Not impressed with North American Arms "No Holster In the Box" policy - Page 2

RsqVet · April 27, 2008, 09:52 PM

Go good folks, much ado about nothing.... it's not like they are out selling auto's without a magazine and then charging you for that... an essential part of the gun....

The gun use to have one package and a holster now it does not and you are out a whole 25 bucks to buy what you want..... and all of this over an acessory I'd bet a fair number of folks never used or wanted anyway....

I mean gosh I have boxes out in the garage of glock cleaning rods, plasitc cases and other misc parts / acessories given away with guns I have purchased and which I have no use for.

Frankly I have always been impressed that NAA offers decently made guns at such reasonable prices....

And what is the prez of the company supposed to do? beg your forgivness and send you free product so you don't rant online? You bought it, you ASSUMED and now you are angry? Get real man

jdnorris · April 29, 2008, 12:15 AM

RsqVet,

I think I made it perfectly clear that I failed to check or verify that what I expected to be there was actually there before leaving the store. That fault rests 100% on my shoulders.

My comments, of which I have an inalienable right to express (partly thanks to our guns

) is that nickel-and-dimeing, coupled with smart a$$ replies from the person in charge = no more purchases from me.

After doing some more digging in my records, I determined that the new 22mag cost about 50% more than my first and is in need of a $35+ expenditure to make it equal to the first. Sickening. :barf:

Take my info, rant, spitting fit, etc any way you like. I was ripped off and it'll be a -459.67 degree Fahrenheit day in Hades before I'll buy another product (gun or holster) from that flippant mouthed North American Arms owner.

I have now ordered 2 different holsters from independent shops for the gun. I couldn't tell which would be best by looking at then on the internet, and most could agree nothing works/acts like a 3"X3" online picture looks when you actually get it in your hands.

David
Lawrenceville, GA

DPris · April 29, 2008, 01:10 AM

David,
If you choose not to buy anything else from NAA, that's your business, but you were not ripped off.
Prices change, and packages change.
Even if NAA ever did include a holster, that in no way means they are irrevocably bound to include one with every purchase until the end of time.
You got one or two in the past, this time you didn't.
You didn't get ripped, and the company has not short-changed anybody.

Years ago, I used to get a cute little screwdriver with every adjustable-sighted Smith & Wesson I bought. They stopped that quite a while back, and prices have gone up dramatically on current guns.
Everybody who buys a new Smith at higher prices and doesn't get a 50-cent screwdriver today is getting ripped by S&W?
Not there, and not in your case, either. It's just the changing times.
Buy your guns and your holsters elsewhere, you won't be hurting anybody's feelings at NAA.
You have a right to your opinion, and to spend your money where you wish, but claiming the company somehow cheated you is just not realistic.
Denis

SimpleIsGood229 · April 29, 2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 88cupfan:
In consolation just let me say that this world today is far more complicated than God ever intended it to be.

I just wanted to chime in to say that, sadly, 88 is exactly right.

Alright, carry on.

Double Naught Spy · April 29, 2008, 06:29 AM

+1 DPris

jdnorris, since...

Quote:

I think I made it perfectly clear that I failed to check or verify that what I expected to be there was actually there before leaving the store. That fault rests 100% on my shoulders.

then you were not ripped off. It sounds like you were just a careless consumer who wants to complain at somebody about your mistake and when the company didn't coddle you, you starting posting your complaints here.

What did you expect them to say to you? Did you want them to say they were sorry that you were a poor consumer and chose a poor dealer? Are you also mad at every other manufacturer that doesn't include a holster with their gun?

As for the cost issue,

Quote:

After doing some more digging in my records, I determined that the new 22mag cost about 50% more than my first and is in need of a $35+ expenditure to make it equal to the first. Sickening.

you are the consumer who purchased the gun. If you were worried about cost relative to earlier purchases, you should have not purchased again.

This is once again, an issue of you not being a good consumer when it comes to making the purchase. The fault isn't with NAA if you made a purchase you did not have to make and you spent more money than you wanted to spend.

Richard b · April 30, 2008, 09:57 AM

+1 dpris
It appears this issue has been solved. The time one of my minis needed repairs, it was done smoothly and properly.

Disclaimer: I'm a fan of NAA products; but receive no remuneration for it.

jdnorris · May 2, 2008, 11:17 PM

Double Naught Spy,

My first post declared that I was 100% at fault for assuming that a holster was included. I am however not at fault for North American Arms holsters being rarer than 3ft tall green men in Georgia.

I finally found a holster locally and had it re-sewn (small change) by a shoe/boot repair store in my town. I had either visited or called every North American Arms dealer within 50 miles of my home with no luck in finding one. North American Arms removed the holster from the kit, and North American Arms dealers don't carry them. Bad business. North American Arms is cheap, and I'm calling then so.

:barf:

David

Double Naught Spy · May 3, 2008, 06:37 AM

So you joined TFL and made your first posts to tell us how unhappy you were about your lack of consumer prowess and complain how nobody coddled you to make it right. Got it.

So holsters are rare where you are? Big deal. Buy them on the internet or out of catalogs like many folks. You aren't the only one who isn't surrounded by the parts and accessories of products you like.

DPris · May 3, 2008, 12:56 PM

JD,
Your argument that NAA is "cheap" over this holster not being included issue is absurd.
I've had to look around the country (in one way or another) for leather to fit several of my guns that wasn't stocked regularly locally.
Those little NAA products are simply not high-volume sellers, and most dealers don't like to retain inventory that doesn't move in the way of accessories. It ties up both capital & display space, and there might be a whole three-dollar profit margin for a stocking dealer on a typical NAA holster.
With costs rising everywhere, NAA choosing to not include a holster is not cheap, it's just a matter of business.

Either the NAA gun you bought fills a need & a niche for you, or it's a toy. If it fills a need, you suck up your disappointment & do what it takes to support that gun and that need, and you move on. If it's a toy, then by all means let your grief overwhelm you and find something else to play with.

I own two NAA revolvers & both were carried at various points on the job when I was still a working man. I had to look around for holsters for them before I could do so. No big deal, I waited till I found what I needed, like every other gun & holster combination I've ever bought.

Sales packages change. No company owes you the same exact combination of items that were included in ANY purchase you made with them from inception to eternity. Every business has the right to change the contents of a sales package as they deem necessary.

Things like the cleaning rod & screwdriver that used to come standard with Smiths were dropped long ago because a huge number of buyers (me included) never used them, and S&W simply decided to cut costs. There were some who thought it was a shame those accessories were no longer included, but got over it in the greater scheme of things. Managing costs is an everyday business reality in any operation that makes or sells to stay in business.

Your posts are the equivalent of saying "I bought a Smith revolver 15 years ago & it came with a screwdriver. I bought one last week & it didn't. I emailed the company president and he said 'We can't please everybody', which I take as a flippant lack of concern for customers, and I had to go buy a screwdriver to adjust my sights with before I could carry my new gun. On top of which, they had the gall to RAISE PRICES in the past 15 years!!! If this is the way this CHEAP company operates, I'm not buying any more of their products!"

Nuisance for you? Apparently a huge one. Cheap company? Not hardly.
NAA is a relatively small outfit, I've been to their plant. You will not find a wide range of accessories to fit their guns at any gunshop, sales don't justify using the limited space a dealer has in place of items that do move.
When you buy a low-volume fringe gun, you have to expect a little more effort in locating support gear for it.

I can't find leather locally for my Bond or ADC derringers, have to order from the makers or go aftermarket special order. They could include leather with each gun, but they'd have to raise unit pricing to cover it. The holster they include might not be the type I want, and I'd still have to buy another one. People already gripe over "high" prices of today's guns.

This is nothing more than NAA making a cost/benefit decision to drop the included holster (for however long a period of time they were doing it) to hold costs down. In no way does that make the company "cheap".

You could have ordered direct from NAA immediately after you discovered the lack of a holster in the box & had a holster to fit your gun in 10 days or less, without all the time & hassle involved in chasing around locally.

Denis

SilentHitz · May 3, 2008, 02:35 PM

If you want one that bad...make it, it's not that hard, and the leather to make one that small won't be expensive. You can make it for however you want to carry too, belt, boot, ankle, pocket. Easy to get started...http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/index.asp

RsqVet · May 5, 2008, 04:04 PM

I still really want to know how the owner's remarks we flippant or offensive?

I mean what is the guy supposed to say?

IQ45 · May 17, 2008, 08:46 PM

I purchased the .22mag 1-5/8 new in 1989 and it came with both the holster and the zippered rug. Dad wanted the .22LR in the short barrel in 2000 and it came the same way. Both in cardboard boxes, which were ok.

Not sure, but believe the owner of NAA could have used a little more diplomacy in his response...canned verbiage: "we regret with rising costs tough decisions had to be made...how about a discount on one from us"
Just my 2c
IQ45

April 29, 2008, 12:15 AM	#27
jdnorris Junior Member Join Date: April 26, 2008 Posts: 6	Valid point, rsqvet RsqVet, I think I made it perfectly clear that I failed to check or verify that what I expected to be there was actually there before leaving the store. That fault rests 100% on my shoulders. My comments, of which I have an inalienable right to express (partly thanks to our guns ) is that nickel-and-dimeing, coupled with smart a$$ replies from the person in charge = no more purchases from me. After doing some more digging in my records, I determined that the new 22mag cost about 50% more than my first and is in need of a $35+ expenditure to make it equal to the first. Sickening. :barf: Take my info, rant, spitting fit, etc any way you like. I was ripped off and it'll be a -459.67 degree Fahrenheit day in Hades before I'll buy another product (gun or holster) from that flippant mouthed North American Arms owner. I have now ordered 2 different holsters from independent shops for the gun. I couldn't tell which would be best by looking at then on the internet, and most could agree nothing works/acts like a 3"X3" online picture looks when you actually get it in your hands. David Lawrenceville, GA

April 30, 2008, 09:57 AM	#31
Richard b Member Join Date: December 8, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 70	+1 dpris It appears this issue has been solved. The time one of my minis needed repairs, it was done smoothly and properly. Disclaimer: I'm a fan of NAA products; but receive no remuneration for it. __________________ Richard

May 3, 2008, 06:37 AM	#33
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	So you joined TFL and made your first posts to tell us how unhappy you were about your lack of consumer prowess and complain how nobody coddled you to make it right. Got it. So holsters are rare where you are? Big deal. Buy them on the internet or out of catalogs like many folks. You aren't the only one who isn't surrounded by the parts and accessories of products you like. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

April 27, 2008, 09:52 PM	#26
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	Go good folks, much ado about nothing.... it's not like they are out selling auto's without a magazine and then charging you for that... an essential part of the gun.... The gun use to have one package and a holster now it does not and you are out a whole 25 bucks to buy what you want..... and all of this over an acessory I'd bet a fair number of folks never used or wanted anyway.... I mean gosh I have boxes out in the garage of glock cleaning rods, plasitc cases and other misc parts / acessories given away with guns I have purchased and which I have no use for. Frankly I have always been impressed that NAA offers decently made guns at such reasonable prices.... And what is the prez of the company supposed to do? beg your forgivness and send you free product so you don't rant online? You bought it, you ASSUMED and now you are angry? Get real man

April 29, 2008, 01:10 AM	#28
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	David, If you choose not to buy anything else from NAA, that's your business, but you were not ripped off. Prices change, and packages change. Even if NAA ever did include a holster, that in no way means they are irrevocably bound to include one with every purchase until the end of time. You got one or two in the past, this time you didn't. You didn't get ripped, and the company has not short-changed anybody. Years ago, I used to get a cute little screwdriver with every adjustable-sighted Smith & Wesson I bought. They stopped that quite a while back, and prices have gone up dramatically on current guns. Everybody who buys a new Smith at higher prices and doesn't get a 50-cent screwdriver today is getting ripped by S&W? Not there, and not in your case, either. It's just the changing times. Buy your guns and your holsters elsewhere, you won't be hurting anybody's feelings at NAA. You have a right to your opinion, and to spend your money where you wish, but claiming the company somehow cheated you is just not realistic. Denis

May 2, 2008, 11:17 PM	#32
jdnorris Junior Member Join Date: April 26, 2008 Posts: 6	Double Naught Spy, My first post declared that I was 100% at fault for assuming that a holster was included. I am however not at fault for North American Arms holsters being rarer than 3ft tall green men in Georgia. I finally found a holster locally and had it re-sewn (small change) by a shoe/boot repair store in my town. I had either visited or called every North American Arms dealer within 50 miles of my home with no luck in finding one. North American Arms removed the holster from the kit, and North American Arms dealers don't carry them. Bad business. North American Arms is cheap, and I'm calling then so. :barf: David

May 3, 2008, 12:56 PM	#34
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	JD, Your argument that NAA is "cheap" over this holster not being included issue is absurd. I've had to look around the country (in one way or another) for leather to fit several of my guns that wasn't stocked regularly locally. Those little NAA products are simply not high-volume sellers, and most dealers don't like to retain inventory that doesn't move in the way of accessories. It ties up both capital & display space, and there might be a whole three-dollar profit margin for a stocking dealer on a typical NAA holster. With costs rising everywhere, NAA choosing to not include a holster is not cheap, it's just a matter of business. Either the NAA gun you bought fills a need & a niche for you, or it's a toy. If it fills a need, you suck up your disappointment & do what it takes to support that gun and that need, and you move on. If it's a toy, then by all means let your grief overwhelm you and find something else to play with. I own two NAA revolvers & both were carried at various points on the job when I was still a working man. I had to look around for holsters for them before I could do so. No big deal, I waited till I found what I needed, like every other gun & holster combination I've ever bought. Sales packages change. No company owes you the same exact combination of items that were included in ANY purchase you made with them from inception to eternity. Every business has the right to change the contents of a sales package as they deem necessary. Things like the cleaning rod & screwdriver that used to come standard with Smiths were dropped long ago because a huge number of buyers (me included) never used them, and S&W simply decided to cut costs. There were some who thought it was a shame those accessories were no longer included, but got over it in the greater scheme of things. Managing costs is an everyday business reality in any operation that makes or sells to stay in business. Your posts are the equivalent of saying "I bought a Smith revolver 15 years ago & it came with a screwdriver. I bought one last week & it didn't. I emailed the company president and he said 'We can't please everybody', which I take as a flippant lack of concern for customers, and I had to go buy a screwdriver to adjust my sights with before I could carry my new gun. On top of which, they had the gall to RAISE PRICES in the past 15 years!!! If this is the way this CHEAP company operates, I'm not buying any more of their products!" Nuisance for you? Apparently a huge one. Cheap company? Not hardly. NAA is a relatively small outfit, I've been to their plant. You will not find a wide range of accessories to fit their guns at any gunshop, sales don't justify using the limited space a dealer has in place of items that do move. When you buy a low-volume fringe gun, you have to expect a little more effort in locating support gear for it. I can't find leather locally for my Bond or ADC derringers, have to order from the makers or go aftermarket special order. They could include leather with each gun, but they'd have to raise unit pricing to cover it. The holster they include might not be the type I want, and I'd still have to buy another one. People already gripe over "high" prices of today's guns. This is nothing more than NAA making a cost/benefit decision to drop the included holster (for however long a period of time they were doing it) to hold costs down. In no way does that make the company "cheap". You could have ordered direct from NAA immediately after you discovered the lack of a holster in the box & had a holster to fit your gun in 10 days or less, without all the time & hassle involved in chasing around locally. Denis

May 3, 2008, 02:35 PM	#35
SilentHitz Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Ms. Posts: 1,984	If you want one that bad...make it, it's not that hard, and the leather to make one that small won't be expensive. You can make it for however you want to carry too, belt, boot, ankle, pocket. Easy to get started...http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/index.asp

May 5, 2008, 04:04 PM	#36
RsqVet Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Posts: 2,474	I still really want to know how the owner's remarks we flippant or offensive? I mean what is the guy supposed to say?

May 17, 2008, 08:46 PM	#37
IQ45 Junior Member Join Date: March 24, 2008 Posts: 7	I purchased the .22mag 1-5/8 new in 1989 and it came with both the holster and the zippered rug. Dad wanted the .22LR in the short barrel in 2000 and it came the same way. Both in cardboard boxes, which were ok. Not sure, but believe the owner of NAA could have used a little more diplomacy in his response...canned verbiage: "we regret with rising costs tough decisions had to be made...how about a discount on one from us" Just my 2c IQ45