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December 8, 2018, 03:52 PM | #1 |
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Shooting lead in California
Just a little curiosity on my part. It's my understanding that after the 1st of the year it will be against the law in Kalifornia to fire any projectiles with lead in them. I was wondering if this is the case, are muzzleloaders just out of business or possibly not considered firearms in the crazy state. If they are considered firearms there, it would seem that round balls or mini balls would be illegal?
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December 8, 2018, 06:07 PM | #2 | |||
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Was just looking long and hard for anything pertaining to this new rule, and I managed to dig up a lot.
Summary: The banning of lead ammunition seems to be only in effect in hunting lands, with specific intent to "protect the condor population". The law is actually implemented in 3 stages, from 2008, to 2015, and finally, a full ban on July 1st, 2019, but only on land used for hunting. Target and defensive ammunition does not seem to be affected, unless you are using them...again, on hunting grounds. Summary for muzzleloaders: For hunting, it seems like the only options available would be sabot rounds loaded with non-lead alloy bullets. No PRB's and no minies and no BP revolvers. Expect an increase of business in modern in-line and 209-ignition rifles in this state. For target shooting and those who carry black powder revolvers for defense or Old West competitive events, nothing will be affected, hopefully. Here are some snippets from the coverage of this law: Quote:
Quote:
This is from the Q&A section: Quote:
If you want the full article regarding the condor-protection program and how the lead-ban will affect your HUNTING activity, the page can be found here: https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/hunting/...ibed-in-ab-711 They may or may not still have a coupon program in effect where you can exchange your non-approved ammunition for state-approved products when using them to hunt on protected ground. Last edited by Rachen; December 8, 2018 at 06:43 PM. |
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December 10, 2018, 06:52 PM | #3 |
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Maybe the next step is to use nontoxic gold bullets.
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December 10, 2018, 08:00 PM | #4 |
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Will this law lose standing and end when the other factors in California finally render the Condor extinct in the wild?
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December 11, 2018, 07:05 AM | #5 |
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I sincerely doubt the law will ever lose standing. If anything they will then probably go after things like primers leaving some type of residue in the environment, or maybe gun oils that could possibly rub off on something else, etc..... The whole situation is just another instance of the camel's nose under the tent. Condors have nothing to do with it, it's all about gun and people control.
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December 11, 2018, 10:28 AM | #6 |
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Just a note. We don't encourage pejorative terms like California with a "K". Good people live there who fight for the RKBA and good people who are just people.
I edited that out. To be blunt, it's childish.
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December 11, 2018, 12:13 PM | #7 |
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Glenn,
Thank you! |
December 11, 2018, 03:41 PM | #8 |
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I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone by the use of a "K" in the word California. I lived in California for many years and have lots of friends out there still that I correspond to regularly...and it might surprise you how many refer to the state in the "K" manner. No offense was meant by my spelling.
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December 11, 2018, 04:19 PM | #9 |
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Years ago, I experimented with bismuth and zinc as casting metals. They produced good bullets. I was doing it primarily for lighter projectiles and increased velocity, but it would work for non-toxic bullets as well. Whether the CA DFW would recognize them as an approved non-toxic alternative would be a question to ask, but the bullets work.
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December 11, 2018, 06:43 PM | #10 |
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Thanks for that, Old Stoney!
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December 11, 2018, 10:43 PM | #11 |
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Thanks Scorch. Are the weights comparable?
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December 13, 2018, 03:08 AM | #12 |
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Weights for bismuth are about 90% of lead, weights for zinc about 60%
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December 13, 2018, 05:15 AM | #13 |
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I'd think it could get interesting watching a game warden's face as you explain to him your round balls you are hunting with are made with bismuth and not lead. It wouldn't surprise me if you ended up having to prove it to a judge in the end, so you could avoid the fine, get your muzzleloader back from the authorities, etc.....not to mention the hiring of a lawyer to defend you.
Maybe this is overthinking the situation, but it's just a strange situation anymore, anywhere along the west coast. |
December 14, 2018, 02:56 AM | #14 |
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Lead and bismuth look different enough that a trained eye can tell the difference. But game wardens aren't always trained, that's why I suggested running it past the folks at CA DFG.
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December 14, 2018, 03:12 AM | #15 |
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This could get to be an interesting situation out there. If those alternatives would make it through the approval processes, it would sure help a muzzleloader guy..
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December 14, 2018, 05:59 PM | #16 |
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There's a guy on another forum I belong to that's experimenting with .40 caliber bullets and .45 caliber sabots out of a Walker. He says in an army cylinder you can't get but 20 grains of powder under them but he says they looks promising.
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December 15, 2018, 01:06 AM | #17 |
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I'm pretty sure that if you hunt with an air rifle, even after the implementation of phase 3, the lead prohibition does not apply. Both the flow chart and the question regarding air rifles in the FAQs bear this out.
I don't mean to be critical, just pointing out what the regulations say. Last edited by prob; December 16, 2018 at 03:24 AM. |
December 15, 2018, 09:48 PM | #18 |
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Does anyone know how does zinc and bismuth affect the rifling grooves and the inside of the bores? Because common black powder knowledge would tell you that lead is the only suitable projectile.
If I were hunting with a .58 caliber rifled musket, it would feel so......off...to load the gun with a plastic sabot with a polymer tipped copper bullet inside. I don't know about anyone else, but I am a lead bullet adherent. Unless I am shooting modern high velocity smallbores. |
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