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November 16, 2009, 03:37 PM | #1 |
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What powders for Dad's 742?
I need to know what you guys think about powder selection for the venerable Remington autoloader. I have many different bullets to work with.
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November 16, 2009, 03:48 PM | #2 |
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Honestly, most people I know have caught pure hell trying to reload for the 742 (including me.) Of course, mine won't cycle with factory loads, but I know a few who that will cycle factory loads but not reloads. Don't ask me why. Good luck.
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November 16, 2009, 03:51 PM | #3 |
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Ah............What Caliber might it be?
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November 16, 2009, 04:10 PM | #4 |
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According to Remington, it is for one of these cartridges:
.243 Win, 6mm Remington, .280 Remington, .30-06, .308 Win The online manual for the model 7400 says NOTHING about what type of ammo to use or not use, except to "buy Remington." So it appears that any typical powder for the cartridge and bullet weight should be OK.
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November 16, 2009, 04:17 PM | #5 |
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Dad's is a 30-06 and has been very reliable, even with my handloads. I don't push too hard but don't want to shortchange him either. Any help would be great. He is atatched to this rifle. I have seen him make very long shots with it and it is HIS deer rifle. I've tried to get him to go bolt, why would he if his old 742 hasn't failed him? We all know the feeling. Thanks.
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November 16, 2009, 05:53 PM | #6 |
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IMR. 4350, 4831, 4895, and Varget for Starters.
For Deer 165 GK and IMR 4350 works for me. |
November 16, 2009, 05:56 PM | #7 |
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I like Varget as a general purpose powder for the .30-06. Anything from IMR/H4895 (faster side for lighter bullets) to IMR/H4350 (slower side for heavier bullets) should work well. So that would be in addition to those mentioned, powders such as BL(C)-2, IMR4064, Reloader 15, Reloader 19, IMR4831, and H414.
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"The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison
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November 16, 2009, 06:27 PM | #8 |
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The 742 is a gas operated rifle. As such I would recommend a powder in the burn rate of IMR 4895. I am going to say that you should follow the same powder guidelines as used for the M1 Garand.
That is nothing faster than IMR 3031 or slower than IMR 4064. IMR 4895 is about the best choice for a 30-06 gas gun. Powders such as IMR 4350 are slow, maintain a high gas volume, and are totally inappropriate for a gas gun. Let me recommend that you buy a Wilson type cartridge headspace gage, and size your brass to gage minimum. Trim the cases, clean the primer pockets. It is good practice to ream pockets to depth. Then prime all cases by hand and inspect to ensure that no primers are above the case head. Just set the bullet to the cannulure or magazine depth. Don't hot load this rifle. It came out in 1960 and ammunition makers were not hot loading rounds like they are today. In my Garands a 168 gr bullet with 47.0 IMR 4895, any case, CCI#34 primer functions perfectly. You could load a 150 grain bullet with 47.5 grains IMR 4895. Keep the chamber clean, keep the rifle lubricated. |
November 16, 2009, 06:48 PM | #9 |
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SlamFire
Once the caliber was stated I never thought past it. You are absolutely correct, 4350 would beat it to death. |
November 16, 2009, 07:10 PM | #10 |
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What in the heck is a "742" ?
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November 16, 2009, 07:49 PM | #11 |
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im currently 1000 miles from my home but if memory serves me right
****** Use a recipe at your own risk and double check and consult a manual before use******* 25 -25.5 grains of varget 6mm105gr Hornady A/V Max bullet (think its the Amax) remington case ***** with that batch of 50 rnds I did not experience any failure to feed or fires. mind you though my chrono registered at 2600fps. hope that helps at little Last edited by vsgonzo; November 16, 2009 at 08:03 PM. Reason: forgot to put the bullet weight |
November 16, 2009, 08:20 PM | #12 |
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742 Reloads
Crimping with a Lee factory crimp die is a good idea . We have a few 742s in our Hunter Education arsenal . I made Dummy rounds for it and it would drive the bullets back even with a hard crimp on them . Make sure that the barrel is screwed on tight , they have been known to loosen up over time . l
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November 16, 2009, 09:00 PM | #13 |
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Ok, I'm confused
You've been loading for the piece successfully. What's your recipe(s)?
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November 16, 2009, 09:39 PM | #14 |
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yeah its been reliable. Its an old model handled down from my step grandfather. I think its at least 20 years old if not older my dad was telling me.
it had some oooooooold rounds that were probably never removed from its box magazine in a loooooong time. thats the reason why I reloaded it cuz I couldn't find any ammo for it lol. all rounds (old and reloads) have fired and cycled like a champ through it. |
November 17, 2009, 12:31 AM | #15 |
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I've had a Remington 742 30-06 since the late 70's. At first it was fired with factory loads and since the early 80's only my reloads. I shot mostly 150 gr bullets with some 165 and 180's. I used IMR 4350 and would advise not to use that slow a powder in it. Mine has seen some battering of the receiver from the bolt. It still shoots reliably but it has some damage from what I believe is from using slow powders. I would advise to use powders in the burn rate chart from IMR 4895 to IMR 4064. I understand that most gunsmiths won't work on them and also that Remington won't take them for repairs either. Just what I've heard. So I would try to use a powder that would put less strain on the bolt and receiver from the longer pressure curve of the slower powders. Maybe it's because it was my first high power centerfire rifle and it's sentimental but it has been a good shooter and I wouldn't part with it.
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November 17, 2009, 08:26 AM | #16 |
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I've used 4895 and 150 grain Nos. BT's in it and were fine. Wondering about using Reloader 15 with 150-165 grains. What do you guys think of the new Model 750?
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November 17, 2009, 09:33 AM | #17 |
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4064 or RL15 will work just fine. Good choice of bullets with plastic tips. If I was going to buy an auto, it would be a BAR.
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November 17, 2009, 09:57 AM | #18 |
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I had a 742 a few years back, the most inaccurate rifle I have ever owned. No problems with getting it to operate, just problems getting any accuracy. My loads were 150 grain bullet with 4895. This combo never failed to function. I tried several different weight bullets and charges, but none were satisfactory. Bullets of 165 grains and over were the absolute worst..... Glad to be rid of it.
Oh yeah, it was in 30-06.
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November 17, 2009, 12:28 PM | #19 |
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Wow, a lot of close-but-no-cigar-answers.
1. The 742 no longer has parts made for it. Remington discontinued making the parts, good luck finding anything. 2. The design was made for bullets of 150 to 165 grains, nothing heavier. The powder burn rate has nothing to do with the operation of the gas system. Since lighter bullets used faster burn rate powders, and heavier bullets used slower powders, that's where the burn rate matters. 3. The bolt has no recoil buffer behind it. This causes the bolt to over-travel when you use a heavier bullet with a longer bore time. The bolt slams to a stop, the camming action of the bolt carrier twists the bolt locking lugs into the guide rails in the receiver. The bolt can and will jam there if you keep using heavy bullets. Once it does that there's not much that can be done to resurrect it. 4. Keep the bullet weight at 150 - 165 and use a powder UNDER the 4350's, you'll be fine. There's nothing wrong with loading to max if those 2 parameters are kept in mind. Of course this is for the 30-06 caliber, same goes for the others, keep to the mid weights on those too.
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November 17, 2009, 08:04 PM | #20 |
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Something else I remember about the 742. It was also chambered for the.280 and I was told that to keep from blowing it up factory loads were downloaded by about 20%. Now if this was true or not I never found out for sure. I did notice that in some of the reloading manuals of the time that .280s weren't loaded to the velocity of a .270. Always made me wonder.
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November 18, 2009, 06:50 AM | #21 |
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snuffy, my dad has a 742 and one day i'll reload that too, is 4350 good to use or should i get something with a slower burn rate?is that what you ment by "under"?
thanks |
November 18, 2009, 10:22 AM | #22 | ||||
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Quote:
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November 18, 2009, 11:46 AM | #23 |
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Different gas systems handle the gas differently. For instance, the M1 Garand has system that does not handle the slower burning powders. That is, the slower powders have a longer pressure curve, and thus will cause the piston and op rod to keep accelerating longer and slam harder against the receiver. Bullet weight also plays a role in that heavier bullets will exacerbate the pressures. It is generally recommended to use bullets of 172 gr or less, and powders of burn rate similar to IMR4064 or faster.
Other gas systems, such as the M1A has a gas bleeder valve that exhausts excess gas once the piston starts moving. The FAL uses an adjustable gas valve that the user can set for handling dirtier conditions or potentially for different powder/bullet combinations. You would have to know how the 742 handles the gas. Some previous posters who actually have a 742 say that the slower powders such as IMR4350 seem to batter the receiver too much. If you followed the M1 Garand guidelines that would be the most conservative approach. When I say "faster" powders I am speaking of powders in the IMR4895, H335, Re7, IMR3031, TAC range. The "medium" range would be like Varget, IMR4064, Re15. The "slower" range for .30-06 would be IMR/H4381, H450, IMR4350, Re19, Hunter. Basically, not all gas systems are the same, and some handle a wider range of powders and bullets. In some systems the powder burn rate and bullet weight do make an important difference. It is hard to say what is appropriate for the 742 unless you know from hands-on experience or how the system is designed.
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November 18, 2009, 12:04 PM | #24 |
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I owned and hunted with a Remington 742 for many years, and never had any problems with 150 grain handloads using IMR 4064. The rifle cycled perfectly even in extremely cold weather, and those hand loads were also very accurate in that particular rifle. I have found 4064 is hard to beat for producing accurate loads in a 30-06, and I currently use the exact same load in a Browning A-bolt as I did in the 742.
One thing about the 742 is that you must keep the chamber clean or you will find the extractor will do some damage to the cartridge rim in a real hurry. You have yourself a good hunting rifle in my opinion. |
November 18, 2009, 01:02 PM | #25 | ||
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Quote:
Since the majority of the 742's out there are 30-06, that applies to them. There's darn few of the .308, .243, and 6mm versions, as there are even fewer .280's. Slam is trying to trap me. Quote:
Of course powder burn rates affect port pressure of the various gas operated designs. So does bullet weight. Matching bullet weight with a powders burn rate results in good velocity and port pressure. Designs like the M-1 garand have limitations on the burn rate AND the bullet weight. So does the 742, at least in the 30-06 model. The 7400 is a much upgraded, newer version, it can handle heavier loadings. It's a well know fact that the "general public" thinks that when a box of ammo says 165 grain, then the next box says 180 grain, that means there's more powder,(15 grains more), in the 180 grain shells! Sooo they bought those "more powerful" shells for their 742's, went hunting. As little as 100 of those 180's in a 742 would beat it to death.
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