New BP Revolver

Kvon2 · April 29, 2017, 08:52 PM

Picked up a Pietta 1860 Army this week and am very excited about it!

I think I have most of what I need to get it out to the range next weekend but I did have one question. Im seeing a lot of conflicting views on using wads. I saw they were inexpensive but couldn't find any at gander mountain today. I could order them but I don't need anything else and don't really want to pay shipping for something so inexpensive.

My question is, do I really need them? I understand it decreases the risk of chain fires. My revolver is chambered in .44 and I'll be using .454 round balls and my understanding is that should make a pretty solid seal.

What are your guy's thoughts?

Lee44ShooterCnB · April 29, 2017, 09:07 PM

Measure each cylinder to be sure
As long as you are shaving off a ring of lead when the ball is rammed down, you should be fine. If you still feel uncomfortable, put some lube on each cylinder.

Bishop Creek · April 29, 2017, 09:25 PM

I use lubed wads or lube cookies above the powder and under the ball keep fouling down. More shoots before cleaning when shooting. Black powder fouls your gun rather quickly without lube of some kind.

I have had only one chain fire in 50 years of shooting cap and ball revolvers and that was back in 1970 when I was using no lube of any kind (most of us had never heard of using lube at the time).

Beagle333 · April 29, 2017, 10:25 PM

It's up to you. I don't use lubed wads, or any wads, but I do use lube over the ball.

Hawg · April 29, 2017, 11:07 PM

Lube over the ball is generally messy because most people use way too much. I prefer a lubed wad under it but a lube cookie under it works well also.

rodwhaincamo · April 30, 2017, 02:20 AM

In the mid 1800's nobody used a wad or lube over the projectile...

I shot plenty of cylinders without a lubed wad (after I made my own) and all was just fine.

noelf2 · April 30, 2017, 07:21 AM

Make sure you use the right caps. IMHO, caps falling off under recoil accounts for the most chainfires. It's also MHO that chainfires are not that big a deal. It will surprise you, but they aren't particularly destructive.

**4V50 Gary** · April 30, 2017, 08:55 AM

Elmer Keith also felt cap fit was important.

Hawg · April 30, 2017, 09:57 AM

I've got one that will chain if you don't use a wad or lube but it won't if you leave five caps off and do use a wad or lube.

roashooter · April 30, 2017, 10:06 AM

I have one that wont chain fire

Nodak1858 · April 30, 2017, 10:28 AM

Normally I use lube over or mostly wads now.
I picked up another 1858 this spring and figured I'd give no lube and no wads a try. The caps fit on very tight and the balls all shaved off a nice ring. I had zero issues and shot the gun until it got too dirty to rotate the cylinder. I will have no qualms in the future if I have to shoot without wads of grease, BUT i will be using them no the less. The fouling is much softer using some kind of lube and I can stay out shooting longer.

Model12Win · April 30, 2017, 12:00 PM

Make up a lube cookies and smash them down atop the balls before firing for the first time. This will prevent chainfires and make for a smooth shot down the bore.

sixgunnin · April 30, 2017, 12:14 PM

Quote:

In the mid 1800's nobody used a wad or lube over the projectile...

I shot plenty of cylinders without a lubed wad (after I made my own) and all was just fine.

Really? I have tried it without grease and the cylinder would not turn after 6 shots with Pyrodex

Hawg · April 30, 2017, 01:25 PM

Quote:

In the mid 1800's nobody used a wad or lube over the projectile...

Sure they used wads. If they didn't Colt wouldn't have advised against their use. Some used wax over the balls, probably more for waterproofing but still used.

Bishop Creek · April 30, 2017, 02:34 PM

Right Hawg, and we need to keep in mind that in the 19th Century, they would load their revolvers for use later, then in an emergency, fire it then clean it and reload for use next time. No shooting a 100 rounds at the range like we do.

rodwhaincamo · April 30, 2017, 07:12 PM

"Really? I have tried it without grease and the cylinder would not turn after 6 shots with Pyrodex"

Ruger Old Army and using Triple 7. I got away from using a ball in my cap n ball pistols after I got a custom mold from Accurate around the time I got my Remington NMA.

rodwhaincamo · April 30, 2017, 07:33 PM

"Sure they used wads. If they didn't Colt wouldn't have advised against their use. Some used wax over the balls, probably more for waterproofing but still used."

Though it's been some time I had been reading a thread in a traditional forum stating that wads are a 21st century accessory, and that there is no documentation in military usage of such.

Also Colt himself dementrated how his revolver could be loaded and placed in a tub of water while he discussed his pistol without any wax or other sealant and would discharge each chamber afterwards. But then that's not a lube either. None of the conicals I've seen even came with a lube groove, though I've certainly not researched this extensively. My understanding is that lubes weren't used until the cartridge days.

If wads were used prior to the 21st century I'd certainly like to see it.

Hawg · April 30, 2017, 08:41 PM

Quote:

If wads were used prior to the 21st century I'd certainly like to see it.

Wads abounded in the 20th century

If you need proof they were used in the 19th century look at the loading procedures outlined in presentation cases of the time.

**4V50 Gary** · May 1, 2017, 09:29 AM

BTW, in the old days instead of a wad we used rancid cornmeal or farina as a filler between the powder and the ball. Feed the wildlife while you shoot.

Hawg · May 1, 2017, 10:17 AM

Quote:

If wads were used prior to the 21st century I'd certainly like to see it.

By saying not to use them that would mean they were well known.

drobs · May 1, 2017, 11:14 AM

Most of these gentlemen here have been shooting BP longer than I and are older than I am.

That being said, I love shooting my pair of Pietta 1860 Colts. I use .454 diameter ball, wonder wads under the ball over 30gr of FFFg powder, and #10 Remington caps.

I put a dab of TC Bore Butter on the Arbors of each revolver.

I started shooting a Pietta NMA 1858 before buying the 1860's with ball over Pyrodex Pellets (no lube at all). It worked fine but quickly gummed up.

Not too long ago I bought 1k wads and 1k 454 ball from DD4lifeusmc, overseas work keeps getting in the way of shooting.

What am I getting at - you should be fine to shoot ball over powder this time but to keep barrel fouling down - try some wads next time or down the line.

Hawg · May 1, 2017, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Though it's been some time I had been reading a thread in a traditional forum stating that wads are a 21st century accessory, and that there is no documentation in military usage of such.

I overlooked this statement before. Of course there isn't any documentation of military usage because the military didn't use them. The military loads were all paper cartridges with conical bullets. Methinks you have your centuries mixed up.

rodwhaincamo · May 1, 2017, 03:37 PM

Hmmm... I certainly don't know. But those on the traditional site seem quite certain wads weren't used until the mid 1900's. I've not cared enough to research it though but have just read what others who seem to have had said.

deerslayer303 · May 1, 2017, 03:41 PM

The first 6 shots out of my '58 NMA has a lubed wad between the powder and ball and lube over the ball. My lube is 1:8 tallow and beezwax. After that it's just the wad only. The lube over tha ball for the first six helps lube the cylinder pin, even though it has lube on it to start with. I have tried shoot the NMA with no lube or wad and well, the cylinder doesn't want to rotate very well after 6 shots. Now the Open tops are a different story. And seem to be more forgiving on the lack of lube, with just some on the Arbor. Especially my Goonerized one. The barrel to cylinder gap is so small you can fire it a very long time woth just lubed wads.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Bishop Creek · May 1, 2017, 06:08 PM

I started shooting cap and ball revolvers in the late 1960s and no one at that time, that I was aware of, used any kind of wads. I first used them when Wonder Wads were introduced in the late '70s as I recall.

I'm wondering if Colt's instructions not to use wads were aimed at folks that had never used a revolver before and were used to stuffing a wad (patch) down a single shot pistol or rifle barrel.

April 29, 2017, 10:25 PM	#4
Beagle333 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: Auburn, AL. Posts: 2,332	It's up to you. I don't use lubed wads, or any wads, but I do use lube over the ball. __________________ . . . Have a Colt and a smile.

April 30, 2017, 07:21 AM	#7
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Make sure you use the right caps. IMHO, caps falling off under recoil accounts for the most chainfires. It's also MHO that chainfires are not that big a deal. It will surprise you, but they aren't particularly destructive. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

April 30, 2017, 08:55 AM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Elmer Keith also felt cap fit was important. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 30, 2017, 10:28 AM	#11
Nodak1858 Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2009 Location: N. Dakota Posts: 435	Normally I use lube over or mostly wads now. I picked up another 1858 this spring and figured I'd give no lube and no wads a try. The caps fit on very tight and the balls all shaved off a nice ring. I had zero issues and shot the gun until it got too dirty to rotate the cylinder. I will have no qualms in the future if I have to shoot without wads of grease, BUT i will be using them no the less. The fouling is much softer using some kind of lube and I can stay out shooting longer. __________________ We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

May 1, 2017, 09:29 AM	#19
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	BTW, in the old days instead of a wad we used rancid cornmeal or farina as a filler between the powder and the ball. Feed the wildlife while you shoot. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

April 29, 2017, 08:52 PM	#1
Kvon2 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 757	New BP Revolver Picked up a Pietta 1860 Army this week and am very excited about it! I think I have most of what I need to get it out to the range next weekend but I did have one question. Im seeing a lot of conflicting views on using wads. I saw they were inexpensive but couldn't find any at gander mountain today. I could order them but I don't need anything else and don't really want to pay shipping for something so inexpensive. My question is, do I really need them? I understand it decreases the risk of chain fires. My revolver is chambered in .44 and I'll be using .454 round balls and my understanding is that should make a pretty solid seal. What are your guy's thoughts?

April 29, 2017, 09:07 PM	#2
Lee44ShooterCnB Member Join Date: May 13, 2015 Location: Ga. Posts: 68	Measure each cylinder to be sure As long as you are shaving off a ring of lead when the ball is rammed down, you should be fine. If you still feel uncomfortable, put some lube on each cylinder.

April 29, 2017, 09:25 PM	#3
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	I use lubed wads or lube cookies above the powder and under the ball keep fouling down. More shoots before cleaning when shooting. Black powder fouls your gun rather quickly without lube of some kind. I have had only one chain fire in 50 years of shooting cap and ball revolvers and that was back in 1970 when I was using no lube of any kind (most of us had never heard of using lube at the time).

April 29, 2017, 11:07 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Lube over the ball is generally messy because most people use way too much. I prefer a lubed wad under it but a lube cookie under it works well also.

April 30, 2017, 02:20 AM	#6
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	In the mid 1800's nobody used a wad or lube over the projectile... I shot plenty of cylinders without a lubed wad (after I made my own) and all was just fine.

April 30, 2017, 09:57 AM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I've got one that will chain if you don't use a wad or lube but it won't if you leave five caps off and do use a wad or lube.

April 30, 2017, 10:06 AM	#10
roashooter Junior member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Posts: 508	I have one that wont chain fire

April 30, 2017, 12:00 PM	#12
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Make up a lube cookies and smash them down atop the balls before firing for the first time. This will prevent chainfires and make for a smooth shot down the bore.

April 30, 2017, 02:34 PM	#15
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	Right Hawg, and we need to keep in mind that in the 19th Century, they would load their revolvers for use later, then in an emergency, fire it then clean it and reload for use next time. No shooting a 100 rounds at the range like we do.

April 30, 2017, 07:12 PM	#16
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	"Really? I have tried it without grease and the cylinder would not turn after 6 shots with Pyrodex" Ruger Old Army and using Triple 7. I got away from using a ball in my cap n ball pistols after I got a custom mold from Accurate around the time I got my Remington NMA.

April 30, 2017, 07:33 PM	#17
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	"Sure they used wads. If they didn't Colt wouldn't have advised against their use. Some used wax over the balls, probably more for waterproofing but still used." Though it's been some time I had been reading a thread in a traditional forum stating that wads are a 21st century accessory, and that there is no documentation in military usage of such. Also Colt himself dementrated how his revolver could be loaded and placed in a tub of water while he discussed his pistol without any wax or other sealant and would discharge each chamber afterwards. But then that's not a lube either. None of the conicals I've seen even came with a lube groove, though I've certainly not researched this extensively. My understanding is that lubes weren't used until the cartridge days. If wads were used prior to the 21st century I'd certainly like to see it.

May 1, 2017, 11:14 AM	#21
drobs Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2015 Location: South Central MO / Africa Posts: 1,111	Most of these gentlemen here have been shooting BP longer than I and are older than I am. That being said, I love shooting my pair of Pietta 1860 Colts. I use .454 diameter ball, wonder wads under the ball over 30gr of FFFg powder, and #10 Remington caps. I put a dab of TC Bore Butter on the Arbors of each revolver. I started shooting a Pietta NMA 1858 before buying the 1860's with ball over Pyrodex Pellets (no lube at all). It worked fine but quickly gummed up. Not too long ago I bought 1k wads and 1k 454 ball from DD4lifeusmc, overseas work keeps getting in the way of shooting. What am I getting at - you should be fine to shoot ball over powder this time but to keep barrel fouling down - try some wads next time or down the line. __________________ NRA Life Member

May 1, 2017, 03:37 PM	#23
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Hmmm... I certainly don't know. But those on the traditional site seem quite certain wads weren't used until the mid 1900's. I've not cared enough to research it though but have just read what others who seem to have had said.

May 1, 2017, 03:41 PM	#24
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,652	The first 6 shots out of my '58 NMA has a lubed wad between the powder and ball and lube over the ball. My lube is 1:8 tallow and beezwax. After that it's just the wad only. The lube over tha ball for the first six helps lube the cylinder pin, even though it has lube on it to start with. I have tried shoot the NMA with no lube or wad and well, the cylinder doesn't want to rotate very well after 6 shots. Now the Open tops are a different story. And seem to be more forgiving on the lack of lube, with just some on the Arbor. Especially my Goonerized one. The barrel to cylinder gap is so small you can fire it a very long time woth just lubed wads. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

May 1, 2017, 06:08 PM	#25
Bishop Creek Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Posts: 566	I started shooting cap and ball revolvers in the late 1960s and no one at that time, that I was aware of, used any kind of wads. I first used them when Wonder Wads were introduced in the late '70s as I recall. I'm wondering if Colt's instructions not to use wads were aimed at folks that had never used a revolver before and were used to stuffing a wad (patch) down a single shot pistol or rifle barrel.