Will we ever see a resurgence in steel?? - Page 2

TruthTellers · August 16, 2017, 12:28 PM

I think a better question is: will we ever see a departure from polymer?

Steel is fine for a collection or a target/competition gun, but for any defense use, steel is heavy to carry while polymer is light and doesn't rust. If there's going to be a change from polymer, it won't be to steel, it will be to harder non-ferrous metals like Scandium or aircraft aluminum or, what seems to be gaining a lot of interest now, Magnesium.

Polymer is just easy to make and cheap. Unless there's a drastic increase of using 3D printing in manufacturing, the metals I listed above will have to be cast/forged, then machined, and finished. That's a lot of time and money and I don't think it's something the majority of people in a future where jobs will be scarce from lack of work thanks to automation and robots and AI taking their old jobs that they'll have the money to pay for that higher cost.

Carmady · August 16, 2017, 03:25 PM

Aluminum barrels and polymer bullets.

rock185 · August 16, 2017, 03:38 PM

Don't think there will be a resurgence of steel. I think it will go the other way. Manufacturers will continue to look for ways to undercut the competition. Soon as they can perfect reinforced paper mache for the frames, and recycled eyeglass frames, or some such, for the other components, that's what we'll have. People will extol the virtues of the new, modern, paper mache pistols. They are so much better and lighter than those old Glocks, XDs, M&Ps,etc. And, MSRP will only be about only $23.25, but CDNN will have them for $18.69, with a free Chinese weapon light

cslinger · August 16, 2017, 07:55 PM

I have no problem with polymer guns. I just think it is a shame we are moving towards that point where they are the far in away most available option. There is something about a steel gun. I mean hell I like guns all of em. So I am fairly covered, but there is something of romance and soul in a well machined metal firearm.

Doc Holliday 1950 · August 16, 2017, 09:50 PM

I like the feel of steel & I also like Poly. I might be crazy but as long as everything works like it should, I don't really care. Yes, I lust after my 66 327 Chevy
but that's long gone like chocolate flavor straws and Imperial yo yo's that glow in the dark when you spin them. Se La Vie!

CajunBass · August 17, 2017, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carmady

Doubt it, but in 30 or 40 years shooters who are young now will be waxing poetical about the good ol' days when "plastic was plastic, and not this new crap they've come out with."

I wish we had a "like" button. I'd hit it twice.

arquebus357 · August 17, 2017, 06:58 AM

I'm late in this polymer pistol era. Just picked up a Ruger American Compact. I very much like this pistol except for perverted Glock like trigger "safety" blade. I believe the metal drop in fire group into a polymer frame is a very practical design. Why haul around all the extra weight of steel if you don't need it.

I'm not what you would call a shooter so I don't have all those problems associated with holding and firing a handgun. Some write-ups sound more like the story of the "Princess and the Pea" than a gun review.

rep1954 · August 17, 2017, 08:48 AM

"Will we ever see a resurgence in steel??"

No but you will see a surge in metal gun collectors. I'm sure prices will soar.

K_Mac · August 17, 2017, 09:59 AM

I agree that longing for the 'good ole days' and the associated material things is part of the human condition. I also don't think all steel handguns are going anywhere soon. That doesn't mean they are ever going to compete with the today's polymer offerings or the materials of the future though. Just like vinyl records and tube amps or muscle cars with naturally aspirated big block V8s with points ignition systems, many of us will remember them fondly and maybe even own a few. We will listen to digitally produced music and drive modern vehicles though...

Screwball · August 17, 2017, 11:25 AM

There are still steel guns out there, but I don't think we will ever go back to them being a mainstay. Too heavy, and I think the military's movement to the P320 was the death nail for most alloy framed contracts.

Polymer isn't bad, as long as the quality is there. Crappy polymer is just as bad as crappy alloy. You don't see widespread issues with most manufacturers because of the amount of time these have already been in the firearms market.

I love my CZ SP-01, as well as my S&W 1006. They are great pistols, and likely will never sell them... but I don't carry them.

pete2 · August 17, 2017, 08:11 PM

Plastic guns are popular because: A, they are cheaper
B, Gaston Glock is a great salesman

osbornk · August 17, 2017, 08:59 PM

I don't think steel guns will return any more than I think the heavy all steel cars and heavy TVs with glass picture tubes will return. Light, efficient, more reliable and cheaper is today's reality. My light and efficient half plastic car and my LED/LCD TVs are far more efficient and reliable than those in the "good old days" and my polymer guns never fail me. I even bought a Mossberg Blaze 47 rifle with a polymer receiver that has been flawless and the entire gun weighs just over 4 pounds.

My favorite gun to shoot is an all steel 1911 but when I carry, it is always a polymer gun.

Onward Allusion · August 17, 2017, 09:42 PM

As likely as rear-wheel-drive making a comeback in the consumer auto industry.

Independent George · August 18, 2017, 10:02 AM

Steel will always be around, but it's pretty much done in the duty/carry category due to weight and cost.

For range use, that weight is actually a boon because of the way it soaks up recoil.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

ShootistPRS · August 18, 2017, 05:03 PM

There are a number of guns that are made and sold that are all steel. I don't believe that the all steel gun is ever going away. Yes, there are some advantages to plastic in guns and there will likely be new plastics designed that will make frames more durable. There may even be ceramics that can be used for barrels and the common steel parts in guns now but all steel guns will be around when people want to buy them.

tipoc · August 19, 2017, 02:03 AM

Quote:

"Will we ever see a resurgence in steel??"

Sure, you see that now.

tipoc

PT-92 · August 31, 2017, 01:05 PM

I think it's analogous 'print media' vs. 'online media' consumption...Some people still prefer the feel of a 'paper newspaper and or magazine' as opposed to same being had electronically via phone, tablet, comp, etc...Same applies to a Browning Hi Power, S&W 686 vs. a Glock 19 or LCR or some variation thereof... Of course, one's age may be a predominant factor in this equation?

**OldMarksman** · August 31, 2017, 01:47 PM

Most unlikely.

Aside from cost and weight, the design of products that must be manufactured by removing metal or casting it or forging involves certain other limitations on the end product. Sam Colt and John Browning were able to do fantastic things with what they had, but the FN 509, Glock, and others of their ilk could not have been made then.

Differences are manifested in parts count and nuances of geometry.

Everyone is lamenting the demise of the Browning HP, which was a legend in its time, but I'll wager that objective customers would choose the 509 every day of the week.

tipoc · August 31, 2017, 03:04 PM

This all depends on what question is being asked.

Why does anyone still make revolvers? Why single action revolvers?

It's because there is a market for them.

So why pistols made of steel and aluminum alloys? Why don't they all disappear now?

Because there is a large market for them.

There is no doubt that polymer framed guns, long and short will increasingly dominate, as they do now, the military and law enforcement arenas. Their utility and greatly lower costs of production make that a given. It's why the question is even raised, because it's a fact now. But that fact does not mean that metal framed guns will receded into oblivion.

Metal framed gun are doing just fine at present and will do that for the foreseeable future. There share of the market may decline some.

Will polymer framed AR's and pistols disappear and metal and wood long guns again become dominant? No that won't happen. But that also doesn't mean that AKs will disappear inside of 5 years and Marlin leverguns in 45/70 or 30/30 will cease production in 2020 either.

CZ is going to continue selling both it's metal and poly sidearms for a long time. They've been doing well despite the downturn.

tipoc

ShootistPRS · August 31, 2017, 03:31 PM

I think the real question is what material will replace the polymers that they are currently using. Steel guns are going to be around for a very long time because people like me like the steel.

tipoc · September 3, 2017, 01:20 PM

Another way of looking at it is this...Ford began mass producing gas powered automobiles and trucks in 1903. Within 2-3 decades the horsedrawn wagon was sidelined and all but gone (some use in agriculture, and carriage rides, etc.).

It's been over 50 years since the AR was introduced and over 30 since the Glock. And still...

tipoc

JoeSixpack · September 3, 2017, 07:08 PM

And over a 100 years for 1911.. and look how many "me too" brands make them.

It's almost easier to name the ones that don't.

jetinteriorguy · September 4, 2017, 10:46 AM

In my own experience I have a fair amount of both, polymer for carry and practice. But for any serious range shooting I'm really loving the steel/all metal guns. All my revolvers are steel, and I have an all steel FEG HiPower clone,an all metal CZ 75B SA, and an all steel Star in 9mm. Other than my P07, my polymers are pretty good for me to 7 yds, the P07 is good out to 15 yds no problem. But all my steel/metal guns are much better once you get beyond 10yds for me.

thibaultfelix40 · September 11, 2017, 04:15 AM

It is not the guns, it's the parts. What is the best material for this one part under consideration. I don't forsee plastic barrels with steel stocks.

ARqueen15 · September 11, 2017, 05:12 AM

I enjoy shooting steel and was quite fond of my cz75. I'd even consider a 1911 if good ones weren't as pricey as they are. The aesthetics and history of a 19 11 or browning hi power tug as strong as ever.

However I never enjoyed carrying the cz and while you might say it's because I'm a female I doubt many men want to carry a 3+ pound gun.

Polymer works too well for carry guns. While guns like the glock 34 are good for competition shooting.

I think if there was a flood of demand for solely metal guns then we'd see the companies sell them accordingly. And in fact there are such models out there.

I think steel will stick around just as SA revolvers and lever action rifles have. I'd say people will shoot them for fun and nostalgia even as the contemporary stuff keeps evolving.

Sadly though I think we're almost certain to see far fewer choices in all guns thanks to the tide of gun control. I look to canada and Europe for what these entities want for us.

August 16, 2017, 12:28 PM	#26
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	I think a better question is: will we ever see a departure from polymer? Steel is fine for a collection or a target/competition gun, but for any defense use, steel is heavy to carry while polymer is light and doesn't rust. If there's going to be a change from polymer, it won't be to steel, it will be to harder non-ferrous metals like Scandium or aircraft aluminum or, what seems to be gaining a lot of interest now, Magnesium. Polymer is just easy to make and cheap. Unless there's a drastic increase of using 3D printing in manufacturing, the metals I listed above will have to be cast/forged, then machined, and finished. That's a lot of time and money and I don't think it's something the majority of people in a future where jobs will be scarce from lack of work thanks to automation and robots and AI taking their old jobs that they'll have the money to pay for that higher cost. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

August 16, 2017, 03:38 PM	#28
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,091	Don't think there will be a resurgence of steel. I think it will go the other way. Manufacturers will continue to look for ways to undercut the competition. Soon as they can perfect reinforced paper mache for the frames, and recycled eyeglass frames, or some such, for the other components, that's what we'll have. People will extol the virtues of the new, modern, paper mache pistols. They are so much better and lighter than those old Glocks, XDs, M&Ps,etc. And, MSRP will only be about only $23.25, but CDNN will have them for $18.69, with a free Chinese weapon light __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

August 16, 2017, 07:55 PM	#29
cslinger Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 2,045	I have no problem with polymer guns. I just think it is a shame we are moving towards that point where they are the far in away most available option. There is something about a steel gun. I mean hell I like guns all of em. So I am fairly covered, but there is something of romance and soul in a well machined metal firearm. __________________ "Is there anyway I can write my local gun store off on my taxes as dependents?"

August 16, 2017, 09:50 PM	#30
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	I like the feel of steel & I also like Poly. I might be crazy but as long as everything works like it should, I don't really care. Yes, I lust after my 66 327 Chevy but that's long gone like chocolate flavor straws and Imperial yo yo's that glow in the dark when you spin them. Se La Vie! __________________ Shoot well and be Accurate, Doc

August 17, 2017, 09:59 AM	#34
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	I agree that longing for the 'good ole days' and the associated material things is part of the human condition. I also don't think all steel handguns are going anywhere soon. That doesn't mean they are ever going to compete with the today's polymer offerings or the materials of the future though. Just like vinyl records and tube amps or muscle cars with naturally aspirated big block V8s with points ignition systems, many of us will remember them fondly and maybe even own a few. We will listen to digitally produced music and drive modern vehicles though... __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin Last edited by K_Mac; August 17, 2017 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Spelling

August 16, 2017, 03:25 PM	#27
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	Aluminum barrels and polymer bullets.

August 17, 2017, 06:58 AM	#32
arquebus357 Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2016 Location: Atlanta, Georgia area Posts: 455	I'm late in this polymer pistol era. Just picked up a Ruger American Compact. I very much like this pistol except for perverted Glock like trigger "safety" blade. I believe the metal drop in fire group into a polymer frame is a very practical design. Why haul around all the extra weight of steel if you don't need it. I'm not what you would call a shooter so I don't have all those problems associated with holding and firing a handgun. Some write-ups sound more like the story of the "Princess and the Pea" than a gun review.

August 17, 2017, 08:48 AM	#33
rep1954 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: Mid Western Michigan Posts: 1,187	"Will we ever see a resurgence in steel??" No but you will see a surge in metal gun collectors. I'm sure prices will soar.

August 17, 2017, 11:25 AM	#35
Screwball Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2012 Location: ME Posts: 771	There are still steel guns out there, but I don't think we will ever go back to them being a mainstay. Too heavy, and I think the military's movement to the P320 was the death nail for most alloy framed contracts. Polymer isn't bad, as long as the quality is there. Crappy polymer is just as bad as crappy alloy. You don't see widespread issues with most manufacturers because of the amount of time these have already been in the firearms market. I love my CZ SP-01, as well as my S&W 1006. They are great pistols, and likely will never sell them... but I don't carry them.

August 17, 2017, 08:11 PM	#36
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Plastic guns are popular because: A, they are cheaper B, Gaston Glock is a great salesman

August 17, 2017, 08:59 PM	#37
osbornk Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2012 Location: Mountains of Appalachia Posts: 1,598	I don't think steel guns will return any more than I think the heavy all steel cars and heavy TVs with glass picture tubes will return. Light, efficient, more reliable and cheaper is today's reality. My light and efficient half plastic car and my LED/LCD TVs are far more efficient and reliable than those in the "good old days" and my polymer guns never fail me. I even bought a Mossberg Blaze 47 rifle with a polymer receiver that has been flawless and the entire gun weighs just over 4 pounds. My favorite gun to shoot is an all steel 1911 but when I carry, it is always a polymer gun.

August 17, 2017, 09:42 PM	#38
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	As likely as rear-wheel-drive making a comeback in the consumer auto industry. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

August 18, 2017, 10:02 AM	#39
Independent George Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2013 Posts: 573	Steel will always be around, but it's pretty much done in the duty/carry category due to weight and cost. For range use, that weight is actually a boon because of the way it soaks up recoil. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

August 18, 2017, 05:03 PM	#40
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	There are a number of guns that are made and sold that are all steel. I don't believe that the all steel gun is ever going away. Yes, there are some advantages to plastic in guns and there will likely be new plastics designed that will make frames more durable. There may even be ceramics that can be used for barrels and the common steel parts in guns now but all steel guns will be around when people want to buy them.

August 31, 2017, 01:05 PM	#42
PT-92 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2007 Location: "Undisclosed Bunker" Posts: 1,464	I think it's analogous 'print media' vs. 'online media' consumption...Some people still prefer the feel of a 'paper newspaper and or magazine' as opposed to same being had electronically via phone, tablet, comp, etc...Same applies to a Browning Hi Power, S&W 686 vs. a Glock 19 or LCR or some variation thereof... Of course, one's age may be a predominant factor in this equation? __________________ NRA Life Member “A free people ought...to be armed..." ―George Washington

August 31, 2017, 01:47 PM	#43
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	Most unlikely. Aside from cost and weight, the design of products that must be manufactured by removing metal or casting it or forging involves certain other limitations on the end product. Sam Colt and John Browning were able to do fantastic things with what they had, but the FN 509, Glock, and others of their ilk could not have been made then. Differences are manifested in parts count and nuances of geometry. Everyone is lamenting the demise of the Browning HP, which was a legend in its time, but I'll wager that objective customers would choose the 509 every day of the week.

August 31, 2017, 03:04 PM	#44
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	This all depends on what question is being asked. Why does anyone still make revolvers? Why single action revolvers? It's because there is a market for them. So why pistols made of steel and aluminum alloys? Why don't they all disappear now? Because there is a large market for them. There is no doubt that polymer framed guns, long and short will increasingly dominate, as they do now, the military and law enforcement arenas. Their utility and greatly lower costs of production make that a given. It's why the question is even raised, because it's a fact now. But that fact does not mean that metal framed guns will receded into oblivion. Metal framed gun are doing just fine at present and will do that for the foreseeable future. There share of the market may decline some. Will polymer framed AR's and pistols disappear and metal and wood long guns again become dominant? No that won't happen. But that also doesn't mean that AKs will disappear inside of 5 years and Marlin leverguns in 45/70 or 30/30 will cease production in 2020 either. CZ is going to continue selling both it's metal and poly sidearms for a long time. They've been doing well despite the downturn. tipoc

August 31, 2017, 03:31 PM	#45
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	I think the real question is what material will replace the polymers that they are currently using. Steel guns are going to be around for a very long time because people like me like the steel.

September 3, 2017, 01:20 PM	#46
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	Another way of looking at it is this...Ford began mass producing gas powered automobiles and trucks in 1903. Within 2-3 decades the horsedrawn wagon was sidelined and all but gone (some use in agriculture, and carriage rides, etc.). It's been over 50 years since the AR was introduced and over 30 since the Glock. And still... tipoc

September 3, 2017, 07:08 PM	#47
JoeSixpack Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2017 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,048	And over a 100 years for 1911.. and look how many "me too" brands make them. It's almost easier to name the ones that don't.

September 4, 2017, 10:46 AM	#48
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,173	In my own experience I have a fair amount of both, polymer for carry and practice. But for any serious range shooting I'm really loving the steel/all metal guns. All my revolvers are steel, and I have an all steel FEG HiPower clone,an all metal CZ 75B SA, and an all steel Star in 9mm. Other than my P07, my polymers are pretty good for me to 7 yds, the P07 is good out to 15 yds no problem. But all my steel/metal guns are much better once you get beyond 10yds for me.

September 11, 2017, 04:15 AM	#49
thibaultfelix40 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2011 Posts: 154	It is not the guns, it's the parts. What is the best material for this one part under consideration. I don't forsee plastic barrels with steel stocks. __________________ olafhardt

September 11, 2017, 05:12 AM	#50
ARqueen15 Member Join Date: May 16, 2017 Posts: 47	I enjoy shooting steel and was quite fond of my cz75. I'd even consider a 1911 if good ones weren't as pricey as they are. The aesthetics and history of a 19 11 or browning hi power tug as strong as ever. However I never enjoyed carrying the cz and while you might say it's because I'm a female I doubt many men want to carry a 3+ pound gun. Polymer works too well for carry guns. While guns like the glock 34 are good for competition shooting. I think if there was a flood of demand for solely metal guns then we'd see the companies sell them accordingly. And in fact there are such models out there. I think steel will stick around just as SA revolvers and lever action rifles have. I'd say people will shoot them for fun and nostalgia even as the contemporary stuff keeps evolving. Sadly though I think we're almost certain to see far fewer choices in all guns thanks to the tide of gun control. I look to canada and Europe for what these entities want for us.