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February 2, 2011, 10:43 PM | #1 |
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Developing Your Pet Load. It Isn't That Hard.
Years ago when Winchester Super Lite powder came out and was advertised as the cleanest burning powder I switched from my favorite 12 ga load to WSL. It was true, this stuff was really clean burning and I thought it would be great if this worked in some of my handgun loads. Alas there was no loading data for WSL for handguns so I carefully examined numerous shotgun powders close to the same burn rate that did work in the calibers I wanted to load for and after much research jumped in to develop my handgun loads with WSL. This was totally trial and error. Thankfully the errors were limited to a non cycling semi-auto and some really light loads in the revolver and I never stuck a bullet in the barrel.
Bullet seating depth was easy. Use whatever it took to work. Primers were whatever I had on hand. I did start out with some good sorted cases but mfg stamp wasn’t considered. Working my way up I found the sweet spots for both handguns, loaded and shot quite a few with no ill results. Maybe I was just lucky but I think knowing a lot about reloading by that time, I was making fairly good educated guesses. Eventually the reloading manuals caught up with me and the published data and my data were almost exactly alike. One manual actually listed powder charges slightly higher than mine but I already knew that was too high in my gun so I was completely satisfied. I have since done this with other cartridges with similar results. Sometimes the manuals never list the powder I found to be excellent in some of my loads. No manual can possibly list all the combinations that will work safely and reloaders miss out on some excellent loads by not experimenting. Without some of us experimenting today’s and tomorrow’s shooters would be missing out on some very fine cartridges. WSL has been discontinued and I have almost used my last grain so I switched to another powder that also doesn’t have a lot of published data. There is some but mostly not with the bullets and primers I use. At least this time I didn’t have to start completely from scratch. Maybe next time I will again have the joy of developing my perfect pet load and beating everyone else to the punch. Last edited by k4swb; February 4, 2011 at 09:43 AM. |
February 3, 2011, 08:23 PM | #2 |
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I note this post has received no responses in almost 24 hours. I am not surprised.
The procedure described here seems to run crossways with the spirit of a lot of the advice given on this board. That spirit seems to me to be along the lines of "BE CAREFUL AND DON'T HURT YOURSELF" :-) Recently I was reading some Usenet archives found here. I was struck by the near total lack of "DON'T DO THAT YOU MIGHT HURT YOURSELF" in any of the threads listed. Granted, these are excerpts, but still the attitude of the folks posting seemed less...I don't know...rigid...than some around here. Don't get me wrong; I have received good advice here. But I have also seen a lot of finger shaking. Just an observation. k4swb I agree with you wholeheartedly. "Without some of us experimenting today’s and tomorrow’s shooters would be missing out on some very fine cartridges." -cls |
February 3, 2011, 08:49 PM | #3 |
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Online powder maker websites are more up-to-date than manuals as they are instantaneous and printed once a year - if it isn't in there, you could always call and ask - I have and they are more than happy to discuss load data with you
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February 3, 2011, 08:57 PM | #4 |
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"I note this post has received no responses in almost 24 hours. I am not surprised."
Well, there really isn't much to say about it, is there? |
February 3, 2011, 09:10 PM | #5 |
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Maybe not any replies but as I write this there have been 92 reads. Maybe I have given some people something to think about and getting people to think was my goal.
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February 4, 2011, 05:57 AM | #6 |
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k4swb,
Your post is in line with what most wildcatters usually do at some point in their rotation through the different ideas they come up with. You have a case capacity of "X" amount, a bore diameter of "X" amount and you use a bullet weight which is practical for the application. Then you cross reference the powder data for similar calibers and case sizes to get a base line of powders which might work withing a certain burn characteristic. Once there the charge weights are cross referenced and extrapolated to coincide along with the other calibers with similar case capacities. Once there you start dumping powder on the low end and work up inspecting and measuring the cases and looking for something promising with the groups. In similar fashion instead of weighing up individual charge weights of powder, I use the start and max loads, measured, weighed, and recorded, to go to the range with 20 cases and work up my loads. I throw the charges using a measure instead of weighing out each individual charge. Once I hit a likely load I record the setting on my measure and when I get home I then weigh it and work from there. This might to many seem like something out of a mad chemist diary, but BR shooters do it every week, with no vastly reported ill effects other than maybe a bad match. I understand your theory and your thought process very well. The key is keeping the newbee's heads in the manuals until they have enough grasp on the concept to understand what their looking at when it presents itself. |
February 4, 2011, 07:15 AM | #7 |
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Give em a call !!
I`ve called Hodgdon on a couple of my brainstorms & they recommended against the projects I`d thought up & gave me reasons why !!
Alot of shotgun powders get unpredictable & spiky when confined in a smaller case/chamber & a rifled barrel !!! Hodgdon has more pressure equipment than I & they take the time to explain some things ,so I tend to heed there words of wisdom !! Information is a wonderful thing , but we have to wade thru a bunch sometimes to reach correct info !!! Now , not to discredit what k4swb has done , answered the callin of experimentation in handloading ! & the load may work for yrs. & thousands of rounds in "HIS" fire arm & here it comes - - - - even heat treated steel work hardens & breaks & usually not good when it does !!! Be Safe & Enjoy !!
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February 4, 2011, 08:19 AM | #8 |
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As the saying goes, "paragraphs are your friend". While there do appear to be technical paragraphs in the original post, the lack of spaces between the paragraphs makes the post extremely difficult to read.
That's my wagging finger.... |
February 4, 2011, 08:36 AM | #9 |
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If all loading components were banned and no longer available then an argument could be made to use what ever you had at hand and hoped like he!! nothing bad happened. Until then I will do what I've done for 45 years and follow the up to date reloading manuals that the bullet and powder industry provides and call that good! William
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February 4, 2011, 09:43 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
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February 4, 2011, 09:52 AM | #11 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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February 4, 2011, 10:27 AM | #12 |
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This is one of my setups to make the process faster.
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February 4, 2011, 10:46 AM | #13 |
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You use a progressive press to make load development at the shooting range faster?!
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February 4, 2011, 10:57 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
I don't do it for speed, I do it so I don't have to load so many test rounds that may not work and then be torn down. On second thought, I guess that does speed things up. I've alwaysed enjoyed looking at others range loading techniques. |
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February 4, 2011, 12:04 PM | #15 |
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I certainly see no reason, for others, to experiment and come up with different loads and to share their data...but I won't be doing it. (Testing, that is.)
It keeps my face on my face better when I stick to proven (whether published or unpublished but tested) loads. |
February 4, 2011, 12:22 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
I can work up loads using 4 different powders with 3 different bullet weights to meet a given PF in under 2 hours. |
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February 4, 2011, 01:21 PM | #17 | |
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Quote:
I agree that many others should never stray from published loads and some should never relaod at all. My loads are tested and proven to me and that is what I'm after. I don't give out the data for something I'm playing with and don't load that recipe for others but it is very satisfying if someone asks what I'm shooting and I give them the general info and thay say, "that's interesting. I didn't know that powder would even work for that." And yes, it sometimes clears out the area next to me and gives me some added elbow room. |
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February 4, 2011, 03:53 PM | #18 |
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For more clarity, what I meant by my last line was that I'm glad there are people willing to experiment and share their PROVEN loads but I'm not one of them because I just don't have that confidence.
I only use published book loads or loads that have been proven to work by someone knowledgeable. |
February 4, 2011, 05:43 PM | #19 |
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Amen fox. I've been running circles on the net trying to find a good starting point for some 45-70 heavy bullet loads with reloader 7. Finally made a batch today... If I don't post again you know what happened....
Good post btw, I read it but didn't have $.02 to throw in on it. I can only hope that 1 day I will have so much experience the force grows strong enough in me that I too could experiment like that. Until then, I'm riding coat-tails.
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February 4, 2011, 06:30 PM | #20 | |
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Interesting Post
Quote:
Told him that I was fairly certain I had done used a good min to max range, then asked him what powder did he use - yep, as soon as he told me his powder, I knew his stuff was significantly faster than my powder, BECAUSE, I HAD STUDIED several burn rate charts. I grabbed my 3 ring binder and showed him the difference. I also take note that you worked your way up - started on the low end.
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February 4, 2011, 09:11 PM | #21 |
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You are at the range with your first ever loads and you've never yet even pulled the trigger ONCE -- while he is at the range with his handloads and he has been reloading for some amount of time.
Without even knowing what powder you are using, and/or not recognizing it as the same powder he is using, he looks at your charge weight and tells you that your loads are too hot?! Only to find that he's using a different powder? Guess who is the better handloader? I'm sure your ammo went off without a hitch!
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Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
February 5, 2011, 06:57 AM | #22 | |||
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Quote:
I understand this is a national/international board with many different skill levels represented. Some topics of discussion may not be appropriate to the skill level of some of the readers, however, that's up to the individual reader to decide. When an obviously unsafe practice is posted, sure; I believe it should be addressed. I believe we have the obligation to keep the forum safe, but registering concerns about unsafe practices doesn't mean saying "you're gonna blow yourself up" everytime anyone posts something slightly out of the ordinary. Quote:
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If everyone jumps on folks for trying something new, then they stop posting those types of things and all we are left with is "should I use corn or walnut in my tumbler". Kinda makes it boring place to hang around, no?
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February 5, 2011, 10:03 AM | #23 | |
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Quote:
When posting these things I try to never give hard data because I feel that my tests are not for everyone and not everyone is at the stage in the hobby they should even attempt these things. I also believe that it is good to let people have things to think about beyond which 1911 to buy. |
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