I need some advice to choose between 2 guns.

Yosh · September 4, 2013, 09:57 PM

Hey guys, I moved to live in Guatemala in December and I need a gun. Its a very dangerous country and everybody carries a gun here. It would be a CCW that I will also carry at work. Its also the first handgun I will own and I expect it to be reliable, with a good capacity and also easy to handle. Here there are a lot of gunfights and they shoot so many rounds, yesterday I saw 2 guys in a motorcycle trying to rob a guy who was in his car, waiting for the stoplight to turn green, when he saw them hitting the glass with the gun he started shooting them and the robbers too. They were both wounded. The news said 29 9mm bullets were shot there so capacity is also very important here. The thing is that the options are way more limited than in USA so I have done some research and I have 2 options down here.
I dont want to run into a discussion about which caliber is better but I could use some advice about it too Ive heard 9mm = faster shooting and higher capacity and .40 = more power on each round, my main concern is about the guns. These are my options:

Smith & Wesson SD40VE 14+1 Imported from USA.

XD 9mm which is imported straight from Croatia skipping the Springfield XD labeling so its the newer version of the HS 2000, the army service pistol on Croatia HS 9mm 16+1 you can check it here
HS produkt

They are both the same price, around US$1100.00.. Damn expensive but thats how limited they are here.
I would love a Glock but they run for more than US$ 2000.00.

MLeake · September 4, 2013, 10:03 PM

Which caliber is easier to acquire in Guatemala?

Feeding the gun can pose challenges. I have no idea how readily available 9mm or .40 are in Guatemala, but think you should look at that.

TXAZ · September 4, 2013, 10:27 PM

+1 what MLeake said ^^^

ripnbst · September 4, 2013, 10:27 PM

With most militaries fielding a 9mm sidearm I'd look into what ammo is available to you as was mentioned. If you aren't sure I would just look at what the police carry and go with that caliber if you can shoot it proficiently.

The 16+1 on the XD is a compact??? That sounds like full size capacity to me but I am not an XD afficianado.

I'd still probably go with the XD and just dress around it. I'd want all the ammo I could carry and I'd probably carry at least one spare mag but more likely two.

Can you get a S&W M&P there?

Colorado Luckydog · September 4, 2013, 10:38 PM

I'd buy the 9mm because ammo will be easier to get where you are. Then I would move back to where you moved from or some where else.

Yosh · September 4, 2013, 11:22 PM

Hey thanks to everybody, I will actually leave Guatemala in January, I work with a mining company that most of the time takes care of us, 1 out of 15 cars here is bulletproof and lots of people have bodyguards, you can get a good one that probably fought in the guerilla not so long ago for about US$300.00 per month. But still it feels like you should have a gun of your own. I might be exagerating with my concern since as I said, we go to guarded areas and move only in certain places but I think I would feel safer If I know I have something to defend myself. Next destination is Brazil also dangerous but less than Guatemala and much less than Honduras.

By the way, 9mm and .40 are both available down here, the thing is that price is almost double and practicing would be way more expensive so if there is really a SIGNIFICATIVE difference in performance I would get the .40SW so I would have an advantage over the 90% carrying 9mm. I heard of .40's being more powerfull than a 45 and both 40 and 45 being way superior than 9mm but I am not experienced in this matter I have never fired .40, only 9mm so I dont know how much more recoil I will feel to put the next round.

RodTheWrench · September 4, 2013, 11:32 PM

Do the 9mm. It's very effective given the right load with much easier follow-up shots than with a 40. The XD is also a proven platform, the S&W Sigma not so much.

45Gunner · September 4, 2013, 11:56 PM

Think I would move to Mexico City where it is obviously safer.

CWKahrFan · September 5, 2013, 12:44 AM

I'd go with the XD... It sells for @ $200 higher than the SWVE in the US and has a much better reputation.

Theohazard · September 5, 2013, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosh

By the way, 9mm and .40 are both available down here, the thing is that price is almost double and practicing would be way more expensive so if there is really a SIGNIFICATIVE difference in performance I would get the .40SW so I would have an advantage over the 90% carrying 9mm. I heard of .40's being more powerfull than a 45 and both 40 and 45 being way superior than 9mm but I am not experienced in this matter I have never fired .40, only 9mm so I dont know how much more recoil I will feel to put the next round.

With modern hollow-points, those three calibers are all basically the same when it comes to effectiveness on the human body. What matters most by far is shot placement. So pick the one you shoot best and can afford to practice with the most.

As far as recoil, the 9mm is a little snappy, the .40 is noticeably snappier, and the .45 is more like a strong push.

bt380 · September 5, 2013, 01:48 AM

I'd take that gun money an buy a plane ticket out of Dodge.

Kreyzhorse · September 5, 2013, 06:14 AM

Out of the two guns I prefer the XD. The Sigma, while reliable, has a pretty poor trigger in my experience.

Additionally, the .40 can be a bit snappy to shoot so if you are a little recoil shy, the 9mm is a little easier to shoot.

Bozz10mm · September 5, 2013, 08:54 AM

Go with the XD 9mm.

**Spats McGee** · September 5, 2013, 09:06 AM

If you're going to be moving around between countries, also consider the legality of probable destinations. For example, if you're going some place where .40 or .45 is not going to be legal, stick with something that is not only legal where you are, but where you will be.

Also pay attention to finishes and other upkeep issues. Search the internet for issues with rust, for example. I'm (sadly) ignorant about the climate in Guatemala and Brazil, but I can only imagine that it's hot and humid, and if this is to be CC'd, you'll want something as rust-resistant as possible.

Erikbal · September 5, 2013, 01:17 PM

I also say go with the 9mm XD. The sigmas are said to be very reliable, but the triggers leave much to be desired.

3.Shot.Group. · September 5, 2013, 04:26 PM

I'd go with a sawed off double barrel in 12 gauge.

Viper99 · September 5, 2013, 04:39 PM

bt380 has the best advice but if you can't do that, may I suggest that since you also mentioned XD, why not the XDm 3.8 9mm? It comes with both a 13 round and a 19 round mag just in case you need that many.

Its nice to know that if you need it, you can have 19 +1 or if you need to carry it concealed, its still 13+1.

carguychris · September 5, 2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWKahrFan

[The XD] sells for @ $200 higher than the SWVE in the US and has a much better reputation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreyzhorse

The Sigma, while reliable, has a pretty poor trigger in my experience.

+1. In addition, the Sigma seems to have a reputation for spotty quality control. Most of them are well-built, run like clockwork, are reasonably accurate, and will cycle anything. Unfortunately- based on a handful of horror stories on this forum and elsewhere- an appreciable number of Sigmas have poor out-of-the-box reliability, cycling problems, and even glaring cosmetic or machining flaws.

S&W has very good customer service, and will generally fix the gun for free for buyers within the USA, including shipping, but I'm not sure how this would work if the gun has to move to and from Guatemala. I'd hate for your gun to get stuck in a bureaucratic logjam in Customs.

Also, just FYI, the SD40 VE is IMHO a big improvement over its predecessors for one primary reason: it takes the same sights as the M&P series, and the front sight fits in a dovetail, so it can be replaced easily. Aside from the earlier SD40 (non-VE), the other earlier Sigma models- the ones with an "SW" prefix- have a plastic front sight that is melted into place. (To be more precise, it is attached with a plastic peg that fits through a hole in the slide, and is then "mushroomed" on the underside with a heating tool, essentially forming its own rivet- an assembly method commonly used on cheap toys.

) The earlier sights have to be destroyed to be removed, and aftermarket replacement options are very limited.

power5 · September 5, 2013, 07:46 PM

Surprised the more plentiful glock is so much more since a G19 is only like $50 more than a XD9.

I would take the XD9.

Actually. Rent a couple body guards for a day and go buy a black market DE. All the drug lords and arms dealers brandish those. Could probably pick one up for a decent price. And if you do have to draw, the BG will simply cower in fear and run away from the scary american BA.

PetahW · September 5, 2013, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spats Mcgee

If you're going to be moving around between countries, also consider the legality of probable destinations. For example, if you're going some place where .40 or .45 is not going to be legal, stick with something that is not only legal where you are, but where you will be.

+1 - Some Latin countries ban military cartridges/chamberings for civilian use.

The 9mm may be banned; the .40 not likely.

.

Ignition Override · September 6, 2013, 12:08 AM

Being TDY in Panama in the early 80s for a week, the humidity felt like Houston TX.

3.Shot.Group. · September 6, 2013, 12:25 AM

If you get the sawed off 12 gauge you'll never have feeding problems, and accuracy won't be an issue.

Trust me, the day that you have to pull out a pistol to defend yourself against a car jacker will be the day that you'll wish you had a sawed off double barreled shotgun.

Yosh · September 6, 2013, 01:10 AM

Transporting a gun every time you move would be a headache, Since guns can be sold like cookies in these countries Id rather sell it and then buy the one available in the next country if I feel I need it.

Actually the sawed Shotgun sounds really good to me, but as I said before Im no expert in the matter. What kind of shotgun would have to be to get the posible to handle length? I have seen that usually shotguns carry bullets all the way to the front, is there any kind of Giant 12 Gauge revolver like the grenade launchers system? Sorry for my ignorance. That would be a hell of a solution in several countries were at least 2 assailants get to your car window. Here they imported a taurus revolver called the judge that uses .410 or some shotgun similar load but they get sold so much its REALLY hard to get one.

Sarge · September 6, 2013, 01:47 AM

Ive owned XD's and Sigma VE's, both in 40 cal. Personally, I preferred the S&W.

3.Shot.Group. · September 6, 2013, 02:10 AM

They make these things, but they're really expensive. So what you'd want to do is start with a coach gun, and saw it off, or have it sawed off, and the stock cut down to a pistol grip.

You probably wouldn't want one in a 12 gauge, due to the recoil, but a 20 gauge with 8" barrels would work very well at PBR.

September 4, 2013, 09:57 PM	#1
Yosh Junior Member Join Date: September 4, 2013 Posts: 5	I need some advice to choose between 2 guns. Hey guys, I moved to live in Guatemala in December and I need a gun. Its a very dangerous country and everybody carries a gun here. It would be a CCW that I will also carry at work. Its also the first handgun I will own and I expect it to be reliable, with a good capacity and also easy to handle. Here there are a lot of gunfights and they shoot so many rounds, yesterday I saw 2 guys in a motorcycle trying to rob a guy who was in his car, waiting for the stoplight to turn green, when he saw them hitting the glass with the gun he started shooting them and the robbers too. They were both wounded. The news said 29 9mm bullets were shot there so capacity is also very important here. The thing is that the options are way more limited than in USA so I have done some research and I have 2 options down here. I dont want to run into a discussion about which caliber is better but I could use some advice about it too Ive heard 9mm = faster shooting and higher capacity and .40 = more power on each round, my main concern is about the guns. These are my options: Smith & Wesson SD40VE 14+1 Imported from USA. XD 9mm which is imported straight from Croatia skipping the Springfield XD labeling so its the newer version of the HS 2000, the army service pistol on Croatia HS 9mm 16+1 you can check it here HS produkt They are both the same price, around US$1100.00.. Damn expensive but thats how limited they are here. I would love a Glock but they run for more than US$ 2000.00.

September 4, 2013, 10:27 PM	#3
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	+1 what MLeake said ^^^ __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

September 4, 2013, 10:27 PM	#4
ripnbst Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 1,552	I need some advice to choose between 2 guns. With most militaries fielding a 9mm sidearm I'd look into what ammo is available to you as was mentioned. If you aren't sure I would just look at what the police carry and go with that caliber if you can shoot it proficiently. The 16+1 on the XD is a compact??? That sounds like full size capacity to me but I am not an XD afficianado. I'd still probably go with the XD and just dress around it. I'd want all the ammo I could carry and I'd probably carry at least one spare mag but more likely two. Can you get a S&W M&P there?

September 4, 2013, 10:38 PM	#5
Colorado Luckydog Junior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Hunting Somewhere In Colorado Posts: 12	I'd buy the 9mm because ammo will be easier to get where you are. Then I would move back to where you moved from or some where else. __________________ You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life. Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill (1874-1965

September 4, 2013, 11:32 PM	#7
RodTheWrench Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2013 Location: Utah Posts: 365	I need some advice to choose between 2 guns. Do the 9mm. It's very effective given the right load with much easier follow-up shots than with a 40. The XD is also a proven platform, the S&W Sigma not so much.

September 4, 2013, 10:03 PM	#2
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Which caliber is easier to acquire in Guatemala? Feeding the gun can pose challenges. I have no idea how readily available 9mm or .40 are in Guatemala, but think you should look at that.

September 4, 2013, 11:22 PM	#6
Yosh Junior Member Join Date: September 4, 2013 Posts: 5	Hey thanks to everybody, I will actually leave Guatemala in January, I work with a mining company that most of the time takes care of us, 1 out of 15 cars here is bulletproof and lots of people have bodyguards, you can get a good one that probably fought in the guerilla not so long ago for about US$300.00 per month. But still it feels like you should have a gun of your own. I might be exagerating with my concern since as I said, we go to guarded areas and move only in certain places but I think I would feel safer If I know I have something to defend myself. Next destination is Brazil also dangerous but less than Guatemala and much less than Honduras. By the way, 9mm and .40 are both available down here, the thing is that price is almost double and practicing would be way more expensive so if there is really a SIGNIFICATIVE difference in performance I would get the .40SW so I would have an advantage over the 90% carrying 9mm. I heard of .40's being more powerfull than a 45 and both 40 and 45 being way superior than 9mm but I am not experienced in this matter I have never fired .40, only 9mm so I dont know how much more recoil I will feel to put the next round.

September 4, 2013, 11:56 PM	#8
45Gunner Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 1,902	Think I would move to Mexico City where it is obviously safer. __________________ 45Gunner May the Schwartz Be With You. NRA Instructor NRA Life Member

September 5, 2013, 12:44 AM	#9
CWKahrFan Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2010 Posts: 2,016	I'd go with the XD... It sells for @ $200 higher than the SWVE in the US and has a much better reputation. __________________ What did Mrs. Bullet say to Mr. Bullet? ... "We're having a BeeBee!"... IF THE SHOE FITS, WEAR IT!... IF THE GUN FITS, SHOOT IT! "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it."

September 5, 2013, 01:48 AM	#11
bt380 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Posts: 331	I'd take that gun money an buy a plane ticket out of Dodge.

September 5, 2013, 06:14 AM	#12
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	Out of the two guns I prefer the XD. The Sigma, while reliable, has a pretty poor trigger in my experience. Additionally, the .40 can be a bit snappy to shoot so if you are a little recoil shy, the 9mm is a little easier to shoot. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

September 5, 2013, 08:54 AM	#13
Bozz10mm Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2013 Location: Central Texas Posts: 287	Go with the XD 9mm.

September 5, 2013, 09:06 AM	#14
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	If you're going to be moving around between countries, also consider the legality of probable destinations. For example, if you're going some place where .40 or .45 is not going to be legal, stick with something that is not only legal where you are, but where you will be. Also pay attention to finishes and other upkeep issues. Search the internet for issues with rust, for example. I'm (sadly) ignorant about the climate in Guatemala and Brazil, but I can only imagine that it's hot and humid, and if this is to be CC'd, you'll want something as rust-resistant as possible. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

September 5, 2013, 01:17 PM	#15
Erikbal Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2012 Location: Olean, NY Posts: 375	Re: I need some advice to choose between 2 guns. I also say go with the 9mm XD. The sigmas are said to be very reliable, but the triggers leave much to be desired.

September 5, 2013, 04:26 PM	#16
3.Shot.Group. Junior member Join Date: June 24, 2013 Posts: 208	I'd go with a sawed off double barrel in 12 gauge.

September 5, 2013, 04:39 PM	#17
Viper99 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2010 Location: CT Posts: 846	bt380 has the best advice but if you can't do that, may I suggest that since you also mentioned XD, why not the XDm 3.8 9mm? It comes with both a 13 round and a 19 round mag just in case you need that many. Its nice to know that if you need it, you can have 19 +1 or if you need to carry it concealed, its still 13+1.

September 5, 2013, 07:46 PM	#19
power5 Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2012 Posts: 247	Surprised the more plentiful glock is so much more since a G19 is only like $50 more than a XD9. I would take the XD9. Actually. Rent a couple body guards for a day and go buy a black market DE. All the drug lords and arms dealers brandish those. Could probably pick one up for a decent price. And if you do have to draw, the BG will simply cower in fear and run away from the scary american BA.

September 6, 2013, 12:08 AM	#21
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	Being TDY in Panama in the early 80s for a week, the humidity felt like Houston TX.

September 6, 2013, 12:25 AM	#22
3.Shot.Group. Junior member Join Date: June 24, 2013 Posts: 208	If you get the sawed off 12 gauge you'll never have feeding problems, and accuracy won't be an issue. Trust me, the day that you have to pull out a pistol to defend yourself against a car jacker will be the day that you'll wish you had a sawed off double barreled shotgun.

September 6, 2013, 01:10 AM	#23
Yosh Junior Member Join Date: September 4, 2013 Posts: 5	Transporting a gun every time you move would be a headache, Since guns can be sold like cookies in these countries Id rather sell it and then buy the one available in the next country if I feel I need it. Actually the sawed Shotgun sounds really good to me, but as I said before Im no expert in the matter. What kind of shotgun would have to be to get the posible to handle length? I have seen that usually shotguns carry bullets all the way to the front, is there any kind of Giant 12 Gauge revolver like the grenade launchers system? Sorry for my ignorance. That would be a hell of a solution in several countries were at least 2 assailants get to your car window. Here they imported a taurus revolver called the judge that uses .410 or some shotgun similar load but they get sold so much its REALLY hard to get one.

September 6, 2013, 01:47 AM	#24
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Ive owned XD's and Sigma VE's, both in 40 cal. Personally, I preferred the S&W. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

September 6, 2013, 02:10 AM	#25
3.Shot.Group. Junior member Join Date: June 24, 2013 Posts: 208	They make these things, but they're really expensive. So what you'd want to do is start with a coach gun, and saw it off, or have it sawed off, and the stock cut down to a pistol grip. You probably wouldn't want one in a 12 gauge, due to the recoil, but a 20 gauge with 8" barrels would work very well at PBR.