The little battles we must all fight.

In The Ten Ring · March 30, 2018, 01:01 AM

I'm over at Walmart and having the female clerk name some ammo prices for me. The topic of Walmart's new age policy comes up.

The clerk says "I don't know about the age restriction but I do think gun buyers need more evaluation." I then ask "what kind? What's on the test? Who says what's on the test? How much does that test cost? Who grades it? How often do you have to retake it?"

When I applied those standards to other rights, like voting, I could tell she was really perplexed. She had never thought of that.

She had told me her age (19) and I set up a scenario. "Say the min. age for buying a shotgun or rifle is raised to 21 by federal law. Say you move out from home and are living alone and break up with your boyfriend. He begins stalking you. He wants to kill you. How are you going to protect yourself?"

That seemed to really get her thinking! I related the story a few years ago of the New Jersey woman that had applied for a pistol buying permit but during the months-long wait, the stalking X stabbed her to death in her driveway.

After I paid my bill (you can pay for all your items at the gun counter) I asked her "how was the discussion? Calm and thought-provoking?" She sad "yes it was" and we did a fist bump. I wished her a happy Easter.

Did I change her mind? Maybe, maybe not, but I did get her to think in ways she hadn't before.

armoredman · March 30, 2018, 02:35 AM

Amen, well done.

4EVERM-14 · March 30, 2018, 06:22 AM

Humans respond better to the spoken word then the written. Hearing a voice express an opinion develops a connection between the two. Conversation trumps a lecture when trying to influence someone.. The OP engaged the clerk in an open discussion and established a civilized bond of exchanging ideas. This tact is more successful in helping our side educate those not familiar with guns and shooting. We all need to follow the OP's lead by simply chatting with others.
Well done Sir.

jmr40 · March 30, 2018, 07:21 AM

I'm not opposed to bumping the legal age for "EVERYTHING ADULT" back to 21 where it belongs.

I could legally purchase alcohol most of my senior year in HS. The legal age was 18, but moved to 21 afterward because 18-21 year old's proved they couldn't be responsible. Why not do the same with firearms and for the same reason.

The age to vote was 21 until 1975 when it was lowered to 18. There is a push to lower it to 16. Do you really want impressionable 16 year old's deciding who our leaders are. I say move it back to 21. I don't think 18-21 year old's have the maturity to make responsible choices.

The legal age for the military draft used to be 21. It was lowered to 18 at the beginning of WW-2 and has been changed several times ranging between 18 or 19.

Quote:

Say you move out from home and are living alone and break up with your boyfriend. He begins stalking you. He wants to kill you. How are you going to protect yourself?"

What if she were 16 or 17. There has to be a cutoff somewhere and 18-21 year old kids today have proven that as a group to be much less mature than previous generations.

And there are ways around that. Even today it is not legal for an 18 year old to purchase a handgun through an FFL. But it is not illegal to posses a handgun in most states if you're 18 or older. If my 19 or 20 year old daughter were in that situation I could legally loan, or even sell her via private transaction, a handgun to keep in her home.

There is no way the 18 year old in Florida should have been able to own any gun. The system failed on many different levels. As gun owners we can't just say no to everything. At some point we need to step up and be part of the solution to keeping firearms out of the hands of those who just make us all look bad. If we don't, someone else will dictate those conditions to us, and it will be a lot worse than moving the legal age back to 21.

Onward Allusion · March 30, 2018, 07:48 AM

Good job!

Over the years, I've learned that questions trump lectures and direct orders. You asked the right questions. Most humans aren't totally dense and will arrive at some semblance of a logical answer.

UncleEd · March 30, 2018, 07:55 AM

JMR40,

Well said.

In the abstract an 18 year old is fully adult but
in reality a few more years are needed during
which time greater judgment is gained.

The 25 year old standard for a congressional
representative is well-thought out.

In the case of voting at 18, political
history shows that that is more often a
benefit to those who want societal change
or should we call it liberalism.

cw308 · March 30, 2018, 08:37 AM

WELL DONE. I also start out , What if , they always start out first with that blank stare , they never thought of a bad situation where arming yourself would be a good thing . 911 is a good thing , 90% of the time the problem already happened before Police arrive. Crazy world were living in now . Be Ready , Be Safe .

Bartholomew Roberts · March 30, 2018, 10:07 AM

Well done! Kudos for choosing to engage in a civil conversation instead of just taking the easy path and walking away or the even worse option of venting your emotions right back in kind.

tony pasley · March 30, 2018, 12:28 PM

Good job, I will have similar conversations if they are willing to listen. With my grand daughter and 2 of her friends, all they wanted to talk about was protecting children so I ask what they thought of changing the driving age up to protect children because that is when they are at most risk. They were to keen on that. next was failing the entire class if 1 person cheats on a test, they did not think punishing every one because of some ones else's cheating was fail either, then I connected the dots not one of them joined the walkout.

Koolmoose · March 30, 2018, 10:47 PM

Thank you, great job.!

LogicMan · March 30, 2018, 11:42 PM

Yes, always be civilized as a gun rights proponent.

**4V50 Gary** · March 31, 2018, 01:04 PM

Well done In The Ten Ring.

I did a similar thing with an anti when I asked, "Let's say there's a nationally famous murderer rapist in our area. Maybe you don't care about your life and you won't use deadly force to protect yourself, but what about your roommate? What if your roommate is sick and incapacitated with no means of self-defense? Don't you think your roommate's life is more important than the murder-rapist's? I think both your lives are more important, but that's just my opinion and it's not shared by that murderer rapist." Gears were spinning.

357 Python · March 31, 2018, 01:14 PM

Sounds to me that you made her stop and really think for a moment. Sometimes that is all it takes.

Pahoo · March 31, 2018, 01:25 PM

Prior to Iowa going "Shall-Issue", I attended a county meeting on the subject one of the spokes-person was a State Congresswomen. She introduce the meeting and ended with the statement that it was her feelings that their were too many "Guns" on the street. After a few moments of no one speaking, I stood up and thanked the Congresswomen for her introduction and glad she had qualified it as being her opinion without facts. Then proceeded to state my opinion. I guess I broke the ice as others stated theirs. ....

Be Safe !!!

32 Special · March 31, 2018, 08:36 PM

Beautiful...challenging people to think and doing so calmy is an art form.

Pahoo · April 1, 2018, 02:25 PM

Responsible gun owners do not like confrontations. They just want the lies to go away so we can carry on with our hobby. However, there comes a time when we have to push back, in our own best and constructive ways. It take more action than just keeping silent and making another donation to the NRA. .....

In an assertive and positive manner, we can do this and must. Their lies can stand for just so long but can and will be propagated for a long time if we just let it pass. ...

I stay informed on when town-hall meeting are held on gun control. I usually just ask questions that they can't or won't answer. I've had a number of folks thank me and then some that don't re-invite me. .....

L.B.C. and;
Be Safe !!!

**Spats McGee** · April 1, 2018, 02:31 PM

Well done, In The Ten Ring.

When I see thread's like this, I think of Capt Charlie's signature:

Quote:

TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?

The same goes for how we present ourselves to the public.

rickyrick · April 2, 2018, 12:17 AM

I’ve been reporting official movie trailers that feature guns as offensive, also music videos. They probably don’t care, but hey, it is what it is. I’m trying to figure out how to start a petition to get Target stores to change their name and that offensive logo. I mean, targets have only one purpose... to practice with weapons.
I know it’s pointless, but hey, it is clearly a target. And guns on YouTube is guns on YouTube. Standards is standards.

March 30, 2018, 01:01 AM	#1
In The Ten Ring Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2018 Posts: 380	The little battles we must all fight. I'm over at Walmart and having the female clerk name some ammo prices for me. The topic of Walmart's new age policy comes up. The clerk says "I don't know about the age restriction but I do think gun buyers need more evaluation." I then ask "what kind? What's on the test? Who says what's on the test? How much does that test cost? Who grades it? How often do you have to retake it?" When I applied those standards to other rights, like voting, I could tell she was really perplexed. She had never thought of that. She had told me her age (19) and I set up a scenario. "Say the min. age for buying a shotgun or rifle is raised to 21 by federal law. Say you move out from home and are living alone and break up with your boyfriend. He begins stalking you. He wants to kill you. How are you going to protect yourself?" That seemed to really get her thinking! I related the story a few years ago of the New Jersey woman that had applied for a pistol buying permit but during the months-long wait, the stalking X stabbed her to death in her driveway. After I paid my bill (you can pay for all your items at the gun counter) I asked her "how was the discussion? Calm and thought-provoking?" She sad "yes it was" and we did a fist bump. I wished her a happy Easter. Did I change her mind? Maybe, maybe not, but I did get her to think in ways she hadn't before.

March 30, 2018, 06:22 AM	#3
4EVERM-14 Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2006 Location: Pennsy Posts: 720	Humans respond better to the spoken word then the written. Hearing a voice express an opinion develops a connection between the two. Conversation trumps a lecture when trying to influence someone.. The OP engaged the clerk in an open discussion and established a civilized bond of exchanging ideas. This tact is more successful in helping our side educate those not familiar with guns and shooting. We all need to follow the OP's lead by simply chatting with others. Well done Sir. __________________ David NRA Benefactor Member Distinguished Rifleman #731 Presidents 100

March 30, 2018, 07:48 AM	#5
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	Good job! Over the years, I've learned that questions trump lectures and direct orders. You asked the right questions. Most humans aren't totally dense and will arrive at some semblance of a logical answer. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

March 30, 2018, 12:28 PM	#9
tony pasley Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2006 Location: western north carolina Posts: 1,641	Good job, I will have similar conversations if they are willing to listen. With my grand daughter and 2 of her friends, all they wanted to talk about was protecting children so I ask what they thought of changing the driving age up to protect children because that is when they are at most risk. They were to keen on that. next was failing the entire class if 1 person cheats on a test, they did not think punishing every one because of some ones else's cheating was fail either, then I connected the dots not one of them joined the walkout. __________________ Every day Congress is in session we lose a little bit more of our Liberty.

March 30, 2018, 10:47 PM	#10
Koolmoose Member Join Date: March 2, 2010 Location: Cape Cod Posts: 17	Thank you, great job.! __________________ Steve, "Use Enough Gun" - Robert Ruark

March 30, 2018, 02:35 AM	#2
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,297	Amen, well done.

March 30, 2018, 07:55 AM	#6
UncleEd Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Location: N. Georgia Posts: 1,150	JMR40, Well said. In the abstract an 18 year old is fully adult but in reality a few more years are needed during which time greater judgment is gained. The 25 year old standard for a congressional representative is well-thought out. In the case of voting at 18, political history shows that that is more often a benefit to those who want societal change or should we call it liberalism.

March 30, 2018, 08:37 AM	#7
cw308 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2010 Location: Plainview , Long Island NY Posts: 3,863	WELL DONE. I also start out , What if , they always start out first with that blank stare , they never thought of a bad situation where arming yourself would be a good thing . 911 is a good thing , 90% of the time the problem already happened before Police arrive. Crazy world were living in now . Be Ready , Be Safe .

March 30, 2018, 10:07 AM	#8
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Well done! Kudos for choosing to engage in a civil conversation instead of just taking the easy path and walking away or the even worse option of venting your emotions right back in kind.

March 30, 2018, 11:42 PM	#11
LogicMan Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 280	Yes, always be civilized as a gun rights proponent.

March 31, 2018, 01:04 PM	#12
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Well done In The Ten Ring. I did a similar thing with an anti when I asked, "Let's say there's a nationally famous murderer rapist in our area. Maybe you don't care about your life and you won't use deadly force to protect yourself, but what about your roommate? What if your roommate is sick and incapacitated with no means of self-defense? Don't you think your roommate's life is more important than the murder-rapist's? I think both your lives are more important, but that's just my opinion and it's not shared by that murderer rapist." Gears were spinning. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

March 31, 2018, 01:14 PM	#13
357 Python Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: Charlottesville, VA Posts: 941	Sounds to me that you made her stop and really think for a moment. Sometimes that is all it takes.

March 31, 2018, 01:25 PM	#14
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	What is the value of an opinion Prior to Iowa going "Shall-Issue", I attended a county meeting on the subject one of the spokes-person was a State Congresswomen. She introduce the meeting and ended with the statement that it was her feelings that their were too many "Guns" on the street. After a few moments of no one speaking, I stood up and thanked the Congresswomen for her introduction and glad she had qualified it as being her opinion without facts. Then proceeded to state my opinion. I guess I broke the ice as others stated theirs. .... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

March 31, 2018, 08:36 PM	#15
32 Special Junior Member Join Date: March 14, 2018 Posts: 2	Beautiful...challenging people to think and doing so calmy is an art form.

April 1, 2018, 02:25 PM	#16
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Face what you fear !!! Responsible gun owners do not like confrontations. They just want the lies to go away so we can carry on with our hobby. However, there comes a time when we have to push back, in our own best and constructive ways. It take more action than just keeping silent and making another donation to the NRA. ..... In an assertive and positive manner, we can do this and must. Their lies can stand for just so long but can and will be propagated for a long time if we just let it pass. ... I stay informed on when town-hall meeting are held on gun control. I usually just ask questions that they can't or won't answer. I've had a number of folks thank me and then some that don't re-invite me. ..... L.B.C. and; Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

April 2, 2018, 12:17 AM	#18
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,236	I’ve been reporting official movie trailers that feature guns as offensive, also music videos. They probably don’t care, but hey, it is what it is. I’m trying to figure out how to start a petition to get Target stores to change their name and that offensive logo. I mean, targets have only one purpose... to practice with weapons. I know it’s pointless, but hey, it is clearly a target. And guns on YouTube is guns on YouTube. Standards is standards.