Took a gamble on a P08 Luger

Skarekrow88 · August 4, 2021, 05:04 PM

Went to a gun store I had never been to before that had a dozen or so Lugers of different types and conditions but one in particular caught my eye. The tag said “WWII Era P08 9mm $1999” I don’t know much about Lugers but upon inspecting it I saw “byf” on the top of the forward toggle link and a “42” on the top of the receiver which told me at the very least those parts appeared to be WWII era. I talked with the man behind the counter who said he believed it was a German Arsenal rebuild during the war. I asked what their bottom dollar on it was and another busy and occupied salesman across the room said $1500 OTD which I agreed to because I’ve always wanted a Luger and decided it was worth the risk. Once I got in the truck and looked at the bill of sale and receipt I saw they both read $1,050 so either he made a mistake or I misheard him. Either way I was fine with it.

The barrel, receiver, and frame are all marked “8596” so I knew those matched. The frame also has what looks to be a cursive “i” under the serial number, not sure what that means. The under side of the barrel is marked “CAI ST ALB VT” so I guess it’s a century import from a while back. The toggle link, forward toggle link, and breech block are all marked “13” so those match each other but not the rest of the gun obviously

Other mismatched parts include:
the locking bolt marked with an “86”
the trigger sideplate marked with a “01”
the trigger bar marked with a “19”
the extractor marked with a “14”

There looks like what used to be three proof marks on the right side of the receiver that appear to have been peened off or something. However, I found two faint waffenamts on the barrel, one of which appears to have a “135” under it and another more pronounced one on the breech block so that was encouraging.

It came with a “MAUSER” marked magazine with a black plastic floorplate which I assume to be later production. Luckily my grandfather gave me an original spare magazine with an aluminum floorplate clearly marked with serial number “+” and waffenamt from when he had a couple of Lugers.

After disassembly I found it was missing it’s extractor spring and hold open latch and spring but I ordered a reproduction replacement extractor spring. I decided to hold off on the latch until I got some advice on who to go to for that. I also did the “tuning fork” test on the receiver which gave the desired results so that was good. Beyond that I’m not sure what else I can discern from it without help from someone more knowledgeable on these things.

Can anyone tell me more about this pistol? How did I do? Don’t sugarcoat it, I know I took a gamble so if it’s just a shooter as I suspect then that’s fine with me.

Skarekrow88 · August 4, 2021, 05:04 PM

Two more pictures.

**4V50 Gary** · August 4, 2021, 05:23 PM

All mismatched parts. At least you have a shooter.

highpower3006 · August 4, 2021, 08:08 PM

The Germans serialized their firearms in blocks of 10,000. When they got to 9999 in the first block of numbers, the next gun in sequence would be 0001a and so on. Your pistol frame with a "i" suffix was made in the tenth block of serial numbers for that year. I believe I see a "X" on the frame after the serial number, which means you have one of the many Russian Capture firearms that were reworked by the Soviets after the war. Your magazine looks like a WWII manufactured one and should be serial numbered although the chances of it matching the gun is pretty rare.

At $1050, I believe you paid all the money for it, but even mismatched shooter grade Lugers are going up in value and that is about what they are going for nowadays. Lugers shoot best with 124 grain ammo, 115 grain tends to cause failures to eject.

Several years ago I was fortunate to buy a 1937 S/42 Luger with matching numbers including the magazine. Along with the pistol I got a WWII holster, spare magazine and loading tool. It shows some finish wear, but mechanically it is perfect.

Skarekrow88 · August 5, 2021, 01:20 AM

Thanks for that info highpower3006. I find the fact it’s a Russian capture fascinating. That’s a very nice example you have.

I found two more “X” markings after more examination. One is inside the frame and the other on the under side of the receiver only visible when disassembled. Are these further evidence of it being a Russian capture or do they mean something else?

highpower3006 · August 5, 2021, 09:38 AM

Those are just inspectors marks. The "X" after the serial is supposed to actually be stylized crossed rifles, but they mostly just look like an X.

Jim Watson · August 5, 2021, 11:35 AM

A real Russian contract Luger, not a Soviet capture, has discernible Mosin Nagants on the receiver ring.
https://laststandonzombieisland.file...es-crossed.jpg

**44 AMP** · August 5, 2021, 11:46 AM

Do not shoot 9mm +P or any hotter load. I would also not use "NATO Spec" ammo.

"refinished during the way" is almost as common a story as "taken from a Nazi officer". Some guns certainly were, but not as many as there are stories...

According to the STANDARD CATALOG OF LUGER (Davis 2006) your gun appears to be a Mauser byf 42 model.

Made for sale to the German military at the Mauser Werke, Oberndorf.

Quantity made is estimated at 89,000. The book lists it as "uncommon".

Safety should be the serrated type, upper position should be marked "Gesichert". Safe is the lower position.

Extractor should say "Geladen" on the left side.

Grips should be checkered walnut.

Original magazines for this model should have blued extruded steel body and black plastic base (aluminum on 41 models) and should be marked "fxo" and "P.08" and are not otherwise proofed or numbered to the gun.

Finish should be a salt blue, on all parts. No straw finish was used on this model.

Serial # range is from #500 to the "m" block.

Value in 2006 was Poor $750, Fair $1,000, Good $1850, VG $2,000 and EXC
was $2,500.

Bit over $1000 for a mismatched P.08 in decent condition in 2021? I'd say you got a decent deal compared to general going rates today.

Skarekrow88 · August 5, 2021, 01:37 PM

Thanks 44 AMP. Mine does say “GELADEN” and “Gesichert”
One of the grips faintly says “MADE IN ITALY” (possibly “ITALI”) on the inside of one of the panels.

The magazine it came with is on the left in the pictures, blued body and black plastic floorplate but no markings other than the Mauser logo on the back, is this a period correct magazine or is it a later production?. The other is the original spare magazine my grandfather gave me that goes to Luger “8991”

highpower3006 · August 5, 2021, 03:55 PM

The blued magazine with the plastic bottom is a commercial model. Magazine 8991l was the spare mag for the gun with the same number, denoted by the “+”. By the time your P08 was made the issue mags had a black base and were made by the manufacturer with the code fxo.

blchandl2 · August 5, 2021, 07:51 PM

I will add that your left grip panel has been broken just below the safety lever. This is somewhat common and easy to do when trying remove the grip panel.

One other piece of advice is to not dry fire this pistol. The firing pins are prone to breaking. Make sure to use snap caps.

Skarekrow88 · August 5, 2021, 08:43 PM

Quote:

I will add that your left grip panel has been broken just below the safety lever.

Ouch, didn't even realize that. I suppose it could always be worse.

Quote:

One other piece of advice is to not dry fire this pistol. The firing pins are prone to breaking. Make sure to use snap caps.

I figured as much, I dry fired it once by accident trying to test whether the safety worked or not. I've used snap caps since. The click sounds a little weak to me, might need a new striker spring.

blchandl2 · August 6, 2021, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarekrow88

Ouch, didn't even realize that. I suppose it could always be worse.

I figured as much, I dry fired it once by accident trying to test whether the safety worked or not. I've used snap caps since. The click sounds a little weak to me, might need a new striker spring.

Both of mine sound weak yet function just fine. Wait until you take it to the range before changing.

Lavan · August 6, 2021, 10:31 PM

Most Lugers click 'mushy."

Pumpkin · August 9, 2021, 11:46 AM

Congratulations!
You are now the owner of the coolest, sexiest pistol ever made.
Ever since I was a little boy in the 1960's I have wanted a Luger.

PzGren · August 10, 2021, 06:03 AM

The Mauser marked magazine is a post war 1970s model as they came with the 06/70 that Mauser made on the machinery returned by Switzerland. The grips are very obviously replacement grips since the original checkering pattern was different and the Russians fitted black bakelite grips to almost all captured P.08s.

The original DWM manual " Die Selbstlade-Pistole Parabellum" gives a velocity of 1017 fps for a 124gr bullet.

I have owned quite a few Parabellum Pistolen over the years and am hanging on to only two of them. Both are excellent shooters and have good triggers. A well fitted trigger bar is required for that. The slide hold open latch is the part that I have seen broken most often.

1942 Mauser VOPO P.08, all matching but with a Czech replacement barrel that was made in the factory that made P.38 barrels in WWII

Postwar Mauser 06/70 in 9 Para

tarhealcracker · August 11, 2021, 07:25 AM

Years ago I had an all matching parts 1938 Luger. I never could get it to feed reliably till I discovered NATO. ammo. I finally sold it when I discovered that the chrome plating job that some previous owner had done had trashed the value of the pistol.
I agree that the Luger is the single most "business Like" pistol ever made.

highpower3006 · August 11, 2021, 08:50 AM

I love the way they look. I only have a few at this time and with what they bring in the market, it's difficult to find one at a reasonable price.

1937 S/42 (pictured above in post #4)

1920 DWM P08 issued to the Berlin Police, Central District. It has definitely seen some use over the last 100+years.

1916 DWM LP08, another gun that has seen some use in the last 105 years:

Jim Watson · August 11, 2021, 09:11 AM

Ooh, ooh, you have der Trommelmagazin, too.

Lavan · August 11, 2021, 11:26 AM

Kinda sad story but educational.

Back in the late 60s I got a Navy Luger at a local gun shop that had bought an estate.
I was young and stupid and also didn't know anything about Lugers.
At the same time, I had a friend ...who had a friend.... who was pretty advanced as a Luger collector.
He wanted me to show it to the friend of the friend.
I did.
He picked on it as a reblue and thus nearly worthless.
Stupid me returned it to the gun shop where it was PROMPTLY sold to someone with a brain.

Friend of friend asked if I still had it.
He went pale when I told him the story.

He rushed to the gun shop to buy my big dumb mistake.
It was SOLD!

YAY!

Sometimes, knocking a gun in order to get it doesn't work.

This would never happen today. Youth and ignorance stick together.

Jim Watson · August 11, 2021, 01:11 PM

I ran into that. I got interested in a S&W New Model No 3 and admired one that had been reblued with a polish more like Colt than Smith. A top break Python? Same color, anyhow.
But one of those "5% original finish in protected locations" collectors discouraged me, saying I could get a good original for the price. But I couldn't.

August 4, 2021, 05:04 PM	#1
Skarekrow88 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 332	Took a gamble on a P08 Luger Went to a gun store I had never been to before that had a dozen or so Lugers of different types and conditions but one in particular caught my eye. The tag said “WWII Era P08 9mm $1999” I don’t know much about Lugers but upon inspecting it I saw “byf” on the top of the forward toggle link and a “42” on the top of the receiver which told me at the very least those parts appeared to be WWII era. I talked with the man behind the counter who said he believed it was a German Arsenal rebuild during the war. I asked what their bottom dollar on it was and another busy and occupied salesman across the room said $1500 OTD which I agreed to because I’ve always wanted a Luger and decided it was worth the risk. Once I got in the truck and looked at the bill of sale and receipt I saw they both read $1,050 so either he made a mistake or I misheard him. Either way I was fine with it. The barrel, receiver, and frame are all marked “8596” so I knew those matched. The frame also has what looks to be a cursive “i” under the serial number, not sure what that means. The under side of the barrel is marked “CAI ST ALB VT” so I guess it’s a century import from a while back. The toggle link, forward toggle link, and breech block are all marked “13” so those match each other but not the rest of the gun obviously Other mismatched parts include: the locking bolt marked with an “86” the trigger sideplate marked with a “01” the trigger bar marked with a “19” the extractor marked with a “14” There looks like what used to be three proof marks on the right side of the receiver that appear to have been peened off or something. However, I found two faint waffenamts on the barrel, one of which appears to have a “135” under it and another more pronounced one on the breech block so that was encouraging. It came with a “MAUSER” marked magazine with a black plastic floorplate which I assume to be later production. Luckily my grandfather gave me an original spare magazine with an aluminum floorplate clearly marked with serial number “+” and waffenamt from when he had a couple of Lugers. After disassembly I found it was missing it’s extractor spring and hold open latch and spring but I ordered a reproduction replacement extractor spring. I decided to hold off on the latch until I got some advice on who to go to for that. I also did the “tuning fork” test on the receiver which gave the desired results so that was good. Beyond that I’m not sure what else I can discern from it without help from someone more knowledgeable on these things. Can anyone tell me more about this pistol? How did I do? Don’t sugarcoat it, I know I took a gamble so if it’s just a shooter as I suspect then that’s fine with me. __________________ "A life fought for others is a life worth living" Last edited by Skarekrow88; August 5, 2021 at 01:23 AM.

August 4, 2021, 05:04 PM	#2
Skarekrow88 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 332	Took a gamble on a P08 Luger Two more pictures. __________________ "A life fought for others is a life worth living"

August 4, 2021, 05:23 PM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	All mismatched parts. At least you have a shooter. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 5, 2021, 11:46 AM	#8
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,835	Do not shoot 9mm +P or any hotter load. I would also not use "NATO Spec" ammo. "refinished during the way" is almost as common a story as "taken from a Nazi officer". Some guns certainly were, but not as many as there are stories... According to the STANDARD CATALOG OF LUGER (Davis 2006) your gun appears to be a Mauser byf 42 model. Made for sale to the German military at the Mauser Werke, Oberndorf. Quantity made is estimated at 89,000. The book lists it as "uncommon". Safety should be the serrated type, upper position should be marked "Gesichert". Safe is the lower position. Extractor should say "Geladen" on the left side. Grips should be checkered walnut. Original magazines for this model should have blued extruded steel body and black plastic base (aluminum on 41 models) and should be marked "fxo" and "P.08" and are not otherwise proofed or numbered to the gun. Finish should be a salt blue, on all parts. No straw finish was used on this model. Serial # range is from #500 to the "m" block. Value in 2006 was Poor $750, Fair $1,000, Good $1850, VG $2,000 and EXC was $2,500. Bit over $1000 for a mismatched P.08 in decent condition in 2021? I'd say you got a decent deal compared to general going rates today. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 5, 2021, 01:37 PM	#9
Skarekrow88 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 332	Thanks 44 AMP. Mine does say “GELADEN” and “Gesichert” One of the grips faintly says “MADE IN ITALY” (possibly “ITALI”) on the inside of one of the panels. The magazine it came with is on the left in the pictures, blued body and black plastic floorplate but no markings other than the Mauser logo on the back, is this a period correct magazine or is it a later production?. The other is the original spare magazine my grandfather gave me that goes to Luger “8991” __________________ "A life fought for others is a life worth living"

August 4, 2021, 08:08 PM	#4
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	The Germans serialized their firearms in blocks of 10,000. When they got to 9999 in the first block of numbers, the next gun in sequence would be 0001a and so on. Your pistol frame with a "i" suffix was made in the tenth block of serial numbers for that year. I believe I see a "X" on the frame after the serial number, which means you have one of the many Russian Capture firearms that were reworked by the Soviets after the war. Your magazine looks like a WWII manufactured one and should be serial numbered although the chances of it matching the gun is pretty rare. At $1050, I believe you paid all the money for it, but even mismatched shooter grade Lugers are going up in value and that is about what they are going for nowadays. Lugers shoot best with 124 grain ammo, 115 grain tends to cause failures to eject. Several years ago I was fortunate to buy a 1937 S/42 Luger with matching numbers including the magazine. Along with the pistol I got a WWII holster, spare magazine and loading tool. It shows some finish wear, but mechanically it is perfect.

August 5, 2021, 01:20 AM	#5
Skarekrow88 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 332	Thanks for that info highpower3006. I find the fact it’s a Russian capture fascinating. That’s a very nice example you have. I found two more “X” markings after more examination. One is inside the frame and the other on the under side of the receiver only visible when disassembled. Are these further evidence of it being a Russian capture or do they mean something else? __________________ "A life fought for others is a life worth living" Last edited by Skarekrow88; August 5, 2021 at 01:29 AM.

August 5, 2021, 09:38 AM	#6
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	Those are just inspectors marks. The "X" after the serial is supposed to actually be stylized crossed rifles, but they mostly just look like an X.

August 5, 2021, 11:35 AM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	A real Russian contract Luger, not a Soviet capture, has discernible Mosin Nagants on the receiver ring. https://laststandonzombieisland.file...es-crossed.jpg

August 5, 2021, 03:55 PM	#10
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	The blued magazine with the plastic bottom is a commercial model. Magazine 8991l was the spare mag for the gun with the same number, denoted by the “+”. By the time your P08 was made the issue mags had a black base and were made by the manufacturer with the code fxo.

August 5, 2021, 07:51 PM	#11
blchandl2 Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2008 Location: TN Posts: 526	I will add that your left grip panel has been broken just below the safety lever. This is somewhat common and easy to do when trying remove the grip panel. One other piece of advice is to not dry fire this pistol. The firing pins are prone to breaking. Make sure to use snap caps.

August 6, 2021, 10:31 PM	#14
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	Most Lugers click 'mushy."

August 9, 2021, 11:46 AM	#15
Pumpkin Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2020 Location: Seguin Texas Posts: 425	Congratulations! You are now the owner of the coolest, sexiest pistol ever made. Ever since I was a little boy in the 1960's I have wanted a Luger.

August 10, 2021, 06:03 AM	#16
PzGren Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2001 Posts: 1,260	The Mauser marked magazine is a post war 1970s model as they came with the 06/70 that Mauser made on the machinery returned by Switzerland. The grips are very obviously replacement grips since the original checkering pattern was different and the Russians fitted black bakelite grips to almost all captured P.08s. The original DWM manual " Die Selbstlade-Pistole Parabellum" gives a velocity of 1017 fps for a 124gr bullet. I have owned quite a few Parabellum Pistolen over the years and am hanging on to only two of them. Both are excellent shooters and have good triggers. A well fitted trigger bar is required for that. The slide hold open latch is the part that I have seen broken most often. 1942 Mauser VOPO P.08, all matching but with a Czech replacement barrel that was made in the factory that made P.38 barrels in WWII Postwar Mauser 06/70 in 9 Para

August 11, 2021, 07:25 AM	#17
tarhealcracker Member Join Date: July 8, 2018 Posts: 59	Years ago I had an all matching parts 1938 Luger. I never could get it to feed reliably till I discovered NATO. ammo. I finally sold it when I discovered that the chrome plating job that some previous owner had done had trashed the value of the pistol. I agree that the Luger is the single most "business Like" pistol ever made.

August 11, 2021, 08:50 AM	#18
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	I love the way they look. I only have a few at this time and with what they bring in the market, it's difficult to find one at a reasonable price. 1937 S/42 (pictured above in post #4) 1920 DWM P08 issued to the Berlin Police, Central District. It has definitely seen some use over the last 100+years. 1916 DWM LP08, another gun that has seen some use in the last 105 years:

August 11, 2021, 09:11 AM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	Ooh, ooh, you have der Trommelmagazin, too.

August 11, 2021, 11:26 AM	#20
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	Kinda sad story but educational. Back in the late 60s I got a Navy Luger at a local gun shop that had bought an estate. I was young and stupid and also didn't know anything about Lugers. At the same time, I had a friend ...who had a friend.... who was pretty advanced as a Luger collector. He wanted me to show it to the friend of the friend. I did. He picked on it as a reblue and thus nearly worthless. Stupid me returned it to the gun shop where it was PROMPTLY sold to someone with a brain. Friend of friend asked if I still had it. He went pale when I told him the story. He rushed to the gun shop to buy my big dumb mistake. It was SOLD! YAY! Sometimes, knocking a gun in order to get it doesn't work. This would never happen today. Youth and ignorance stick together.

August 11, 2021, 01:11 PM	#21
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	I ran into that. I got interested in a S&W New Model No 3 and admired one that had been reblued with a polish more like Colt than Smith. A top break Python? Same color, anyhow. But one of those "5% original finish in protected locations" collectors discouraged me, saying I could get a good original for the price. But I couldn't.