next to last fight, started with...
Sig P225 in 9mm, 8 rounds,

Last fight, started with...
Sig P220 in .45 acp, 8 rounds and finished with a second Sig P220

Quote:
His experience was real, it happened. There is a message there for we, of the gun carrying crowd.
That message would be...Stage a lot of guns around you.
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Old January 10, 2015, 01:15 AM   #80
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More shooting in gun store, the owner is dead.

http://news.yahoo.com/four-shot-duri...222355573.html
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Old January 10, 2015, 03:41 AM   #81
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I have a question for all those comments about the lady that fired the 5 shots with the J-Frame and how that justified the position of a 15 shot semiautomatic pistol. Since the bad guys broke and ran after the 5 shots from the little J-Frame had the lady had a 15 round semiauto and she kept shooting as they ran, would she be charged with muder since they had clearly broken off the assault ? If so, she really did not need 15 rounds, and it might have only gotten her in trouble.
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Old January 10, 2015, 05:37 AM   #82
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Don't have to shoot them just because you have them.

My guess is that that would have been the time to disengage with 10 left in the mag. Had they not broken off the attack she would not have been left with an empty gun.

My choice of 6-shot snub as a carry gun is heavily influenced by the governing firearms law here, but if those did not apply, I think I'd be going semi-auto compact. In a shop, probably full-size.
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Old January 10, 2015, 10:55 AM   #83
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Quote:
Since the bad guys broke and ran after the 5 shots from the little J-Frame had the lady had a 15 round semiauto and she kept shooting as they ran, would she be charged with muder since they had clearly broken off the assault ?
In many jurisdictions, yes, she would risk some charges. IIRC, there are some jurisdictions (Texas, perhaps?) that consider it justified to fire at a fleeing felon. Being found justified after a long and expensive court fight isn't my goal, though. Get me out of the mess with me and those I care about alive.

I guess that puts me in agent Pond's camp:

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Don't have to shoot them just because you have them.
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Old January 10, 2015, 11:04 AM   #84
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Pawn Shop

@HOOK686; You are correct. As a retired LEO, I assure you that HAD the lady fired a shot and hit the perp in the back, perhaps even to the rear of his side [as he reflexively turned in the split-second after being hit], it could appear [that] she fired as he was running away after breaking off the assault.
It's well that things turned out as they did and everyone was/is safe.
[Monday morning quarterbacks] have the perfect plays and scenarios all figured out without having been in the game in the first place. Given that same situation, I wonder just how many would have had the presence of mind to connect with the same number hits as the lady did.
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Old January 10, 2015, 11:59 AM   #85
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Quote:
I have a question for all those comments about the lady that fired the 5 shots with the J-Frame and how that justified the position of a 15 shot semiautomatic pistol. Since the bad guys broke and ran after the 5 shots from the little J-Frame had the lady had a 15 round semiauto and she kept shooting as they ran, would she be charged with muder since they had clearly broken off the assault ? If so, she really did not need 15 rounds, and it might have only gotten her in trouble.
Depending on state laws, the issue isn't whether or not they have broken off "the assault" but whether or not they still pose a threat. We can rehash the instances where the suspect "clearly broke off the assult" and ran, only to stop and turn and fire again, to which I would argue that there is no clearly broken off assault until the suspect is actually gone (no longer in the immediate area or incapacitated). Then the assault is clearly broken off. Retreating to a better position is not the same thing as breaking off an assault.

Given that the old lady ran out of ammo BEFORE the assault was over, I would say that she definitely could have used more capacity. In fact, after she ran out of ammo, BOTH suspects fired at her. The assault really was not over until both had left the store. If you watch the video, despite one suspect running towards the door, his buddy is pointing and firing toward the old lady. The assault was most definitely still in progress regardless of the direction one guy was running. See the video starting at about 40 seconds.
http://5newsonline.com/2014/12/06/sp...rning-robbery/

Quote:
Given that same situation, I wonder just how many would have had the presence of mind to connect with the same number hits as the lady did.
She connected once in the arm out of 5 shots. I am not sure this is an issue of presence of mind to connect the same number of times, LOL.
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Old January 11, 2015, 05:19 PM   #86
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limp wristing all over the place..

Tip my hat to the lady... she didnt waste any time responding to the threat.
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Old January 13, 2015, 01:07 PM   #87
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If we're all gonna Monday morning QB this thing a decade afterward...

Store was sadly laid out for any defensive tactics. Guess the owners felt as though being "armed" was enough? Big tip of the hat to "grandma". I'm sure she's somebody's grandma. Her actions alone, however "ingloriously perfect" kept herself, her husband, and the clerk alive. Even the perps lived. I'd call that a good outcome. Worthy of admiration. She stood and delivered. What more could you seriously hope for? She clearly was afraid for her life, and faced the attack head on. She was no statistic.

As far as the guys hitting the deck with pocket carry guns... It'd be easy to talk trash. But until you've been shot at, you just don't know how people will react. Some stand and deliver, some hit the deck. Others drop there feces all over and run. Never know until you KNOW.
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Old January 18, 2015, 10:38 AM   #88
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The lady armed with just a simple five shot revolver and probably nil training managed to be the only one to get a hit, thwart the robbery and lead to the ultimate capture of the bad guys.
She could have benefited by 1) having Practiced emergency reloads. She had time behind counter on floor. 2) Carrying a second revolver due to high crime targeting of store and her physical ability to perform a re load on he floor. 3) Having her employees better practiced with drawing their revolvers. Bottom line knowing how to "run" your weapon when the stuff hits the fan.
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Old January 20, 2015, 10:32 AM   #89
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^ yep,at least she got one hit on the perp...I think we all know most people shoot badly under stress,does that mean a hi-cap 9 would work better.?

Spray & pray.?
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