cva kentucky rifle question

cowboys1062 · March 28, 2015, 02:47 AM

A friend of mine gave me a caplock CVA Kentucky Rifle that had set in his gunsafe for the past 30 years. He only shoots centerfire firearms and never has been interested in blackpowder shooting.His dad owned the rifle for years and ended up passing it down to his son who in turn put it away in his safe never to see daylight. I offered to buy the rifle from him on several occasions. The other day again I offered to buy it and to my surprise he told me that it deserved a good home and just gave it to me. So my friends father owned it for several years and then it set in my friends safe for another 30 years. I dont know how old this gun is. I will tell you what I do know: Its a CVA Fullstock Kentucky Rifle in 45 Cal. The barrel and lock has a nice brown patina look to it. The other furniture is Brass which has aged to a mellow gold color. A single trigger and no patchbox. The inside of the bore is mirror shiney bright.Looks like it hasnt been fired much. The stock is a two piece stock with a narrow thin brass devider holding it together. I dont know where the barrel was made. There is no made in Spain or made in U.S.A. on it. No proof marks either. The only markings on the barrel is on the left flat : Connecticut Valley Arms Inc. 45 Cal. with the serial number#00242. The barrel and tang are one piece. The barrel is secured in the stock by the tang bolt going through the stock and into the triggerplate and secured in the front by the nosecap. The nosecap has two screw holes underneath it. The screws go through the nosecap and through the stock and finally screwed into the barrel. No wedge keys or pins.The Tang and Nosecap secures the barrel in the stock real well nice and tight, no play. I will send picks when my son inlaw visits this week, He's going to show me how to post pics. From what I described, How old or what year do you think that this rifle could have been made?

Captchee · March 28, 2015, 08:40 AM

just a guess but i would say mid to early 1970's .
look close to the barrel they sometimes marked "Spain " back at the breech or under the barrel . that would place it mid to late 1970's
Since it’s a two piece stock , I would lean to it being an early Spanish made model vs. the very limited American made Kentucky’s

Hawg · March 28, 2015, 09:19 AM

Traditions still sells the guns with two piece stocks, they're made by Ardessa in Spain. It could have been a kit gun. They made the stock in two pieces to fit it into a smaller box.

**4V50 Gary** · March 28, 2015, 06:56 PM

I have a similar Spanish made gun with a two piece stock. Mine though came with a brass patchbox. I have since discarded the forearm and added a rib beneath the barrel. Now it's a halfstock.

cowboys1062 · March 28, 2015, 07:40 PM

I looked underneath the barrel down by the breech and every where else. There is no mark as to where the barrel was made.

swathdiver · March 28, 2015, 09:53 PM

Well, I didn't know CVA ever assembled or made the Kentucky in house, always thought they were from Spain. Judging from the serial it might have been the first year. My collection of CVA catalogs goes back to 1975 and yours as described was offered. Some time prior, the other Kentucky with the hideous brass plate was offered since at least 1972.

There's no collector value yet, shoot it and enjoy it, they are a hoot to shoot.

**4V50 Gary** · March 28, 2015, 10:27 PM

It is possible that if it was a kit, that your friend's father draw filed all the markings off the barrel. Still, those two piece stocked KY rifles are imported from Spain or Italy. I'm in favor of the former.

BTW, mine is 45 cal and has (methinks) a 34" bbl.

wogpotter · March 29, 2015, 08:51 AM

Some of the early CVA's were fitted with Green Mountain barrels I'm told.

Captchee · March 29, 2015, 09:56 AM

It should be noted I think that Connecticut Valley Arms has through the years been many different companies, none related to the modern CVA as we know it . The name has been used many times by a few different makers , dating to I believe the mid 19th century .

In the context of this rifle and maker ,Im not sure what barrel the early Kentucky’s carried . Only a small number were made in the US and none were made by CVA . CVA in the context that most know , was only an importer they never made any item to include the rifles stamped “made in USA” . those were also contracted out .

Jukar were the ones who first started this type of two piece stock with a joiner plate .
I have also seen Jukar “Spanish “ and BPI with brass bann’s which cover the joint .
I say “this type “ with the understanding that some original long rifles also carry two piece stocks . They however were joined differently then how these were done .

For a very long time Jukar ,was one of the major gun building firms in Spain and was marketing nearly the identical rifle , at the same time CVA began to market their Kentucky . As I understand it CVA collaborated with Jukar to produce the rifle , thus US production never really past a very small number “ less then maybe 100”. and only a very small production run of 1 piece stocks .
Jukar dropped from the market and concentrated more on exporting for CVA .
Today , Adesa produces the rifles under the same tooling

By your number , and again im just guessing because I have not found any documentation on CVA early numbers . But I would say possibly an early Spanish to late US production . If its Spanish it would IMO most likely be Jukar . Unknown if made in the US.

As to Value . IMO around 150 .00 now that being said , I just came from one of the largest muzzle loading shows here in the NW . this year I saw used CVA Kentucky’s selling for 250-300.00.
I even saw one vender who had a ludicrous price of 700.00. I about fell over LOL
By the end of the first day those 250-300 offerings were for the most part gone.

When it comes to the stamping “spain” not being there .
Here is what I think maybe the reasoning .
Consider that for the most part importation of muzzle loading rifles had basically ceased prior to the later 1960’s .
The rifles just were not sought after and the folks who did want them , found that there were originals to be had for next to nothing. There just was very little value and no real collector market .
Thus we should Thank those like Hanson and Shum way ,Pope and others who say a need to collect and preserve the originals .

Anyway , if one looks at these early imports, even those marked “spain” there are no proof markings . Where those marked today do . This is do to a change in exportation and gun manufacturing laws .
IE where laws applied to Center fire manufacturing , they were not being applied to muzzle loading . As the market grew the first thing that we see happening is the country of origin being stamped “ Spain , Japan ,India, Italy “ then we start to see the proof marks being used , depending on the country required for exportation.

In closing , with all being said , most of those rifle , I have came across , were very good accurate shooters , even though they were cheaply made .
I would expect you to ,over time , see issues with the springs in the lock and if it’s a cap lock probably issues with the drum bolster loosening up . Both these were common issues CVA had .
If you don’t like the two piece stock , a 1 piece can be made for it , I do many restocks of those rifles each year .

Anyway that’s my take on it . Hope it helps some

FrontierGander · March 29, 2015, 11:03 AM

No cva ever was fitted with a GM barrel.

The early mountain rifles like the one I have coming is is stamped made in USA and they used the Douglas barrels for less than 2 years before switched to the spanish made barrels.

Captchee · March 29, 2015, 02:36 PM

i would agree , no GM barrel unless it was a replacment .

cowboys1062 · March 29, 2015, 10:21 PM

Thanks for all the replys. I will continue to research the rifle and see if I can find some more information on her. I will send pics as soon as I figure out how to. I know it probably isnt worth much but that does not matter to me. She's a keeper and Im going to shoot the heck out of her. The guns been laying around way way to long without being shot. Im going to bring her back to life.

March 28, 2015, 02:47 AM	#1
cowboys1062 Member Join Date: January 24, 2015 Posts: 35	cva kentucky rifle question A friend of mine gave me a caplock CVA Kentucky Rifle that had set in his gunsafe for the past 30 years. He only shoots centerfire firearms and never has been interested in blackpowder shooting.His dad owned the rifle for years and ended up passing it down to his son who in turn put it away in his safe never to see daylight. I offered to buy the rifle from him on several occasions. The other day again I offered to buy it and to my surprise he told me that it deserved a good home and just gave it to me. So my friends father owned it for several years and then it set in my friends safe for another 30 years. I dont know how old this gun is. I will tell you what I do know: Its a CVA Fullstock Kentucky Rifle in 45 Cal. The barrel and lock has a nice brown patina look to it. The other furniture is Brass which has aged to a mellow gold color. A single trigger and no patchbox. The inside of the bore is mirror shiney bright.Looks like it hasnt been fired much. The stock is a two piece stock with a narrow thin brass devider holding it together. I dont know where the barrel was made. There is no made in Spain or made in U.S.A. on it. No proof marks either. The only markings on the barrel is on the left flat : Connecticut Valley Arms Inc. 45 Cal. with the serial number#00242. The barrel and tang are one piece. The barrel is secured in the stock by the tang bolt going through the stock and into the triggerplate and secured in the front by the nosecap. The nosecap has two screw holes underneath it. The screws go through the nosecap and through the stock and finally screwed into the barrel. No wedge keys or pins.The Tang and Nosecap secures the barrel in the stock real well nice and tight, no play. I will send picks when my son inlaw visits this week, He's going to show me how to post pics. From what I described, How old or what year do you think that this rifle could have been made?

March 28, 2015, 06:56 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	I have a similar Spanish made gun with a two piece stock. Mine though came with a brass patchbox. I have since discarded the forearm and added a rib beneath the barrel. Now it's a halfstock. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

March 28, 2015, 07:40 PM	#5
cowboys1062 Member Join Date: January 24, 2015 Posts: 35	cva kentucky rifle I looked underneath the barrel down by the breech and every where else. There is no mark as to where the barrel was made.

March 28, 2015, 09:53 PM	#6
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Well, I didn't know CVA ever assembled or made the Kentucky in house, always thought they were from Spain. Judging from the serial it might have been the first year. My collection of CVA catalogs goes back to 1975 and yours as described was offered. Some time prior, the other Kentucky with the hideous brass plate was offered since at least 1972. There's no collector value yet, shoot it and enjoy it, they are a hoot to shoot. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

March 28, 2015, 10:27 PM	#7
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	It is possible that if it was a kit, that your friend's father draw filed all the markings off the barrel. Still, those two piece stocked KY rifles are imported from Spain or Italy. I'm in favor of the former. BTW, mine is 45 cal and has (methinks) a 34" bbl. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

March 28, 2015, 08:40 AM	#2
Captchee Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2013 Posts: 439	just a guess but i would say mid to early 1970's . look close to the barrel they sometimes marked "Spain " back at the breech or under the barrel . that would place it mid to late 1970's Since it’s a two piece stock , I would lean to it being an early Spanish made model vs. the very limited American made Kentucky’s

March 28, 2015, 09:19 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Traditions still sells the guns with two piece stocks, they're made by Ardessa in Spain. It could have been a kit gun. They made the stock in two pieces to fit it into a smaller box.

March 29, 2015, 08:51 AM	#8
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Some of the early CVA's were fitted with Green Mountain barrels I'm told. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

March 29, 2015, 09:56 AM	#9
Captchee Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2013 Posts: 439	It should be noted I think that Connecticut Valley Arms has through the years been many different companies, none related to the modern CVA as we know it . The name has been used many times by a few different makers , dating to I believe the mid 19th century . In the context of this rifle and maker ,Im not sure what barrel the early Kentucky’s carried . Only a small number were made in the US and none were made by CVA . CVA in the context that most know , was only an importer they never made any item to include the rifles stamped “made in USA” . those were also contracted out . Jukar were the ones who first started this type of two piece stock with a joiner plate . I have also seen Jukar “Spanish “ and BPI with brass bann’s which cover the joint . I say “this type “ with the understanding that some original long rifles also carry two piece stocks . They however were joined differently then how these were done . For a very long time Jukar ,was one of the major gun building firms in Spain and was marketing nearly the identical rifle , at the same time CVA began to market their Kentucky . As I understand it CVA collaborated with Jukar to produce the rifle , thus US production never really past a very small number “ less then maybe 100”. and only a very small production run of 1 piece stocks . Jukar dropped from the market and concentrated more on exporting for CVA . Today , Adesa produces the rifles under the same tooling By your number , and again im just guessing because I have not found any documentation on CVA early numbers . But I would say possibly an early Spanish to late US production . If its Spanish it would IMO most likely be Jukar . Unknown if made in the US. As to Value . IMO around 150 .00 now that being said , I just came from one of the largest muzzle loading shows here in the NW . this year I saw used CVA Kentucky’s selling for 250-300.00. I even saw one vender who had a ludicrous price of 700.00. I about fell over LOL By the end of the first day those 250-300 offerings were for the most part gone. When it comes to the stamping “spain” not being there . Here is what I think maybe the reasoning . Consider that for the most part importation of muzzle loading rifles had basically ceased prior to the later 1960’s . The rifles just were not sought after and the folks who did want them , found that there were originals to be had for next to nothing. There just was very little value and no real collector market . Thus we should Thank those like Hanson and Shum way ,Pope and others who say a need to collect and preserve the originals . Anyway , if one looks at these early imports, even those marked “spain” there are no proof markings . Where those marked today do . This is do to a change in exportation and gun manufacturing laws . IE where laws applied to Center fire manufacturing , they were not being applied to muzzle loading . As the market grew the first thing that we see happening is the country of origin being stamped “ Spain , Japan ,India, Italy “ then we start to see the proof marks being used , depending on the country required for exportation. In closing , with all being said , most of those rifle , I have came across , were very good accurate shooters , even though they were cheaply made . I would expect you to ,over time , see issues with the springs in the lock and if it’s a cap lock probably issues with the drum bolster loosening up . Both these were common issues CVA had . If you don’t like the two piece stock , a 1 piece can be made for it , I do many restocks of those rifles each year . Anyway that’s my take on it . Hope it helps some

March 29, 2015, 11:03 AM	#10
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	No cva ever was fitted with a GM barrel. The early mountain rifles like the one I have coming is is stamped made in USA and they used the Douglas barrels for less than 2 years before switched to the spanish made barrels. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

March 29, 2015, 02:36 PM	#11
Captchee Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2013 Posts: 439	i would agree , no GM barrel unless it was a replacment .

March 29, 2015, 10:21 PM	#12
cowboys1062 Member Join Date: January 24, 2015 Posts: 35	Early CVA Kentucky Rifle Thanks for all the replys. I will continue to research the rifle and see if I can find some more information on her. I will send pics as soon as I figure out how to. I know it probably isnt worth much but that does not matter to me. She's a keeper and Im going to shoot the heck out of her. The guns been laying around way way to long without being shot. Im going to bring her back to life.