Ruger Mini-Thirty Tactical and why its better than an AR.

[tahunua001]

I would never call the mini thirty better than an AR15.

It fires a powerful, widely available round (7.62x39)

you can get an AR that also fires 7.62x39. availability of 223 and 5.56 are identical, if not superior to 7.62x39. and 7.62x39 is not powerful by any stretch of the imagionation. it's designed to be a light recoiling intermediate cartridge for fully automatic weapons, more manageable than it's predecessor(7.62x54R) but still better at range than a sub machine gun(7.62x25). until the introduction of the 300 whisper/blackout/fireball, 7.62x39 was the least powerful of all the 30 caliber rifle cartridges(excluding 30 carbine).

its deadly accurate (2 MOA out of the box with mine). AR fans like to tout its accuracy, but the fact is few of them can shoot as well as their rifle and even less will ever need that kind of accuracy. 2 MOA means you can hit the vital zone of just about any living creature at 350 yards or closer

although it's not terrible, 2 MOA is really nothing to brag about. I think you could pull any AR15 off the shelf and it'll hold 2 MOA all day long. heck my SKS is a 2 MOA rifle. just because a shooter can't shoot better does not mean that accuracy is wasted. if my gun can shoot less than one inch groups but I'm only capable of 2 inch groups that's still an extreme spread of 3 rather than an extreme spread of 4 out of a 2 MOA rifle.
as for 350 yard kill shots, I think very few shooters could hit anything in the kill zone reliably with a 7.62x39 reliably regardless of whether it was 2 MOA or 1 due simply to the extreme bullet drop and wind drift of the cartridge. at that range, 7.62x39 is also severely underpowered there just isn't a whole lot of energy left which in hunting is kindof a big deal. as I stated earlier, if a person is, at best a 2 MOA shooter and your gun is a 2 MOA rifle then you have an extreme spread of 4 inches which at 3500 yards comes to 15 inches which is quite a bit larger than the kill zone on anything that the 7.62x39 has any business hunting for in the first place.

its made by a good American company with great customer service and a lifetime warranty

Ruger does not nor have they ever, offered a lifetime warranty. they stand behind their guns and if you send it to them and it is damaged due to a manufacturing defect they will almost universally repair or replace it free of charge but they are not obligated to do so. almost every single AR15 manufacturer out there is an american based company with american based factories.

Also, its considerably less expensive than an AR and in my opinion is a better weapon

where in the heck are you basing your prices off of? most mini 30s sell for between 700 and 900 dollars based on local pricing curves. AR15s can be had for as low as $500 if you catch people during a good sale.

Mini 14 - No hot gases are dumped into the bolt. So the bolt is not over come by excessive heat! Also there is no carbon to build up and lock up the bolt!

AR15 - Hot gases are dumped into the bolt to say the least and carbon will build up if not regularly cleaned causing a malfunction and or cease to operate condition.

somebody spends a little too much time reading the ramblings of mall ninjas, and would-be operators. the poops where it eats argument has been discussed to death and nobody has yet to show that a DI gun given proper maintenance is any less effective or reliable as a piston gun.

Mini 14 - All steel receiver and case hardened to a thickness of at least .020"

AR15 - 75% aluminum alloy with the critical parts steel

personal preference, nothing more. some of the most respected designs out there are made of plastic and hold up just fine.

Mini 14 - Open bolt design is a close copy of the M14. The open bolt is very forgiving when it comes to dirt, dust or sand. The rifle clean or dirty just keeps ticking and ticking.

AR 15- Closed bolt design. Just ask our troops about the plastic baggies they need to use to keep the sand from jamming up there rifles.

I was one of those troops and I can tell you that the guys in the field that ACTUALLY TOOK CARE of their guns didn't have a single problem.

Mini 14 - Self-cleaning gas system no buffer tube to collect moisture or dirt and lock up the buffer system.

AR 15- Must be field stripped to clean trigger compartment, Buffer system, Bolt & carrier and gas tube system.

again, this is complete nonsense spouted by would be experts that have never owned, used, and maintained the rifle in question. I have never once had any debris of any kind short of a little dust enter my buffer tubes and I live in a rather arid and dusty climate.

Mini 14 - Field strips in seconds. Pop the trigger guard and the rifle practically dismantles it self.

AR 15- Definitely slower to disassemble.

I can field strip my ARs in 10 seconds. you pop the take down pin and the BCG and charging handle are out... gun is field stripped. sure if you truly believe that you have to clean the buffer tube then it increases to about 20 seconds.

sorry if my comments are not respectful enough but I see a lot of personal preference and hearsay being passed off as engineering, tactical, or practical fact. I suggest you educate yourself before regurgitating what you read on forums.

[Duzell]

Agreed ^

[amd6547]

^^Agreed, also.
Based on my ownership of a Mini 14 stainless which was inaccurate.
Plus, I really like $9.00 AR mags.

[GLK]

Theohazard just took your lunch money and schooled you and V450Gary just gave you an educational wedgie metaphorically speaking. Now for what it is worth I enjoy both the 14 & the 30 for what they are.

I don't want to get involved in an "AR-15 vs. Mini-14/30" argument; both are great rifles. But your post is full of misleading (or simply incorrect) information:

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
The barrel is also threaded with a flash suppressor, which is great if you own a can. If not, I suggest replacing it with a good compensator.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. There are a few silencers on the market that are designed to fit on a standard AR flash hider, but not many. And I don't know of any that will fit on a Mini-14 or Mini-30 flash hider. The vast majority of silencers on the market are either designed to be directly screwed on to the rifle's threads, or attached to a proprietary muzzle device sold by the silencer company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
AR15 - Hot gases are dumped into the bolt to say the least and carbon will build up if not regularly cleaned causing a malfunction and or cease to operate condition.
This is one of the most over-blown issues regarding the AR platform, and it leads to countless internet myths. Yes, it gets dirty very quickly, but it takes a very long time for the carbon to actually affect the rifle's functioning. Throughout my time in both the Marine Corps infantry and the civilian world, I've found the M16/AR-15 family of rifles to be the most reliable rifles I've ever used. Yes, the AR-15 needs to be cleaned more often than some other designs, but you'd be amazed how long it will keep running after it gets filthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
Mini 14 - All steel receiver and case hardened to a thickness of at least .020"

AR15 - 75% aluminum alloy with the critical parts steel
The AR doesn't need a steel receiver. The aluminum parts are used to cut weight where steel isn't needed. The aluminum parts on an AR aren't a weakness at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
Mini 14 - Open bolt design is a close copy of the M14. The open bolt is very forgiving when it comes to dirt, dust or sand. The rifle clean or dirty just keeps ticking and ticking.

AR 15- Closed bolt design. Just ask our troops about the plastic baggies they need to use to keep the sand from jamming up there rifles.
I don't understand what you're talking about here. Both designs are closed-bolt. As far as I know, the only open-bolt designs being manufactured today are belt-fed machine guns for the military.

As for the "plastic baggies", I don't know what you're talking about there, either. I got out of the Marine Corps before Iraq and Afghanistan, but I spent my fair share of time in the desert and other sandy areas. Heck, I've done more Zodiac boat raid training on Camp LeJeune's beaches than I care to remember. And sand is not anywhere near as big an issue for the M16/AR-15 as many people claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
AR 15- Must be field stripped to clean trigger compartment, Buffer system, Bolt & carrier and gas tube system.
You don't need to clean the buffer system during a normal field cleaning. You also don't need to clean the trigger group during a normal field cleaning. Those parts take a very long time to get dirty. During a field cleaning, you only need to clean the BCG and the chamber, and then punch the bore. That's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
Mini 14 - compact, versatile, and doesn't take up much space.

AR15 - Large bulky
Sure, the Mini-14/30 is a little more streamlined than the AR-15, but the AR-15 is far from "large and bulky".


Quote:
Originally Posted by boltomatic
Mini 14 - Field strips in seconds. Pop the trigger guard and the rifle practically dismantles it self.

AR 15- Definitely slower to disassemble.
This is flat-out incorrect. The AR-15 is far faster to field strip than the Mini-14/30. For a normal field cleaning, just pop the rear takedown pin, hinge the rifle open, and take out the BCG and the charging handle. That's it; that's all you need to do for a normal field cleaning. It takes about three or four seconds to disassemble, and that's if you're not rushing. And if you want to clean the buffer system (which rarely needs cleaning), it doesn't take much longer to take out the buffer and spring.
__________________

Quote:
Mini 14 - No hot gases are dumped into the bolt. So the bolt is not over come by excessive heat! Also there is no carbon to build up and lock up the bolt!

AR15 - Hot gases are dumped into the bolt to say the least and carbon will build up if not regularly cleaned causing a malfunction and or cease to operate condition.
Hot gases are impinged upon the bolt carrier and then the bolt. Wanna hear something? Both work. They're different, but both work. The gas impingment system is one of the reasons why the AR can out shoot the Mini. It has fewer moving parts and therefore greater harmonic frequency. No slide to slop around and affect lockup.
Quote:
Mini 14 - Open bolt design is a close copy of the M14. The open bolt is very forgiving when it comes to dirt, dust or sand. The rifle clean or dirty just keeps ticking and ticking.

AR 15- Closed bolt design. Just ask our troops about the plastic baggies they need to use to keep the sand from jamming up there rifles.
I'd rather say exposed bolt as opposed to "open bolt" and "closed bolt." Open bolt implies that the firearm fires from an open bolt, that is to say, the bolt is held back and has a fixed firing pin. This is common on submachineguns and some machineguns. Closed bolt implies that the bolt must be closed for the gun to be fired. An exposed bolt is more exposed to dirt, mud or sand. It's easier to access to clean, but it's exposed. If this were really a valid argument, then we could say the "closed bolt" or rather enclosed bolt of the AK is superior because it outruns all other designs in virtually any other condition.
Quote:
Mini 14 - Self-cleaning gas system no buffer tube to collect moisture or dirt and lock up the buffer system.

AR 15- Must be field stripped to clean trigger compartment, Buffer system, Bolt & carrier and gas tube system.
Yes, but the Mini-14 must be stripped to clean the trigger group, slide (op rod), slide spring and guide, receiver & bolt.
Quote:
Mini 14 - compact, versatile, and doesn't take up much space.

AR15 - Large bulky
But if the AR's upper and lower are separated, it is smaller than the Mini-14. It can be fitted into a small case.

Quote:
Mini 14 - Field strips in seconds. Pop the trigger guard and the rifle practically dismantles it self.

AR 15- Definitely slower to disassemble.
Depends on AR model. It can be quick and it's easier to reassemble. It all depends on the training of the user.

Quote:
Mini 14 - Now here the AR has an advantage over the Mini. Out of the box ACCURACY!

AR 15 - Out of the box ACCURACY!
AR is also more versatile. Change out the receiver and you can have a varminter, pistol caliber carbine, sporter rifle. Can't do that with a Mini. The AR is the LEGO of the gun world and the first gun since the flintlock/percussion rifle that the average person with minimal skills can assemble. As for tools to work on the Mini-14, you can't get them. Factory Trained Armorers only. The AR tools can be had by anyone.
Yesterday 12:36 AM

[txpossum]

I had one of the earlier mini-14. I never had any problems with it, but it wasn't the most accurate gun I owned. My understanding is that the later models were more accurate. It was a fun gun to shoot. I wish I had another, but refuse to pay the prices they're asking for them these days.

[hlds54]

I smell a troll...

[hlds54]

also, I wouldn't trust my life to a mini 14/30 like I would an AR or AK, especially in a SHTF scenario. I've heard from several firearms instructors that mini's are nothing more than glorified target rifles, and that they will not survive abuse and/or high round count.

[tirod]

Here's the truth about "poops where it eats": ALL self loading actions do that. Every one.

Blow back? Very much so, it's the only way it operates - the gas pressure shoves the cartridge case against the bolt face and cycles the action. Once the cartridge is retracted fractions of an inch and the case is loose, gas pressure blows around the case into the action and contaminates the trigger group, receiver, and works it's way back to the rear. That is nearly every .22 self loading handgun and rifle ever made. Nobody complains about them.

A locking bolt with lugs simply delays the initial gas impulse so that the bolt is retracting at a low enough pressure to withstand battering. In the Mini, again, once the lugs unlock, the case is loose, gas flows around it dumping into the action. You can see the results by wiping the ejected cases on a white cloth. Wear a white T-shirt to the range next time and wipe every case off as soon as you can pick it up - your shirt will be grimy before the magazine is empty.

Same for the AR, AK, HK, FNFAL, whatever - if the action loads itself, it opens early enough gas pressure is forced back into it, and dirty brass is the evidence.

Whenever I read that the M16 "poops where it eats" I can be immediately reassured the poster doesn't have a clue about firearms and is explicitly in denial about the reality of how they operate. From that point on I can trust their analysis will be flawed by emotion, not logical thought.

The Mini does have some advantages over the AR, yes, but none of those are mentioned in a rush to "prove" it's superior. Unfortunately, everything mentioned is false, and I can only conclude this posting would have been more appropriate on April 1st. It's been thoroughly debunked in numerous discussions in a dozen forums for the last ten years.

What I perceive is a fondness for the Garand in a cut down size - which isn't all that, either. Therefore, for educational purposes, I will post a link to the original and an analysis of what is wrong with it - much of which still applies: http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/bl...s-a-real-rifle

Note particularly that the exposed operating rod can and will jam the action if you are shooting behind cover and it comes in contact with it. 3 Gunners are explicitly aware of the issue. Also, it must be noted that the Mini in any caliber is so rarely issued it can be listed with two - the Bermuda Regiment, and some Marines on Embassy Guard duty. Likely the last is due to political considerations, not because it is superior to the M4 which is standard issue.

Nope, Mini's are NOT all that. So much so that the few users noted were in the '80s, were police constabulary, and the image of a traditional weapon was likely the overriding choice. Very few do that now with the militarization of police and the US Gov't issuing free M16's to departments across the nation.

[dean1818]

After rereading the OP........ I think the author is getting a laugh

It's a sham to create an argument..... Or maybe to gain attention

Start a thread with Your Glock sucks...... The M&P isbetter....
You will get 20 pages of back and forth..........nonsense

Change the thread to Springfield sucks........The Ruger is better
You will get 20 pages of back and forth......... nonsense

See a trend?

I see myself adding to these.... Then I give myself the head slap

[Double Naught Spy]

You know, I was thinking about all the military and police organizations that have adopted the Mini-30 over the AR15. I was thinking about all the competitors that choose it over the AR15. It was a really brief thought.

[JD0x0]

I bet I can show you why Military and police don't commonly use the Mini's. I know that some do, but this is why the others don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phenhn-oJkw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcfqZFWpk9s

[Targa]

I like the Mini's and would like to have a Mini-14 for a fun little range rifle. The only problem I have is that a M&P Sport for 5.56 and a Saiga for 7.62 will do what a Mini does and more for a few hundred dollars less.

[220lover]

Objectively there isn't much the mini 30 can do "better" than an AR15. But there are a few things.

And this is based on an .223 AR.

1) it can be a better round (7.62 X 39) for deer.
2) During the ammo shortage it was one of the few available rounds
3) it is still an inexpensive round...relatively
4) it is far more politically correct without a pistol grip

And that's about it...

[sigp226wgerman]

Why would anyone buy a Mini 30? One of the big pros of getting a rifle chambered in 7.62x39 is shooting steel cased ammo, and the Mini 30 can't do this. Mini 30s are also $800, more expensive than an AK, or for about $150 more you can get an Arsenal, one of the best production AKs out there.

Comparing a Mini 30 to an AR is apples and oranges. AK is a much better comparison, and is better than the M30 in every way.

[tahunua001]

Sig,
on what do you base the statement that M30s can't handle steel cased ammo? for years a major controversial argument was to get a mini14 over an AR because ARs couldn't handle steel cased.

[amd6547]

The problems Mini 30s have with steel cased ammo was discussed briefly in this months American Rifleman, in response to a readers letter.
I'd take an unconverted Saiga over a Mini30 any day.

[Bushmaster1313]

I once had a mini-30
6 MOA accuracy

[sigp226wgerman]

I think Ruger recommended not shooting steel cased in the 30 a while back. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[darkgael]

With a nice, match-grade barrel they sure can be.

Can be as accurate as an AR? Hmmm. I will believe that when I start seeing the Mini winning Service Rifle matches.
Pete

[bamaranger]

I knew that this one would draw a lot of fire, ....didn't everybody?

Hey I like the Mini-30. I like the 7.62x39mm round. I've had one since the Clinton/Reno era, and it has been shot plenty, and has not given me a bit of trouble. Mines got a wood stock, blue steel, and I scared up a wood hand guard for it as well, and the M14/retro appearance I find appealing. As a sporting/utility rifle they are great. I would recommend one ahead of an SKS and even an average AK clone as a sporter/truck gun. And I believe the heavier .30 slug has some merit on larger hog/deer size game v. .223. (more scorch material). And I'm a big Ruger fan overall, although "New Ruger" leaves me a bit cold.

But the Mini family, and the Mini30 in particular, comes up short v. the AR. One area is cost. An entirely practical AR carbine can be had these days for about $600 bucks. The Mini is not near the bargain it was initially, and when Colt was the only maker of AR's. The AR, once purchased, can be easliy upgraded, modified with an aftermarket supply net that is absolutely huge. And there are many good AR companies these days. Not so the Mini.

And while the Mini14 had a huge following in its early years, the mini30 does not. The big drawback there is that RELIABLE hi-cap Mini30 mags are nearly non existant. The factory 20 rd box is a great thing, but they are not common, and far from affordable. Factory mini14 mags are a bit more common. But neither are as common, or as affordable as AR mags. P-mags and other good AR mags, seem about everywhere. Ding a mini30 factory 20 rd box and you in for a search. And they will ding. And you will be out $40.00 plus.

Fast mag changes on the Mini's are problematic. Not so the AR. The AR safety is well known and ergonomic, the MIni's Garand derived blade is a throwback. You oughta see the RO's trying to clear and lock the Mini30 at a 3 gun match!!!!!! I will consent that the traditionally stocked Mini's swing and point better than an AR or pistol grip for me.

I'm keeping mine (mini30) for hunting and as a utility carbine. But were I to knowingly go in harms way, and had a choice, between the two, it would be with an AR.

[Skans]

I've heard from several firearms instructors that mini's are nothing more than glorified target rifles, and that they will not survive abuse and/or high round count.

The AR15 v Mini-14 is an old battle. Whichever rifle you like better doesn't matter to me, but the above simply isn't true. The AC556 was made to handle the same level of full-auto fire as the AR's 90%-identical cousin, the M16. The AC556 is no more rugged than its 90%-identical cousin, the Mini-14.

The important differences between the two formats are:

1. AR - chrome lined barrels available; Mini - not available
2. Barrels on the AR are easier to swap
3. AR needs a little more cleaning to keep it functioning than does the Mini
4. AR receivers will show more superficial wear than the Mini due to it being aluminum. Doesn't really affect performance, though.
5. The BCG on the AR needs a little more maintenance than the bolt on a Mini - i.e. gas rings and staked key.
6. Mini's factory magazines are more robust than' the AR's, but they are a little more difficult to insert and a lot more expensive.
7. Mini is capable of being as accurate as an AR, but that means fitting an expensive barrel to it, and possibly replacing the gas block - must be done by qualified gunsmith.

Both platforms have been around for a long time. IMHO, just because one gets picked up by the US military and the other doesn't, does not make one superior over the other.

Personally, I'd rather have a customized Mini-14 or Mini-30 than a tricked out AR. My only reasoning is that I think a nicely done Mini is classier than a tricked-out AR. But, it's just aesthetics and personal taste - not so much performance.

[9x19]

I will believe that when I start seeing the Mini winning Service Rifle matches.
Pete

Can a non-service rifle be used in a service rifle match?

[Sarge]

If you've got a 2MOA Mini 30, you'd better keep it. Is yours a 580 Series or later?

[huskytaio]

Since I got out of the service in 1977, I have always had ARs, updating as the years went by. Currently with M4 and older CAR15-A2.

I have always wanted the Mini to pan out for one good reason: it looks so much more low profile to the general public and media than the "assault rifle" AR. But over the years, the 223 version had poor sights and AK type accurracy at 100 yards. It may have improved some but still not up to AR standards.

The Mini 14 will also heat up quicker than an AR, designed for combat, and your groups will get even bigger. I was always hoping for a Mini in the 30 Russian round, but with scarce and/or expensive mags, and not being able to use the thousands of rounds of AK ammo I already have, it is still not a rifle I would seek out.

Sig did it right the 2nd time. Their Sig 556R 2nd Gen uses all AK mags and all ammo, is much more accurate than the AK, and looks more like a LE rifle than the evil/bad guy AK as portrayed in the media.

[JD0x0]

The mini14 target groups pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7meJUnKt4VE

That's a pretty tight group for 20 rounds at a rapid pace (not letting barrel cool), even if the range is on the short side.