The Judge

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If my not agreeing with poor choices offends someone, then they can be offended. It is that simple. The Judge is not an optimal weapon and is a gimmick for home defence to avoid obtaining competence.

[Targa]

Not offended by that at all, I would imagine that there countless others on this forum alone that agree a Judge is a poor choice for any kind of defense.
It is the manner in which you do it that has me shaking my head.
If someone doesn't agree with you they have a personal problem wallowing in their conviction? If they use a particular firearm they are compensating for their lack of competency? And at the same time talk about being polite in addressing their poor decision, which might very well not be a poor decision just one you disagree with.

[buck460XVR]

I would prefer telling someone that their choice is not optimal and/or dangerous. If they can't take that and want to wallow in the conviction that they are correct, that is their personal problem.

Similar to how you are now wallowing in the conviction you are correct?

Learn how to use a SW Model 10 or Glock 19 (or similar) for home defense and cut the crap of thinking some magic gimmick will substitute for competence.

Again, for my personal SD scenarios, I have, I believe, better options than a Judge or a Governor. If I lived in a big city, had a daily commute thru areas of high crime, a Judge or Governor would certainly be a major consideration. While their heft and size do not make for a carry weapon, it makes for a easy to grab gun from the console or under the seat and some of the platform specific ammo made for them would work great at thru the open car door/window in a car jacking/road rage scenario. Same goes for those home invasion scenarios in a small apartment where the maximum distance is never more than ten feet. Still, one needs to practice and be proficient. You continue to claim that the only reason folks buy a Judge/Governor is because they are not familiar with and not proficient with any type of firearm, basically too ignorant to know better and they need to listen to you to tell them what they really need. That's a pretty deep wallow. What works for you might not be the best for me, regardless of how much wallowing either of us does. While I don't own a Judge, I have a coupla friends that do. One has MS and has gotten to the point where he cannot hold and aim a regular firearm very well anymore. Thus he feels more confident with his Judge and multiple projectiles for his nightstand gun. The other one has it just for ships and giggles at the range shooting water jugs and pumkins. I don't see either one of them wallowing near as much as you.

[Strafer Gott]

Of course we can be polite! Let's cut the crap and you go first, STAFF.

Anyone who chooses a Judge is not incompetent.

That's some pretty bad preterition you got going on up in there.

[Real Gun]

The people most critical of a Judge are those who have never shot one.

[Cheapshooter]

The people most critical of a Judge are those who have never shot one.

Of course we can be polite! Let's cut the crap and you go first, STAFF.

Anyone who chooses a Judge is not incompetent.

That's some pretty bad preterition you got going on up in there.

[jimbob86]

The people most critical of a Judge are those who have never shot one.
__________________

I'm pretty sure I'm the most critical of the Judge , and I've shot one one.

Less than useful (legally and personally hazardous) with birdshot, lacks sufficient penetration with buckshot due to low velocity for short barrel, and only marginally effective as a large framed, 5 shot 45LC revolver with an bad trigger..... that pretty much sums it up, except for the blatantly dishonest marketing campaign that launched the fool thing into commercial success...... all at a cost that could buy a decent budget wonder9, and a basic class on using it...... but y'all know that already, yet are still married to the idea that it's a pocket shotty ...... whatever.

[Targa]

Now that's how you disagree with something ..^^^

[jimbob86]

The Prosecution Rests.

[Cheapshooter]

The Prosecution Rests.

Obviously with only circumstantial evidence, hear say, and false speculation.
But not examining the evidence to the contrary on every point provided in video evidence exhibits A, and B from post #43
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVXuspaJtE
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ZDMDd4eAQO0

[peggysue]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNVXuspaJtE&app=desktop

[TruthTellers]

You know, a lot of people say a lot about 000 buck not penetrating deep enough from a handgun, but again, it comes down to are you saying that about the Federal .410 handgun load with 4 pellets of copper plated buck or the other .410 with 3 pellets of lead pellets not meant for handguns?

Even if EVERY .410 000 buck load failed to penetrate 12 inches, that doesn't mean that it's incapable of STOPPING a threat from hurting you.

The point is to stop. If one, two, three, or more shots of .410 buckshot from a handgun doesn't do it, nothing will. You can't bank on a CNS hit with every shot fired.

[Old Stony]

Very interesting videos taking into consideration ammo designed specifically for the Judge vs. regular shotgun ammo. In that context, it does seem like a reasonably effective defensive handgun...the only drawback as I see it though is the quality of the firearm. I am still not a fan of Taurus quality, and I think there are a lot of improvements that could be made in that area.

[75218ron]

Targa: One needs to humble oneself at times and listen to people that are qualified to give good advice.

[Real Gun]

Targa: One needs to humble oneself at times and listen to people that are qualified to give good advice.

Only staff get away with being disrespectful. I think it is fine to be critical of a gun. I think it is fine to have an opinion about proper application of a type of gun or cartridge. I don't think it is okay to be disrespectful of the decision to own one.

I don't think much of relying on pocket guns, but I am not going to be obnoxious about it.

[Cheapshooter]

.the only drawback as I see it though is the quality of the firearm. I am still not a fan of Taurus quality, and I think there are a lot of improvements that could be made in that area.

Where I can see that as an issue for some I can't from my own experience with Taurus agree. My PD Poly has had no issues other an ammo related problem with off the shelf 410 shotgun ammo from Winchester. Nothing I have tried for SD has given me any problems.Even the smaller "snake shot" from Remington, Winchester, and Federal has been fine. One batch of SuperX #6 might have been the problem.
I still contend that had S&W came out with the Governor before Taurus introduced the Judge it would have been praised by many of the same critics as one of the greatest close range SD weapons in modern history. Taurus hate trumps all objective thinking.

[Targa]

Cheapshooter stop with this silliness and humble yourself to seek guidance from those that are qualified. I think things will be easier once you realize that Taurus junk will most likely blow up in your hand and if it does'nt those .410 shells will be lucky to punch through paper..... Another perk to getting rid of that Judge is that you will finally be unshackled to learn how to actually become a competent shooter...

[Cheapshooter]

Now THAT'S funny right there!

[rodfac]

Hickok45 had a good review on his U-tube presentation. That said, a friend brought over his Judge a cpl years ago (an early one?) that didn't perform anywhere near what Hickok45's did.

I suspect the tailored ammunition now available for short handgun barrels has a lot to do with it. At the time, #4 buck shot merely dented our poplar fence rails from 7 yds, with a 1 foot wide pattern, and the .45 LC Cowboy commercial loads we tried from the same distance, keyholed, albeit with a 4" group. YMMV, but watch Hickok's video, the larger buckshot did well though hitting very high as did the .45 LC loads. Rod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Old Stony

I am still not a fan of Taurus quality, and I think there are a lot of improvements that could be made in that area.

I agree. For every 2 people that have not had an issue with a Taurus, there's at least 1 that has. I've heard from enough different sources that when Taurus Customer Service is contacted, it's not a pleasant or successful experience.

Personally, I would not buy a new Taurus handgun and would rather buy a used one from a friend or co-worker who has had one for a long time and proven it to be reliable.

Because of that, I bought a .410 derringer that will not win any awards in a beauty contest, but it shoots .410 and I do expect it to throw a pattern of buckshot out to 10 yards with good effect and to hold up over the few times I shoot it.

I think the S&W Governor is a well made, but expensive piece that's a bit too light for the .410 buckshoot. If Ruger would make a .410 revolver, I'd buy that thing up real fast, but they don't seem interested in doing that.

[turkeestalker]

My good friend's son was looking to buy his first hand gun, and was fixated on buying a Judge. Neither of us quite understood why, but it was what he wanted and his own money.

On a Saturday gun store crawl with his father, he wound up purchasing a Governor instead. Not sure if it was actually new old stock or used, but in the box with all the paper work and the shell casing envelope is dated 2014.

The $900.00 price tag would have had me running back to the Judge for something that I've always viewed as a gimmick more than anything else.
But that was my personal opinion, nothing more.

First trip to the range we shot clays to start, and just had to try it with his new toy. Clays with a hand gun, sounded challenging and way fun.

I brought along a box of #6 shells to try out his new toy, fired only six rounds and never touched a bird. Between his father, my oldest, and he himself, they fired the rest of that box of mine and a box of buckshot that he had brought and none of them touched a bird. Seemed the pattern just spread too wide too soon to catch up with a bird from an auto thrower, I don't know.

Moved to the pistol range.
It is hard to say because the boy is really still learning to shoot hand guns. His father doesn't have many, and though he has fired a number of mine at different times, he's still pretty new to them and his range time has been limited.

That said, the Governor's performance did not seem all that stellar with .45 Colt or .45 ACP, though I did not fire it myself with either.
I would have, but did not get the chance before he was standing at my bench holding the cylinder and crane in one hand, and the frame in his other asking me how to put it back together.

The crane retention screw had worked its way out without him noticing and the cylinder hit the concrete upon opening it.
Scars from the fall on it, scars on the frame from him trying to put it back in himself.
As bad as I felt for not having been paying closer attention to what was going on, it didn't begin to compare to how he felt after having paid $900.00 of his own money on the gun.

We found the screw, he returned the gun to the shop where he bought it, and it has been back at S&W for about three weeks with no word as of yet.

The platform is interesting and it may be suited for some purpose like those listed in this thread, but I doubt that it would be well suited for them compared to other options.
I also don't think that changes whether it is a Taurus Judge or Smith & Wesson Governor.

That however is just my opinion based on very limited experience.

[turkeestalker]

I should add that he only shot it at 7 yards on the pistol range and it was all over and off of an 8" shoot-n-see target with both rounds.

Also, it seemed to me that the threaded barrel of the crane retention screw had half sheered off leaving half inside the frame. The portion still attached to the screw head did have a small dot of the red lock-tite on it or some similar substance.

[rodfac]

Geez, Turkee...that's a sad story for that young man and a lousy start to his handgunning future. Hope S&W makes good on it...and that he finds a more suitable learning piece. We've all made bad choices, but seldom on the first time out. Regrets, Rod

[turkeestalker]

I know right?

Poor kid bought his first shotgun of his own a couple months back.
He chose a 'tacticool' Winchester SXP with the collapsible stock and breeching barrel end and all.
The, I am assuming soldered on, front sight literally fell off before he got to the range with it.
His father used epoxy to reattach it, and it fell off almost immediately when he tried to use it on some clays his first outing with us using it.

The kid has had some rotten luck for his first two purchases of his own.

[Real Gun]

I don't read any of that as a true test of a Judge shooting shot shells, more of a strawman. It is not a skeet gun. Shooting results at 7 yards could be nothing more than poor trigger control, hardly a true test of accuracy from a fledgling shooter. I shot yesterday and had my own issues at 50 feet with guns that did not have the best single action. It is always a challenge not to anticipate recoil and jump on the trigger.