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Old November 16, 1998, 09:19 PM   #26
Ed Brunner
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Join Date: October 11, 1998
Location: Natchez, MS, USA
Posts: 2,562
You have to temper this with some reason and good sense rather than trying to force all situations into one discipline.

If you could stick your pistol in his chest would you fire or would you take three steps back and go for the sight picture?

I have no doubt that Rob can do it without the sights. A lot of people including Bill Jordan could do it very well.

Most people cant.Those who can,probably learned to do it by using the sights and then graduating to the eye-hands-pistol relationship to the target.

A good point shooter isnt winging it he is relying on coordination, His brain knows where the pistol is pointed.

Better days to be,

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Old November 17, 1998, 02:47 PM   #27
Harry Humphries
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Join Date: October 13, 1998
Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Posts: 59
OK let's look at a few facts related to traumatic encounters and revisit the original question.

Without getting involved with mind set and phases of rejection than acceptance towards eventual reaction, we need to be aware of the effects of hormonal or adrenalin dumps to the blood stream.

Most of us go through life with a heart rate of 60 - 80 beats per minute. While exercising or going through physically demanding competition, we'll experience an increase to 115 to 120 bpm. If we're in relatively decent shape we are still capable of mentally and physically performing with all faculties still in tact.

This changes for hormonal induced heart rate increases resulting from sympathetic nervous system arousal. At 115 bpm fine motor skills deteriorate. At 145 bpm complex motor skills deteriorate. At 175 bpm cognitive processing deteriorates accompanied by loss of peripheral vision, loss of depth perception, loss of near vision and auditory exclusion. Above 175 bpm irrational fighting or fleeing, freezing, submissive behavior, vasoconstriction, voiding from bladder and bowels occur, but gross motor skills are heightened to unbelievable levels.

These facts come from Lt. Col Dave Grossman's "The Psychological Preparation for Combat, Killing, and Death." Secondly, short of the voiding of bladder and bowels, I personally have experienced these phenomena at one time or another during combat situations although I was not aware of my specific heart rates. Trust me guys in the real deal things change from the practice range.

Another point of consideration is the work done by Dr. Fackler and other well founded Law Enforcement statistical studies. In general there was corroboration throughout all studies of officer involved shooting incidents within the US. Some 80% occurs within 10 feet, 70% within 7 feet. And almost always in low light situations. The exact percentages may vary from year to year but generally stay in this area. Last but not least is the fact that the successful hit ratio enjoyed by the officers involved is less than 25% more like 19%. Again these numbers close to study results.

Given the above it is safe to say that the shoot will occur within a very close distance, contact to 10 feet, and probably in low light. Further to that, the shooter will be traumatically taken by surprise experiencing a high dose of adrenalin which will essentially shut down his fine and complex motor skills, blind him to peripheral vision and render him temporarily deaf. - Now how do we train?

It is my belief that a sound combat hand gun training program considers the worst possible situation, close in and taken by surprise, it must condition or habituate a reflexive response within the trainee so as to initially deal with this type of encounter while continuing the presentation through to an effective means of delivering accurate shots at allowable distances. Whatever the technique it can not require a time consuming decision process the technique must be universally sound for contact presentation as well as from the comfort of ten to fifteen feet from cover. Folks that train against paper or plate or pin balls must remember that the close in fight has an inherent danger- the targets are charging and grabbing at your gun and are either on mind altering drugs or under the super human strength of the adrenalin cocktail.

The modern technique as developed by Jeff Cooper, Jack Weaver, verses point shooting really doesn't warrant conversation - it works provided the presentation is allowed to be made in full. Thus the presentation should include a retention block during the grip and draw phase while coming on to the full presentation be it to a weaver, modified weaver, isosceles, etc. The front sight is acquired as a flash sight picture as quickly as possible before or after the surprise break. This ladder point is where the point shooters fail to understand the system. While the initial phases of front site discipline instruction requires a look at the front site prior to press, the accomplished modern technique shooter often sees the front sight after the shot as a confirmation of point of aim. Yes one could say that is momentary point shooting but it includes the rapid acquisition of the front sight for the immediate second controlled shot while the point shooter, if truly a point shooter, will not acquire the front site for the rapid execution of the second controlled shot. Especially under stress..

What we habituate through training is what we will do under stress, there is very little thinking or decision processing going on under the traumatic encounter. If one doesn't train a behavior pattern, the debilitating effects of the adrenalin cocktail will cause them to do nothing- just die.

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