Military concealed carry in uniform? - Page 2

Hardcase · October 12, 2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

There is a bill pending to protect the 2nd Amendment rights of military personnel.

Unfortunately, that bill was referred to committee and died at the end of the last Congress. It doesn't look like it's been reintroduced.

jgcoastie · October 12, 2011, 04:57 PM

Elmendorf AFB, Eilson AFB, and USCG Base Kodiak exchanges all sell guns, ammo, etc.

AAFES typically offers firearms and related items at bases located in states that are lightly regulated. You'll probably never see guns at exchanges in CA, IL, MA, MD, and the others on the usual list of suspects....

As for the OP, don't do it. Even if you can find some loophole somewhere that you think will cover you, don't do it.

If you want to carry on the way to work, travel in civvies and change into uniform when you get to work.

FrankenMauser · October 13, 2011, 12:23 AM

Quote:

If you want to carry on the way to work, travel in civvies and change into uniform when you get to work.

And, don't do it in a GOV.

tahunua001 · October 14, 2011, 10:31 AM

I dont know what branch you work for but the navy is too anal retentive to allow sailors to take a GOV home. GOVs are for government use and they'll hem you up in a heart beat if you even make an unscheduled fast food stop. wont have to worry about me packing in anything but a POV

vranasaurus · October 14, 2011, 01:53 PM

I don't know about the Navy but Army Regulation 190-14 paragraph 2-6b. states:

Only Government-owned, and Government-issued weapons and ammunition are authorized to be carried by DA personnel while performing official duties. The Secretary of the Army may authorize an exception to this requirement for Army investigative organizations.

In the army it would depend on whether or not you are performing official duties. Official duties includes traveling to and from your duty location.

When would you be carrying while in uniform that you didn't start at a duty location or start at your home on the way to your duty location? The point being where would the gun be while on duty?

ClydeFrog · October 14, 2011, 03:13 PM

I did not read all the forum posts or topic reply messages yet but this subject(US military-CONUS concealed weapons) has come up before.
I'd check with the legal affairs, DoD Police(MP or Security Forces/MAA office) for any post/base regulations. The JAG(Judge Advocate Generals) legal
affairs office or the base's CO(commanding officer) may know where to find the laws/UCMJ related standards re; concealed firearms or weapons.
After the Ft Hood Texas & Pentagon shooting incidents, I know Sec Robert Gates set up new SOPs.
Other legal resources include www.nra.org www.gunlawguide.com www.navy.mil and www.handgunlaw.us .
Atty David Wong wrote a legal guide for gun & knife laws. Wong also knows a lot about the FLEOSA & federal laws. He may know the gun/concealed carry SOPs-laws on US military installations(CONUS) too.
Dont go totally by the error net or some gun shop ranger either.
As I posted before, new SOPs or laws may have gone into effect since your neighbor's cousin's barber's mailman was in the US Navy.

Clyde

tahunua001 · October 14, 2011, 03:35 PM

actually the navy defines official capacity as the performing of ones duties and any community relations project where you are acting as a direct liaison to the general public on behalf of the navy. transiting is not considered official duty, your work day starts where you enter the building/ECP. that's why we are not allowed to wear our cammys out in town or while traveling since you are only supposed to wear them in an official capacity.

**44 AMP** · October 15, 2011, 10:45 AM

There are variations of views, but generally, if you are in uniform, you are on duty. Remember, you get paid 24/7, and you are never technically, completely off duty if you are being paid.

Military personel do not have the same legal rights as civilians. There is no constitutional rights issue at work here.

While there may not be a regulation specifically prohibiting it, generally you can only be armed when it is part of your official duty. And then, only with what is issued to you by the service.

Some commands allow a bit of leeway, others do not. Commands with troops in combat are, historically, more tolerant about many things than those in the rear.

But that is on the local commanders authority, not the general regulations.

Packing your personal pistol CCW under your uniform? Article 15, or worse, if caught, I would think.

ClydeFrog · October 15, 2011, 06:12 PM

Views or opinions are meaningless to a member of the US armed forces.
Anyone on active duty must comply or follow the federal laws, SOPs, lawfull orders, or regulations.
The SecDef, no matter who it is, is in the formal chain of command & if DoD policy or a base commander issues a order it MUST be followed.
Thats how the UCMJ(Uniform Code of Military Justice) works.
As I posted, after the huge Ft Hood shooting incident & a few other high profile incidents(some terrorist related), the US military & DoD changed a lot of rules/SOPs.
CF

October 12, 2011, 04:57 PM	#27
jgcoastie Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Location: Kodiak, Alaska Posts: 2,118	Elmendorf AFB, Eilson AFB, and USCG Base Kodiak exchanges all sell guns, ammo, etc. AAFES typically offers firearms and related items at bases located in states that are lightly regulated. You'll probably never see guns at exchanges in CA, IL, MA, MD, and the others on the usual list of suspects.... As for the OP, don't do it. Even if you can find some loophole somewhere that you think will cover you, don't do it. If you want to carry on the way to work, travel in civvies and change into uniform when you get to work. __________________ "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.

October 14, 2011, 10:31 AM	#29
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	I dont know what branch you work for but the navy is too anal retentive to allow sailors to take a GOV home. GOVs are for government use and they'll hem you up in a heart beat if you even make an unscheduled fast food stop. wont have to worry about me packing in anything but a POV __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

October 14, 2011, 03:13 PM	#31
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	DoD SOPs, UCMJ, SecDef Robert Gates.... I did not read all the forum posts or topic reply messages yet but this subject(US military-CONUS concealed weapons) has come up before. I'd check with the legal affairs, DoD Police(MP or Security Forces/MAA office) for any post/base regulations. The JAG(Judge Advocate Generals) legal affairs office or the base's CO(commanding officer) may know where to find the laws/UCMJ related standards re; concealed firearms or weapons. After the Ft Hood Texas & Pentagon shooting incidents, I know Sec Robert Gates set up new SOPs. Other legal resources include www.nra.org www.gunlawguide.com www.navy.mil and www.handgunlaw.us . Atty David Wong wrote a legal guide for gun & knife laws. Wong also knows a lot about the FLEOSA & federal laws. He may know the gun/concealed carry SOPs-laws on US military installations(CONUS) too. Dont go totally by the error net or some gun shop ranger either. As I posted before, new SOPs or laws may have gone into effect since your neighbor's cousin's barber's mailman was in the US Navy. Clyde

October 14, 2011, 03:35 PM	#32
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	actually the navy defines official capacity as the performing of ones duties and any community relations project where you are acting as a direct liaison to the general public on behalf of the navy. transiting is not considered official duty, your work day starts where you enter the building/ECP. that's why we are not allowed to wear our cammys out in town or while traveling since you are only supposed to wear them in an official capacity. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

October 15, 2011, 10:45 AM	#33
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	There are variations of views, but generally, if you are in uniform, you are on duty. Remember, you get paid 24/7, and you are never technically, completely off duty if you are being paid. Military personel do not have the same legal rights as civilians. There is no constitutional rights issue at work here. While there may not be a regulation specifically prohibiting it, generally you can only be armed when it is part of your official duty. And then, only with what is issued to you by the service. Some commands allow a bit of leeway, others do not. Commands with troops in combat are, historically, more tolerant about many things than those in the rear. But that is on the local commanders authority, not the general regulations. Packing your personal pistol CCW under your uniform? Article 15, or worse, if caught, I would think. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 14, 2011, 01:53 PM	#30
vranasaurus Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,184	I don't know about the Navy but Army Regulation 190-14 paragraph 2-6b. states: Only Government-owned, and Government-issued weapons and ammunition are authorized to be carried by DA personnel while performing official duties. The Secretary of the Army may authorize an exception to this requirement for Army investigative organizations. In the army it would depend on whether or not you are performing official duties. Official duties includes traveling to and from your duty location. When would you be carrying while in uniform that you didn't start at a duty location or start at your home on the way to your duty location? The point being where would the gun be while on duty?

October 15, 2011, 06:12 PM	#34
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Views, opinions, SOPs, orders, & laws... Views or opinions are meaningless to a member of the US armed forces. Anyone on active duty must comply or follow the federal laws, SOPs, lawfull orders, or regulations. The SecDef, no matter who it is, is in the formal chain of command & if DoD policy or a base commander issues a order it MUST be followed. Thats how the UCMJ(Uniform Code of Military Justice) works. As I posted, after the huge Ft Hood shooting incident & a few other high profile incidents(some terrorist related), the US military & DoD changed a lot of rules/SOPs. CF