1911: .357 vs .45?

[Model12Win]

There has been some recent threads and talk on the Coonan .357 magnum 1911 style pistol. I think its really interesting and might get one. They seem to have a reputation for being good, reliable guns.

But is the .357 magnum chambering really any more effective than a standard .45 ACP 1911? I guess this is one of those "light and fast" vs "slow and heavy" things, but the Coonan is proprietary with proprietary magazines. It is cool and unique and from all accounts worth owning, but from a purely defensive scenario, how much "better" would it be than a .45 ACP 1911?

Do you think the Coonan .357 would be more effective shot-for-shot over the larger caliber .45 ACP 1911 for defense work?

[Ghost1958]

Originally Posted by Model12Win

There has been some recent threads and talk on the Coonan .357 magnum 1911 style pistol. I think its really interesting and might get one. They seem to have a reputation for being good, reliable guns.

But is the .357 magnum chambering really any more effective than a standard .45 ACP 1911? I guess this is one of those "light and fast" vs "slow and heavy" things, but the Coonan is proprietary with proprietary magazines. It is cool and unique and from all accounts worth owning, but from a purely defensive scenario, how much "better" would it be than a .45 ACP 1911?

Do you think the Coonan .357 would be more effective shot-for-shot over the larger caliber .45 ACP 1911 for defense work?

The. 357 magnum with 125 gr sjhp was and is the king of one shot stops. It simply is the most effective handgun round available against 2 legged varmints.
That said the Coonan holds six rounds 7 if you go plus one which personally I wouldn't do on a 1911 platform. So additional rds really isnt a big point or advantage.
It's approximately the same weight as a, 4 inch. 357 revolver, toss up there.

Reload speed would be a plus over the revolver.

So yes the. 357 is a better man stopper than. 45. But not so much so that I'd pay 1000.00 bucks to get one more round over the revolver.

Now if I were to be going to spend 800 bucks or so on a 45 1911, I'd poney up the extra money to get the. 357 over the 45.

I'm sure 45 aficionados will be along to defend the ashtray lol

[SonOfScubaDiver]

Have you seen a video of the Coonan next to your standard 45cal 1911? It's much bigger and not something I think many people would consider for CC. Hickok45 has a good video on YT you might want to check out. I would choose the 357 over the 45 for SD purposes, but not the Coonan just because of how big it is.

[44 AMP]

Do you think the Coonan .357 would be more effective shot-for-shot over the larger caliber .45 ACP 1911 for defense work?

Yes, provided certain things are equal, and they usually aren't.

The most important thing that needs to be equal is that you shoot both equally well. IF you do, then the .357 Mag, with significantly more energy is more likely to be effective.

The object of defensive pistol use is to stop an attack. Period. And, stopped is stopped. There is no "more stopped", because you used a bigger round.

Consider this, a lot of people who are very involved in such things have, for quite some time rated the .357 Mag as the "king" of one shot stops. And, this is, of course, from revolvers. SO, if the .357 is the best (or even just a very good) stopper from a revolver, why would it be any different from a semi auto??

However, all things may not be equal. The Coonan is slightly larger than a full size Govt model 1911A1. Its a little bit longer, and a little bit taller, (and I'm leaving out the weight aspect, for now) so some people might not shoot it as well. And then, there's felt recoil, and how different shooters handle that.

Some people don't find much difference in the recoil, some do. Everyone agrees the .357 muzzle blast is much greater than the .45ACP. (and for good reason, the .357 burns double, some loads almost triple, the amount of powder in a .45acp).

Today, a lot of people consider the full size (5") 1911A1 pattern guns to be too big for daily carry. The Coonan, being even bigger (though much smaller than the other .357 Mag autopistols out there) would be even worse, for them.

Heck, even I don't carry a Govt model any more, I switched to a Browning BDA 45 (early version of the Sig P220) decades ago. Same .45acp round in a smaller, lighter package (and DA as well, if that matters to you).

The .357 is a more powerful round than the .45acp, no argument there. If you can handle the round, and the gun as well as you can the .45, it will work at least as well.

If you can't, then it might not.

I saw a Coonan ad a while back, and while I can't recall the exact wording, I thought the implication to be spot on.

The ad said something like this...

If you're looking for your first handgun...this isn't it!

[Damon555]

I would guess that the 357 would have an edge in that category.....the Coonan's muzzle blast is such that you might be able to shoot blanks and still have an effective self-defense round.....;o)

[tallball]

I am a revolver guy and prefer a 4" 357 for HD.

If I had to choose a 1911 for HD (not a bad option, and I own several of them), I would go for a double-stack 40 S&W or 45acp over a 357. Might as well have the extra rounds, if you are going to go to a bottom feeder.

(Admittedly, I have very large hands and am fine with the bigger grip.)

[CDW4ME]

In 1911 platform there are two "best" options:
45 acp
10mm
150 gr. Nosler handload @ 1,402
155 gr. XTP handload @ 1,400
175 gr. Hornady Critical Duty factory round - 1,158 fps
180 gr. Gold Dot handload 1,152 fps

[SA1911]

Ghost1958:

This is urban legend, fake news, gun magazine fantasy, armchair commando crapola, bovine excrement, Harvey Weinstein denial, Hillary Clinton promises:

"The. 357 magnum with 125 gr sjhp was and is the king of one shot stops. It simply is the most effective handgun round available against 2 legged varmints."

There is no such thing as a king of one-shot-stops.

[Model12Win]

Thanks gang. No kidding the Coonan is big.

Why do all defensive pistols have to be small and concealed?

[Nanuk]

Ghost1958:

This is urban legend, fake news, gun magazine fantasy, armchair commando crapola, bovine excrement, Harvey Weinstein denial, Hillary Clinton promises:

"The. 357 magnum with 125 gr sjhp was and is the king of one shot stops. It simply is the most effective handgun round available against 2 legged varmints."

There is no such thing as a king of one-shot-stops.

As a metric of measurement, not a tactic.

[Nanuk]

Why do all defensive pistols have to be small and concealed?

I carry a full size Glock or 4" 44 magnum and a BUG concealed. Define 'big".

[JoeSixpack]

1911 in 357 would be interesting, can it also handle 38's?

I think I'd rather have 10mm or 45acp though.

[Big Shrek]

10mm out of a CDE (Colt Delta Elite) is, well, painful.
It freakin HURTS to shoot 250 rounds out of one in a single day.
Even with the wrap-around Pachmyer grips.

But if you want Big Boom, but not a Glock, with similar capacity...
Star Megastar 10mm, 14 rds per mag, 1911-ish controls,
built like a brick house. The .45acp version also accepts .45-Super
with only the change of the recoil spring needed.
In this pistol, recoil is soaked by the massive size & weight of the
gun in question...it's dang near as big as a Desert Eagle...
Can be found in Blued or Starvel/Stainless.

But OMG is it fun
And I'm a big guy, so the weight/size just means it ain't for wimps!

[74A95]

Options for the 1911 platform:

9X23 Winchester: 125 grain bullet at 1450 fps. Same as 4" .357 magnum revolver.

38 Super: with handloads it equals the 9X23 Winchester.

45 Super / 450 SMC: 185 grain bullet at 1300+ fps. 200 grain bullet at 1200 fps. 230 grain bullet at 1100+ fps. Equal to 10mm Auto.

[Screwball]

The Coonan is nice... but I really wouldn’t put it up against a 1911 in .45.

It is a unique gun, for someone that wants something different. Like 44 AMP stated, that ad line sums up the Coonan very well (I’ve seen it, as well).

[44 AMP]

It freakin HURTS to shoot 250 rounds out of one in a single day.

well, in that case, I'd say, ... don't do that!

[railroader]

You know there are 1911's in 357sig. You get 357 velocities with 125 grain bullet. Here's the Sig Nightmare.

[Oyster Stew]

I would get a desert* eagle in 357 before a Coonan. The reviews scared me and has lead me to believe desert eagle has better quality/reliability.

if your heart is set I would check out http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

click on the link with the ft lb graph give you a great idea comparing 45 acp and 357 with the 2 graphs side by side.

edit: dessert to desert* eagle lol thanks XD

[khegglie]

^^^^^^^
"Dessert" Eagle.
Yum������

[disseminator]

For self defense the 45 Auto with a 230 grain HST from Federal will be far better than a 357 Magnum from the huge Coonan. Never mind reliability.

[jetinteriorguy]

S&W model 627, 8 rounds of 158 gr hot .357 Mag gets the job done as good as or better than anything. LSWCHP at 1200 FPS will take care of business. My best all around handgun in my experience.

[jetinteriorguy]

Oops, my apologies for the previous post. Forgot which forum I was in.

[Ghost1958]

Originally Posted by Nanuk

As a metric of measurement, not a tactic.

Thank you.

[Ghost1958]

Originally Posted by SA1911

Ghost1958:

This is urban legend, fake news, gun magazine fantasy, armchair commando crapola, bovine excrement, Harvey Weinstein denial, Hillary Clinton promises:

"The. 357 magnum with 125 gr sjhp was and is the king of one shot stops. It simply is the most effective handgun round available against 2 legged varmints."

There is no such thing as a king of one-shot-stops.

OK.

[44 AMP]

I would get a desert* eagle in 357 before a Coonan. The reviews scared me and has lead me to believe desert eagle has better quality/reliability.

I am curious what reviews you read that gives you this opinion. In my experience, both the Coonan and the DE are extremely well made and reliable as any semi auto, when fed the correct ammunition. (and held the right way )

Other than both being available in .357 Magnum, the two have little in common.

The Desert Eagle is gas operated, and should never be fired with lead bullet ammunition. The Coonan is recoil operated, so either lead or jacketed is fine.

The DE is significantly larger than the Coonan, and over a pound and a half heavier!!! (Coonan, 42oz, DE, 68oz)

I got my first .357 DE in 1984, and I got a Coonan model A some years ago. I don't have one of the new production Coonans, but I have seen a couple, and if anything they've gotten better!