Walther PP

Joe the Redneck · June 8, 1999, 04:57 PM

I have a Walther PP in 380. It has a heel clip mag release. Does anyone know the age of this weapon? It appears to be in good working order (Finish has holster wear.) but I was afraid that the gun might be too old to shoot. I bought it second hand on the net so I know nothing of its history. Ant thoughts would be helpful.

Harley Nolden · June 10, 1999, 04:33 AM

REDNECK:
I sent you some information on your email. Is it what you needed?

HJN

Joe the Redneck · June 10, 1999, 08:23 PM

Thanks, but no, it's not a P-38. It's the pp. Here are the markings:
Waffenfabrik Walther, Zella-Mehlis (Thur) Mod. PP
Walther's Patent Cal. 9m/m
The Chamber and the slide both have the "Crown N".
Thanks
Joe the Redneck

Daniel Watters · June 10, 1999, 11:16 PM

The "Zella-Mehlis (Thur)" marking alone would indicate manufacture between 1929 and 1945. Post-war Walthers were made in Ulm-Donau.

In the 'Gun Room' column (page 22) of the May 1999 issue of Guns & Ammo, there is a query about a reader's heel-mag release Walther PP. They even include a photo of the reader's pistol. In the same issue, but in the column 'Strictly Handguns', there is another query about a reader's heel mag release, aluminum frame Walther PPK.

[This message has been edited by Daniel Watters (edited June 11, 1999).]

James K · June 12, 1999, 07:56 PM

A quick look at my sources shows both PP and PPK with the bottom magazine release. Most are early, but there appear to be some in no special number range. Some are .380, some alloy frame. Perhaps it was simply an option that Walther offered and a batch was made up from time to time, as most factories do with optional stuff.

PPs and PPKs made for the Polizeidirektion Munchen (Munich Police Department) and marked PDM have the bottom release, presumably per the police request, but those are in 7.65mm (.32ACP).

As to value, your gun is worth a about double the normal 7.65 PP both because it is 9mm Kurz (.380) and because of the bottom release.

If in good condition, I would not hesitate to shoot it with standard commercial .380 ball ammo, but avoid the "hot" hollowpoint ammo. I doubt a moderate amount of shooting will decrease its value, since it is not 100 percent to begin with.

Jim

James K · June 12, 1999, 08:04 PM

BTW and FYI, PP stands for "polizeipistole" (police pistol) and PPK for "polizeipistole kriminal" (detective police pistol). Note that in German the word "kriminal" means "detective"; the word for a crook is "kriminell". A detective story is a "kriminalroman".

Jim

Daniel Watters · June 23, 1999, 10:50 PM

For a picture and a short write-up on the heel-mag release PP, check out the following link: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu...88/ppheel.html

Joe the Redneck · June 24, 1999, 10:49 PM

Thanks, I guess this gun shall reserve the right to remain silent. I guess I'll have to get the thing valued. Might even have to get it insured.

Harley Nolden · June 24, 1999, 11:44 PM

Redneck:
The Values I sent on the email were for the Post War model

The earlier model is valued @
$850.00 $350.00

The PP is a semiauto pistol in .22, .25, .32 and .380. Introduced in 1928, it was the firest successful commercial double action pistol. It was mfg'd in finishes of blue, silver and gold, and with three type of engraving. Grips were generally two-piece black or white plastic with the Walther banner on each grip. Grips in wood or ivory are seen, but usually on engraved guns. There are many variations of the Moddel PP and numerous NSDAP markings seen on the pre 1946 models that were produced during the Nazi regime.

The pricing is presented if there are no import markings on the gun.

HJN

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited June 25, 1999).]

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June 8, 1999, 04:57 PM	#1
Joe the Redneck Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 1998 Location: New port richey FL us Posts: 473	I have a Walther PP in 380. It has a heel clip mag release. Does anyone know the age of this weapon? It appears to be in good working order (Finish has holster wear.) but I was afraid that the gun might be too old to shoot. I bought it second hand on the net so I know nothing of its history. Ant thoughts would be helpful.

June 10, 1999, 04:33 AM	#2
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	REDNECK: I sent you some information on your email. Is it what you needed? HJN

June 10, 1999, 08:23 PM	#3
Joe the Redneck Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 1998 Location: New port richey FL us Posts: 473	Thanks, but no, it's not a P-38. It's the pp. Here are the markings: Waffenfabrik Walther, Zella-Mehlis (Thur) Mod. PP Walther's Patent Cal. 9m/m The Chamber and the slide both have the "Crown N". Thanks Joe the Redneck

June 10, 1999, 11:16 PM	#4
Daniel Watters Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 644	The "Zella-Mehlis (Thur)" marking alone would indicate manufacture between 1929 and 1945. Post-war Walthers were made in Ulm-Donau. In the 'Gun Room' column (page 22) of the May 1999 issue of Guns & Ammo, there is a query about a reader's heel-mag release Walther PP. They even include a photo of the reader's pistol. In the same issue, but in the column 'Strictly Handguns', there is another query about a reader's heel mag release, aluminum frame Walther PPK. [This message has been edited by Daniel Watters (edited June 11, 1999).]

June 12, 1999, 07:56 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A quick look at my sources shows both PP and PPK with the bottom magazine release. Most are early, but there appear to be some in no special number range. Some are .380, some alloy frame. Perhaps it was simply an option that Walther offered and a batch was made up from time to time, as most factories do with optional stuff. PPs and PPKs made for the Polizeidirektion Munchen (Munich Police Department) and marked PDM have the bottom release, presumably per the police request, but those are in 7.65mm (.32ACP). As to value, your gun is worth a about double the normal 7.65 PP both because it is 9mm Kurz (.380) and because of the bottom release. If in good condition, I would not hesitate to shoot it with standard commercial .380 ball ammo, but avoid the "hot" hollowpoint ammo. I doubt a moderate amount of shooting will decrease its value, since it is not 100 percent to begin with. Jim

June 12, 1999, 08:04 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	BTW and FYI, PP stands for "polizeipistole" (police pistol) and PPK for "polizeipistole kriminal" (detective police pistol). Note that in German the word "kriminal" means "detective"; the word for a crook is "kriminell". A detective story is a "kriminalroman". Jim

June 23, 1999, 10:50 PM	#7
Daniel Watters Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 644	For a picture and a short write-up on the heel-mag release PP, check out the following link: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu...88/ppheel.html

June 24, 1999, 10:49 PM	#8
Joe the Redneck Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 1998 Location: New port richey FL us Posts: 473	Thanks, I guess this gun shall reserve the right to remain silent. I guess I'll have to get the thing valued. Might even have to get it insured.

June 24, 1999, 11:44 PM	#9
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Redneck: The Values I sent on the email were for the Post War model The earlier model is valued @ $850.00 $350.00 The PP is a semiauto pistol in .22, .25, .32 and .380. Introduced in 1928, it was the firest successful commercial double action pistol. It was mfg'd in finishes of blue, silver and gold, and with three type of engraving. Grips were generally two-piece black or white plastic with the Walther banner on each grip. Grips in wood or ivory are seen, but usually on engraved guns. There are many variations of the Moddel PP and numerous NSDAP markings seen on the pre 1946 models that were produced during the Nazi regime. The pricing is presented if there are no import markings on the gun. HJN [This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited June 25, 1999).]