Figuring out the Thumbs Forward grip...

Pops1085 · May 11, 2018, 01:26 PM

So I must be missing something here, I've watched a lot of tutorials about the thumbs forward grip and I've got some issues. The main one that I do a lot and see others doing is having to readjust their support hand grip from shot to shot. How does one prevent this?

Another thing that I haven't encountered but I commonly see is people accidentally engaging the slide lock (both ways, locking open or causing slide to fail to lock open) I feel like the reason for this is partly due to the way the guns were designed back in the day. The controls were set up for people to just shoot one handed, tea cuping, or crossed thumbs. It's just a training issue I know but nonetheless a thought I've had.

For fun yesterday, I shot with the old "revolver grip", thumbs crossed and noticed how much more solid my grip felt, no readjusting at all, and while I'm sure there was more flip, I couldn't tell.

mete · May 11, 2018, 01:57 PM

All your shooting styles , grips etc, are to be adjusted for YOU , not anyone else !

Cheapshooter · May 11, 2018, 02:00 PM

Quote:

So I must be missing something here

Yes s, you are. You are missing the fact that you should shoot how it feels good to you. Not how some internet, or TV self proclaimed "expert" says you should.
#1 important thing. Are you hitting what you are aiming at with a grip that feels right to you?

jimbob86 · May 11, 2018, 02:10 PM

Quote:

For fun yesterday, I shot with the old "revolver grip", thumbs crossed

If you ever do this with a 1911, it will not be fun. Not at all. Unless you are into bleeding .....

Sharkbite · May 11, 2018, 02:23 PM

Quote:

The main one that I do a lot and see others doing is having to readjust their support hand grip from shot to shot

Hmmm... something isnt right with your grip then. The advantage of this grip is the ability to get maximum meat on the pistol and PREVENT movement.

RickB · May 11, 2018, 02:37 PM

Exactly; by raising the strong-hand thumb high on the frame, you're creating about four times the available space for your weak hand to grasp the frame, compared to a thumb-down grip.

You might be right that your "weak" hand isn't losing its grip, but that's because your weak hand is mostly along for the ride.
Properly done, the two-thumbs-forward grip is splitting grip strength close to 50/50 between the hands, so you shouldn't be losing your weak-hand grip any more than you'd lose your strong-hand grip.

As for fouling the slide stop . . . can't help, because I'm a lefty.

I shoot all handguns the same way; big, small, auto, revo, the strong hand rides as high as possible, to open as much room as possible for the weak hand to balance the grip.

Pops1085 · May 11, 2018, 08:44 PM

Sorry, this was what I meant by crossed thumbs, not where you cross the support hand thumb BEHIND the slide, that would suck.

sigarms228 · May 11, 2018, 09:58 PM

Though I will never argue with whatever grip works for someone else, I really like the thumbs forward grip. IMO if someones hand is coming loose after every shot they may not be doing it quite right. Personally I use a stronger grip with my support hand than my primary grip hand and I concentrate grip pressure front to back on the pistol grip with my primary hand pinching it into the back of my hand rather than a monkey grip on it. I also use a slight push/pull tension with a two hand pistol grip pushing the pistol forward with my primary hand and pulling back with my support hand. Ernest Langdon talks about that technique in the last minute of his video in the last link below though the whole video is worth watching.

Here are a a few videos that go into more detail on the thumbs forward grip that may help. The second one by Travis Haley talks about "setting the pin" as he calls it when using the grip on a pistol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz4HFTW22ok -- Travis Haley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTLi6_96t1o -- Travis Haley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJrA7wMXuuQ -- Shannon Smith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VP4X6FVa4E -- Ernest Langdon

K_Mac · May 12, 2018, 09:33 AM

As has been said, there is something wrong with your grip if you are having to adjust while shooting. I resisted changing to a thumbs forward grip for years. When I finally decided to give it an honest effort, I learned I too am able to shoot faster and more accurately with it. It may not be for everyone, but all of the best shooters I know use it.

Bob Wright · May 12, 2018, 06:59 PM

I have always held to the premise that the shooter concentrate on the basics, i.e. sight alignment and trigger control, and everything else will evolve into place for that shooter.

Bob Wright

**44 AMP** · May 13, 2018, 12:24 PM

No matter if its sights, trigger, or grip, if you hit your target where you intended to hit your target, its not "wrong".

Maybe there are different techniques that you could learn to be more efficient, or more effective, maybe not. That part depends on you.

Thumbs "forward" is the current rage, if it works for you, great. other things have been espoused before, and I'm sure will be in the future.

Some time back a fellow tried to convince me the "right" way was to shoot with a high thumb. Some of what I shoot will injure you if you do that. He didn't shoot anything that would, so a high thumb was the "right" way (and the only right way, he thought...)

One time a fellow told me that the right way to shoot my SA revolvers was with a thumb on the recoil shield. That wasn't even remotely the right way for me...

If you hit your mark, don't get bit, don't lose control of the gun, how can it be "wrong"???

A different style that "gets hits better / faster" only works, if YOU can do it. If so, great. But if you can't, if it doesn't provide you, personally, with measurably superior results, don't use it just to be a slave to fashion, so to speak.

All that really matters is that YOU, personally are happy with the way you shoot, and the results you get.

str8tshot · May 13, 2018, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pops1085

Sorry, this was what I meant by crossed thumbs, not where you cross the support hand thumb BEHIND the slide, that would suck.

You likely have a fair gap between your off hand and the frame. The lack of contact will cause the gun to move in that direction more than the thumbs forward grip. Reducing side movement helps with faster follow up shots, which may not be a concern for you.
Others have said shoot with a grip that is comfortable, and that is reasonable advice. The more aggressive thumbs forward grip may not be something you care to spend time perfecting. I will say I have not seen any of the faster, more accurate competitors with whom I shoot use a cross thumbs grip. My experience may be different than others.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RickB · May 14, 2018, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Thumbs "forward" is the current rage

I would have described it that way 25-30 years ago; today, it's the standard.
I started shooting USPSA in 1997, had been diligently practicing my two-thumbs-up, "Cooper Combat Hold" diligently for a few years, but noticed right away that everyone who was beating me used the TTF grip.

Theohazard · May 16, 2018, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pops1085

Another thing that I haven't encountered but I commonly see is people accidentally engaging the slide lock (both ways, locking open or causing slide to fail to lock open)

I had this problem when I first switched to the thumb-forward grip: on some guns my right thumb would ride the slide stop and the slide wouldn’t lock back on the last shot. I fixed this by simply moving my right thumb away from the gun and resting it along the base of my support thumb. It’s still a thumbs-forward grip, it’s just one where my right thumb doesn’t touch the gun and therefore doesn’t rest on the slide stop.

Sharkbite · May 16, 2018, 06:28 PM

Quote:

As long as you have good trigger control and a good sight picture, you can hold it upside down and sideways.

Uhhh...no

While that may work for one shot, when you are striving to fire mtpl shots as fast as possible (3-4shots a second) a solid grip is a key

Theohazard · May 16, 2018, 07:05 PM

This ^^^

The thumbs-forward grip is the best grip technique for recoil control with most semi-auto pistols. And controlling recoil does two main things: It allows for faster and more accurate follow-up shots, and it lowers the chances of stoppages due to the gun moving too much (“limp-wristing”).

There’s a reason why the thumbs-forward grip is virtually universal in the training community.

K_Mac · May 16, 2018, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Whatever works best for you is "correct." As long as you have good trigger control and a good sight picture, you can hold it upside down and sideways.

Insisting that trigger control and sight picture are the only important elements in defensive shooting misses the bigger picture. Many internet experts are confident that fast, accurate shots are not necessary and are convinced one well placed bullet is all that will be needed. I don't know any credible source that would agree. Being able to shoot quickly and accurately is a vital part of defensive shooting, and that can only be done with a solid, repeatable grip. I don't give a rip what anyone else uses, but dismissing the thumbs forward grip as the current rage when virtually all the best shooters use it doesn't really do justice to how good it is. If someone comes up with something better I will learn that. Post a corroborating video and I'll give it a try!

WVsig · May 18, 2018, 04:45 PM

If you look at this video from Earnest Langdon which sigarms228 already linked to is great. This link starts exactly where he starts to talk about grip.

https://youtu.be/5VP4X6FVa4E?t=7m10s

Then watch this one from Bob Vogel.

https://youtu.be/45QhpvY9LZc

Both are telling the shooter to get your dominate hand as high as possible without impeding function. You then want "Strong" grip pressure. You need to be as strong as you can without it shaking. Too many people grip the pistol with too a weak grip. Your off hand is the same. As high as you can without impeding the function of the gun.

To the OP look at how you are holding the gun. Too much of your off hand is on your other hand not in contact with the gun. The off hand is how you will control recoil. If you are not in contact with the gun you cannot control it. You should be 60%+ grip pressure with the weak hand. When people are readjusting their off hand between shots its because they are not gripping the gun hard enough. We often call the off hand the weak hand for a reason. It is for most people not as strong as their dominate hand. As a result to get to a 60% grip pressure from the off hand you have to grip is a lot harder than people think. Most shooters don't apply enough pressure and as a result their off hand moves.

This is not the only way to shoot but it is IMHO the most efficient. If you do not have proper grip with enough grip pressure you will not be able to control the gun at speed. You might be able to shoot accurately slow fire but once you get to a pace of even 1 shot per second in a string of say 10 you will not be able to control the recoil of the gun well with the grip you are displaying.

bamaranger · May 20, 2018, 08:58 PM

I understand "thumbs forward", it seems more steady, but when the buzzer goes off, I usually end up overlapped thumbs (as in the HP pic) like I always have. If I manage to pull it off (thumbs forward) I'll revert overlapped at a reload.

Old dog, old habits. Using two different grip techniques, not so good. I've resolved to plow on overlapped as before, overlapped.

May 11, 2018, 01:57 PM	#2
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	All your shooting styles , grips etc, are to be adjusted for YOU , not anyone else ! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

May 11, 2018, 02:37 PM	#6
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Exactly; by raising the strong-hand thumb high on the frame, you're creating about four times the available space for your weak hand to grasp the frame, compared to a thumb-down grip. You might be right that your "weak" hand isn't losing its grip, but that's because your weak hand is mostly along for the ride. Properly done, the two-thumbs-forward grip is splitting grip strength close to 50/50 between the hands, so you shouldn't be losing your weak-hand grip any more than you'd lose your strong-hand grip. As for fouling the slide stop . . . can't help, because I'm a lefty. I shoot all handguns the same way; big, small, auto, revo, the strong hand rides as high as possible, to open as much room as possible for the weak hand to balance the grip. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

May 11, 2018, 09:58 PM	#8
sigarms228 Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2011 Posts: 1,768	Though I will never argue with whatever grip works for someone else, I really like the thumbs forward grip. IMO if someones hand is coming loose after every shot they may not be doing it quite right. Personally I use a stronger grip with my support hand than my primary grip hand and I concentrate grip pressure front to back on the pistol grip with my primary hand pinching it into the back of my hand rather than a monkey grip on it. I also use a slight push/pull tension with a two hand pistol grip pushing the pistol forward with my primary hand and pulling back with my support hand. Ernest Langdon talks about that technique in the last minute of his video in the last link below though the whole video is worth watching. Here are a a few videos that go into more detail on the thumbs forward grip that may help. The second one by Travis Haley talks about "setting the pin" as he calls it when using the grip on a pistol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz4HFTW22ok -- Travis Haley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTLi6_96t1o -- Travis Haley https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJrA7wMXuuQ -- Shannon Smith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VP4X6FVa4E -- Ernest Langdon __________________ “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.” ― Benjamin Franklin Last edited by sigarms228; May 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM.

May 12, 2018, 09:33 AM	#9
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	As has been said, there is something wrong with your grip if you are having to adjust while shooting. I resisted changing to a thumbs forward grip for years. When I finally decided to give it an honest effort, I learned I too am able to shoot faster and more accurately with it. It may not be for everyone, but all of the best shooters I know use it. __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

May 12, 2018, 06:59 PM	#10
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	I have always held to the premise that the shooter concentrate on the basics, i.e. sight alignment and trigger control, and everything else will evolve into place for that shooter. Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

May 11, 2018, 01:26 PM	#1
Pops1085 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Posts: 369	Figuring out the Thumbs Forward grip... So I must be missing something here, I've watched a lot of tutorials about the thumbs forward grip and I've got some issues. The main one that I do a lot and see others doing is having to readjust their support hand grip from shot to shot. How does one prevent this? Another thing that I haven't encountered but I commonly see is people accidentally engaging the slide lock (both ways, locking open or causing slide to fail to lock open) I feel like the reason for this is partly due to the way the guns were designed back in the day. The controls were set up for people to just shoot one handed, tea cuping, or crossed thumbs. It's just a training issue I know but nonetheless a thought I've had. For fun yesterday, I shot with the old "revolver grip", thumbs crossed and noticed how much more solid my grip felt, no readjusting at all, and while I'm sure there was more flip, I couldn't tell.

May 11, 2018, 08:44 PM	#7
Pops1085 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Posts: 369	Sorry, this was what I meant by crossed thumbs, not where you cross the support hand thumb BEHIND the slide, that would suck.

May 13, 2018, 12:24 PM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	No matter if its sights, trigger, or grip, if you hit your target where you intended to hit your target, its not "wrong". Maybe there are different techniques that you could learn to be more efficient, or more effective, maybe not. That part depends on you. Thumbs "forward" is the current rage, if it works for you, great. other things have been espoused before, and I'm sure will be in the future. Some time back a fellow tried to convince me the "right" way was to shoot with a high thumb. Some of what I shoot will injure you if you do that. He didn't shoot anything that would, so a high thumb was the "right" way (and the only right way, he thought...) One time a fellow told me that the right way to shoot my SA revolvers was with a thumb on the recoil shield. That wasn't even remotely the right way for me... If you hit your mark, don't get bit, don't lose control of the gun, how can it be "wrong"??? A different style that "gets hits better / faster" only works, if YOU can do it. If so, great. But if you can't, if it doesn't provide you, personally, with measurably superior results, don't use it just to be a slave to fashion, so to speak. All that really matters is that YOU, personally are happy with the way you shoot, and the results you get. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 16, 2018, 07:05 PM	#16
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	This ^^^ The thumbs-forward grip is the best grip technique for recoil control with most semi-auto pistols. And controlling recoil does two main things: It allows for faster and more accurate follow-up shots, and it lowers the chances of stoppages due to the gun moving too much (“limp-wristing”). There’s a reason why the thumbs-forward grip is virtually universal in the training community. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

May 18, 2018, 04:45 PM	#18
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	If you look at this video from Earnest Langdon which sigarms228 already linked to is great. This link starts exactly where he starts to talk about grip. https://youtu.be/5VP4X6FVa4E?t=7m10s Then watch this one from Bob Vogel. https://youtu.be/45QhpvY9LZc Both are telling the shooter to get your dominate hand as high as possible without impeding function. You then want "Strong" grip pressure. You need to be as strong as you can without it shaking. Too many people grip the pistol with too a weak grip. Your off hand is the same. As high as you can without impeding the function of the gun. To the OP look at how you are holding the gun. Too much of your off hand is on your other hand not in contact with the gun. The off hand is how you will control recoil. If you are not in contact with the gun you cannot control it. You should be 60%+ grip pressure with the weak hand. When people are readjusting their off hand between shots its because they are not gripping the gun hard enough. We often call the off hand the weak hand for a reason. It is for most people not as strong as their dominate hand. As a result to get to a 60% grip pressure from the off hand you have to grip is a lot harder than people think. Most shooters don't apply enough pressure and as a result their off hand moves. This is not the only way to shoot but it is IMHO the most efficient. If you do not have proper grip with enough grip pressure you will not be able to control the gun at speed. You might be able to shoot accurately slow fire but once you get to a pace of even 1 shot per second in a string of say 10 you will not be able to control the recoil of the gun well with the grip you are displaying. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

May 20, 2018, 08:58 PM	#19
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,312	understand I understand "thumbs forward", it seems more steady, but when the buzzer goes off, I usually end up overlapped thumbs (as in the HP pic) like I always have. If I manage to pull it off (thumbs forward) I'll revert overlapped at a reload. Old dog, old habits. Using two different grip techniques, not so good. I've resolved to plow on overlapped as before, overlapped.